Originally Posted by Bill14564 (Post 1935192)

That is false, I've pointed out in another thread it was false, I've provided the CDC links showing it was false, and yet you still make the assertion.

The CDC does not agree with your theory of where the 600,000 number comes from.

Originally Posted by PNaughton (Post 1935195)

If we get vaxxed and still can get it what's the point of getting vaccinated.

Originally Posted by Aces4 (Post 1935196)

Thank you for this clear, concise post which highlights all the issues with this new discrimination. Your assessment of the medical issues you’ve witnessed meshes completely with facts shared with me by medical professionals. I hope you remain well and safe in your occupation and life.:)

Originally Posted by Becca9800 (Post 1935191)

Someone asked if the others had spoke w any healthcare workers. I'm a 34-year registered nurse, certified nurse paralegal, and 22-year health care risk manager. I can tell you, the medical professional populace is equally divided on whether or not they will get the C19 vaccine(s). These are equally educated (at minimum, w the basic education required for licensure/certification) professionals. Because you don't agree with their decision should not allow you to consider either side ignorant. Instead, you must recognize that not all these educated, responsible people think alike. You trust them with your lives, but think you know what's best for them personally?

I can tell you that in my 300 bed acute care hospital, every one of the COVID + patients requiring a ventilator had one or more UNCONTROLLED underlying conditions, not one was a healthy adult, w or wo a controlled underlying condition, regardless of their age. My peers, while equally divided, have good rationale for getting or not getting the vaccine. I have researched the issue and I have elected to not get a vaccine despite being high risk (breast CA, fully-controlled insulin-dependent diabetes and coronary artery disease). I have my reasons and they are solid. My husband will take the vaccine. He respects my decision and I respect his.

And yes, our civil liberties are threatened, regardless of what you personally believe, or want to call it. Airlines, concert ticket sellers, cruise lines, football venues etc have already announced they are looking into adopting policy for their vaccinated v non-vaccinated patrons. I will eventually be forced to drive 1100 miles 2x/year when the airline won't sell me a ticket bc I'm not vaccinated. It's coming. Not a conspiracy theory, the bootleggers are already selling fake c19 vaccine cards.

Originally Posted by Bucco (Post 1935282)

That’s really creative on your part....after 4 years of openly admitting to that exact tactic, and witnessing still in senate.

Neither party, neither liberal or conservative, as a rule does what you accuse. Only exception is negotiating and discussing bills before votes, which we stopped doing in the senate a number of years ago.

Accusations of a general nature toward either party means you know nothing and thus just hurl general insults.

You are taking gaslighting to a new level.

Originally Posted by LiverpoolWalrus (Post 1935297)

There are two sides to this. I say "what's the point of getting vaccinated if infected people have a 80-90% chance of having nothing more than mild symptoms" (source is listed in my previous post about this, but it's pretty common knowledge.) And if you're vaccinated and get infected, you have a 95% chance of having nothing more than mild symptoms. I'm not sure an unapproved vaccine is worth only about a 5% upgrade in one's chances of an uneventful outcome.

On the other hand, by all accounts, the vaccine will assure you of a 0% chance of hospitalization or death. So that's a considerable argument in favor of the vaccine.

Originally Posted by LiverpoolWalrus (Post 1935300)

Then how on earth, and why, were we all led to believe the sky is falling? If Covid is nowhere near as dangerous as we've been led to believe, and we let our economy collapse and kept kids out of school anyway, how did the world let this misinformation propagate? Scratching my head and wondering WTF is going on.

Originally Posted by Swoop (Post 1935291)

Here is the link to the CDC’s website: Provisional Mortality Data — United States, 2020 | MMWR
It states that: “CDC’s National Vital Statistics System (NVSS) collects and reports annual mortality statistics using data from U.S. death certificates. Because of the time needed to investigate certain causes of death and to process and review data, final annual mortality data for a given year are typically released 11 months after the end of the calendar year.”

The CDC refers to the 2020 mortality rates as provisional. All you have to do is read...
And comprehend...

Originally Posted by Bill14564 (Post 1935312)

Then you do see that the CDC bases its data on death certificates and not on the projected deaths for 2020. While provisional, the data is based real data.

The links to the weekly death numbers and the explanation of the source of that data (that I will add later) say the same; the weekly death counts are based on actual death certificates, not projections.

There were approximately 600,000 additional deaths in 2020. The numbers are not finalized. If they turn out to be high by 20% then that would mean only 450,000 additional deaths. Even with a 20% over-count the number of additional deaths is staggering.

So again, what would account for over 400,000 additional deaths if not Covid?

Originally Posted by Swoop (Post 1935316)

Again, this is a direct quote from the CDC’s website: “This report provides an overview of provisional U.S. mortality data for 2020. Provisional death estimates can give researchers and policymakers an early indication of shifts in mortality trends and provide actionable information sooner than the final mortality data that are released approximately 11 months after the end of the data year.”
ESTIMATES that’s the CDC’s terminology, not mine.

Originally Posted by LiverpoolWalrus (Post 1934714)

What do you all think? If the percent of those vaccinated never exceeds, let's say, 50%*, and herd immunity for Covid is accomplished when 70% of the population is immune through either infection or the vaccine,** is it fair to say the anti-vaxxers will have thrown a serious wrench into the works?

Put another way, what is the defense, if any, for those who are criticized for being selfish and preventing herd immunity by refusing to get the vaccine?

*US Coronavirus Vaccine Progress Tracker | Vaccinations by State | USAFacts
**How Far Are We From COVID-19 Herd Immunity? – Reason.com

Originally Posted by LiverpoolWalrus (Post 1934714)

What do you all think? If the percent of those vaccinated never exceeds, let's say, 50%*, and herd immunity for Covid is accomplished when 70% of the population is immune through either infection or the vaccine,** is it fair to say the anti-vaxxers will have thrown a serious wrench into the works?

Put another way, what is the defense, if any, for those who are criticized for being selfish and preventing herd immunity by refusing to get the vaccine?

*US Coronavirus Vaccine Progress Tracker | Vaccinations by State | USAFacts
**How Far Are We From COVID-19 Herd Immunity? – Reason.com

Originally Posted by LiverpoolWalrus (Post 1934714)

What do you all think? If the percent of those vaccinated never exceeds, let's say, 50%*, and herd immunity for Covid is accomplished when 70% of the population is immune through either infection or the vaccine,** is it fair to say the anti-vaxxers will have thrown a serious wrench into the works?

Put another way, what is the defense, if any, for those who are criticized for being selfish and preventing herd immunity by refusing to get the vaccine?

*US Coronavirus Vaccine Progress Tracker | Vaccinations by State | USAFacts
**How Far Are We From COVID-19 Herd Immunity? – Reason.com