Originally Posted by oneclickplus (Post 1935518)

Actually, individual rights is the reason blood was spilled in the American Revolution. My rights over my body do indeed trump what anyone else thinks I should do for the "whole".

As Ron DeSantis said: "if you believe the vaccine provides immunity, then act like it".

Don't worry about what others are doing.

Or, maybe you don't trust the vaccine. Well, neither do I.

Originally Posted by Bay Kid (Post 1934799)

If you had your shots by now you should be able to go back to normal. Those that haven't had their shots should just stay inside or take your chances, but don't penalize others.

Originally Posted by coffeebean (Post 1935757)

Yes, I see there are deaths but, as you said, very few compared to the amount of people who have been vaccinated.

Originally Posted by Aces4 (Post 1934829)

I won’t sugar coat my stance. This is America and this medical bullying needs to stop. Let’s all make a list of medical necessessities WE think should be implemented and then work to have them enforced, right?

If you want the vaccine, get it. Leave those alone who have decided against it.

I have a feeling if we could all see the actual, individual cases of each person who has died from Covid only and not those who were at death’s door you would be stunned by the actual numbers.

Originally Posted by OrangeBlossomBaby (Post 1935653)

If you are otherwise immunized (by way of having caught COVID-19 and already possessed of the antibodies against it), then you will pose no risk to me or anyone else at all, is how I'm understanding it.

However...

Most people have not been otherwise immunized. Most people in this country have not caught COVID-19 and had the opportunity to develop an immunity to it.

Virii mutate. That is a fact. They do this, it's a thing that they do. UNLESS they are not provided with a host in which they can acquire the materials necessary for the mutation.

If most people refuse to vaccinate AND those same people are not already immune, then the virus has lots and lots of hosts to pick from, to settle down and munch on those tasty mutation-creating kibbles and bits of humanity.

Once the virus mutates sufficiently, it can then go on and infect EVERYONE. Even the people who were already vaccinated.

That is why I feel people should be vaccinated, if they are able to do so. Because I really REALLY don't want to have to go through this again.

Originally Posted by Bucco (Post 1935663)

Just a post of support.

YOU are not "willfully blind"

Those who are simply anti government are the folks that have been blinded

Originally Posted by Two Bills (Post 1935680)

I am amazed at some of the stuff being bandied about regarding the worth of the vaccines.
Look at the decreasing numbers of Covid in the countries where the vacination program is going along well.
Then look at the countries where it is not.
Even to a dumb nut like me, it is obvious that vaccination is the way to go.
Check the situation at Dehli in India, and see what happens when the virus overwhelms the medical facilities.

Originally Posted by Dr Winston O Boogie jr (Post 1934857)

I would think that once everyone who wants to be vaccinate is, then we should be able to fully back to normal. We should be able to know this when people stop showing up for the vaccine.

I got my two shots well over a month go but I continue to wear a mask indoors in public spaces because from what I understand, I can still contract the virus and spread it to others. I'm assuming that there are still people that want to get vaccinated but haven't been able to do so yet, so I feel a responsibility toward my fellow humans.

But once every that wants to be vaccinated has been, I feel no responsibility to those who choose not to be vaccinated. I shouldn't have to live my life based on their choices.

Originally Posted by LiverpoolWalrus (Post 1935700)

The difference, and it's a biggie, is that the J&J jabs were causing severe short-term side effects that could not be ignored. I believe the poster is referring to potential but still not fully known consequences in the far term - for example, the ADE situation cited a few pages ago.

Originally Posted by Dr Winston O Boogie jr (Post 1934916)

I agree. There is a difference between dying from Covid and dying with Covid.

I have an uncle that died with Covid. He was 93 years old. He went into the hospital for a heart condition. After surgery he was sent to rehab where he fell and broke his hip. After that he was told that he had contracted Covid and he died shortly thereafter.

The problem is that who knows if the Coivd killed him or if his death was the result of his heart surgery or even the broken hip. I've heard many cases of elderly people dying shortly after breaking a hip.

In the case of my uncle, an autopsy was not performed so the cause of deaths was listed as Covid. But who knows? He was 93. He could have died of natural causes.

Originally Posted by OrangeBlossomBaby (Post 1934917)

I don't consider that a reason mostly because I fall squarely into that category of people, and I got vaccinated.

I'm younger (not even 60 yet). I worked at Publix from February 2020 til mid-December 2020, making more than minimum wage (I started at $13.20 and asked to transfer to a lower-paying department because me + stocking shelves = not a good match, final pay was $11/hour). I'm SURE I was exposed to it, there were enough people who refused to mask or social distance, who came in with the sniffles or just had something stuck in their throat and were coughing while I was bagging their groceries, etc. I'm sure if I had left there saying I was too worried about Covid, I could've taken advantage of the PEUC money and unemployment compensation.

But I left because I developed bursitis in my hip on top of osteoporosis and just can't work standing still for any length of time, and the job required that I do a lot of standing still. I was honest, and chose to not even try collecting unemployment. We definitely could've used the money but eh - not worth the headache filling out the forms.

But no, I don't count people who don't "want" to get vaccinated as a "reason" for not getting vaccinated.

Originally Posted by Swoop (Post 1935779)

Wow, so because you received a vaccine that you were very excited to get - that somehow makes you brave?!?

Originally Posted by Aces4 (Post 1934998)

As we walk on toward the goal of loss of individual freedom...:ohdear:

Originally Posted by OrangeBlossomBaby (Post 1935014)

No, that isn't a defense. Anyone can read anything on the internet to support what they WANT to do. I can find plenty of "research papers" (needs the quotation marks to emphasize how laughable that is, in context) to prove that vaccines are foolproof, that no one ever died as a direct result of a vaccine, and that the data proves that there will be 100% immunity if everyone is vaccinated.

The fact that you read this somewhere, it not a good or valid reason or defense in favor of vaccination. But you can find it on the internet.

When people say they researched something, on an internet forum, they USUALLY mean "I did a bing/google search and clicked the top 3 responses from the search" or "I skimmed the wikipedia entry" or "I read it on pubmed.

That's not research. I think people have forgotten what actual research is.

But no, reading somewhere that A=True is not a "defense" for not being vaccinated. However, I still acknowledge that they might be confused with what's true and what isn't true, and that would cause them some hesitation. I refer you back to point #1 for that.