Originally Posted by tuccillo (Post 1944871)

I thought the 500K number included part of 2021?

Originally Posted by Gulfcoast (Post 1944457)

Members of my household have been going to their service industry jobs and dealing with the public face to face throughout this pandemic. Even when dentists and primary care physicians had closed their offices and weren't seeing patients, there were workers heading to their jobs at grocery stores, pharmacies, food service, gasoline stations - day in, day out.

That has helped to shape my perspective as to the risks of this virus. When you live with the risk daily, you get a pretty good idea how bad (or not so bad) things really are, at least in terms of yourself and your own family.

I'm the 55 year old mom who had healthy, active teens going to their jobs and schools plus activities. And, I was also the whippersnapper who was out running errands for her elderly mom. I haven't had the luxury of "staying safe" but thankfully we did manage to get through the better part of a year without a vaccine.

Now that the cases are falling, vulnerable people have gotten vaccinated and the actual risks of catching Covid have been greatly reduced we are now supposed to run out and get vaccinated even though we have likely already had the virus, albeit mild cases of it?

Why?

Originally Posted by coffeebean (Post 1944585)

You ask "why"? There are many un-vaccinated people that are prime hosts for the virus to create more variants. Those variants have the ability to possibly render our current vaccines incapable of the protection they currently provide. It is all about mitigating the variants at this point, IMHO.

Originally Posted by kenoc7 (Post 1944890)

Why? Herd immunity and the common good.

Originally Posted by Bill14564 (Post 1944874)

Don't trust me, look at the data (# deaths by week).

Originally Posted by Gulfcoast (Post 1944905)

A person with natural immunity doesn't need a vaccination to keep the herd safe.

Originally Posted by tuccillo (Post 1944913)

The NY Times reported 574K excess deaths through February 2021 for the time window of COVID-19. I had previously seen 339K (i.e. over 300K) for calendar year 2020.

I would guess that expected deaths for 2021 and a few years beyond might actually decrease because premature COVID-related deaths among the elderly.

Originally Posted by GrumpyOldMan (Post 1944916)

There is no natural immunity prior to getting COVID.

Originally Posted by Bill14564 (Post 1944923)

The NYT probably reported 574K Covid deaths; there are excess deaths beyond the number currently attributed to Covid. But I don't have a link to the NYT data and since it should have been based on something official like the CDC page, that's the data I worked with.

2021 deaths will still be affected by Covid, though far less than 2020. I agree that the yearly numbers will likely be lower for several years to come.

Originally Posted by Gulfcoast (Post 1944926)

Right. But if you've already had Covid and have recovered from it then you do have natural immunity to it. The workers who were out there all along have already been exposed countless times to the virus, they have likely had the virus already and recovered from it. Most people, thankfully, do not get that sick from it.

Originally Posted by tuccillo (Post 1944927)

No, the NYT article had 574K excess death, not COVID deaths, through February 2021. I didn't bookmark the link.

Originally Posted by kenoc7 (Post 1944887)

Yes, WEPOTUS was good on getting vaccine development going but he was pathetic on everything else holding super spreader events and not supporting sensible public health measures. If the US had used Sweden's approach the death numbers would have been exponentially higher.

Originally Posted by GrumpyOldMan (Post 1944929)

Agreed. I am not sure how this is related to the economic impact of COVID.

But, I agree with your statement, with the condition that having recovered from one variant of COVID does not necessarily give you immunity to any other - the same is true with Vaccines.

Originally Posted by MDLNB (Post 1944944)

Is the increase in suicides considered COVID related deaths?
Almost all the folks that died "from" or "with" COVID would presumably have a limited time left anyway. Not to be crass, but regardless of whether they died last year, this year or next year, they were not expected to live indefinitely. Out of curiosity, I wonder how many of those deaths were of seniors over 65 and how that will effect Social Security and Medicare.

Originally Posted by MDLNB (Post 1944944)

Is the increase in suicides considered COVID related deaths?
Almost all the folks that died "from" or "with" COVID would presumably have a limited time left anyway. Not to be crass, but regardless of whether they died last year, this year or next year, they were not expected to live indefinitely. Out of curiosity, I wonder how many of those deaths were of seniors over 65 and how that will effect Social Security and Medicare.

Originally Posted by MDLNB (Post 1944944)

Is the increase in suicides considered COVID related deaths?
Almost all the folks that died "from" or "with" COVID would presumably have a limited time left anyway. Not to be crass, but regardless of whether they died last year, this year or next year, they were not expected to live indefinitely. Out of curiosity, I wonder how many of those deaths were of seniors over 65 and how that will effect Social Security and Medicare.

Originally Posted by GrumpyOldMan (Post 1944916)

There is no natural immunity prior to getting COVID.

Originally Posted by MDLNB (Post 1945020)

Ah, but some have a natural RESISTANCE to it, perhaps. I doubt I am immune to the Flu, but I must have a resistance to it since I have never had it.

Originally Posted by Swoop (Post 1944331)

Sweden remained open during Covid. Bars, restaurants, schools, businesses, gyms etc. They initially had a spike in Covid deaths, but where are they today? The pundits all told us that they made a terrible mistake and their population would suffer because of their decision to remain open. The US shut schools, forced businesses to close, isolated families, trashed the economy and compounded the national debt. But we saved lives - right? Not based on the statistics we didn’t. Sweden has a population of 10.23 million and 14,267 Covid deaths. We have a population of 328.2 million and 584,000 Covid deaths. That’s .0014 of Sweden’s population and .0018 of the US population...

Originally Posted by Swoop (Post 1944331)

Sweden remained open during Covid. Bars, restaurants, schools, businesses, gyms etc. They initially had a spike in Covid deaths, but where are they today? The pundits all told us that they made a terrible mistake and their population would suffer because of their decision to remain open. The US shut schools, forced businesses to close, isolated families, trashed the economy and compounded the national debt. But we saved lives - right? Not based on the statistics we didn’t. Sweden has a population of 10.23 million and 14,267 Covid deaths. We have a population of 328.2 million and 584,000 Covid deaths. That’s .0014 of Sweden’s population and .0018 of the US population...

Originally Posted by GrumpyOldMan (Post 1944916)

There is no natural immunity prior to getting COVID.

Originally Posted by Topspinmo (Post 1945093)

Funny when all these civilized countries need help we have to bail them out and there still sucking on uncle sams dollar. How about those civilized countries paying us back for our sacrifice? O. I see they don’t help out uncivilized countries.

Originally Posted by Swoop (Post 1944331)

Sweden remained open during Covid. Bars, restaurants, schools, businesses, gyms etc. They initially had a spike in Covid deaths, but where are they today? The pundits all told us that they made a terrible mistake and their population would suffer because of their decision to remain open. The US shut schools, forced businesses to close, isolated families, trashed the economy and compounded the national debt. But we saved lives - right? Not based on the statistics we didn’t. Sweden has a population of 10.23 million and 14,267 Covid deaths. We have a population of 328.2 million and 584,000 Covid deaths. That’s .0014 of Sweden’s population and .0018 of the US population...

Originally Posted by GrumpyOldMan (Post 1945098)

Please list the civilized countries we have "bailed out" recently.

Originally Posted by graciegirl (Post 1944338)

Did you mean was it unescapable? This is the difficulty. This never before faced difficulty by those now living on earth brought many unsolvable problems. Our leaders faced them and none really solved them but used compromises. They would be damned if they did and damned if they didn't.

Naturally a deadly virus that attacks the whole world is going to slow down economic exchange. It is like the story of King Solomon and the two women who both claimed to be the mother to a baby. He asked them....Should I divide the child with my sword?? We were in that kind of mess with this Pandemic. There was no PAT answer. People do not want to die and they do not want their loved ones to die and they do not want their income to stop.

Now we are opening back up and the stipends are making things worse, not better.

Originally Posted by Gulfcoast (Post 1944423)

I think that the highly selective business shutdowns were not necessary in this situation and did more harm than good to the country. Ditto school shutdowns.

I think the added precautions in LTC facilities saved lives and were necessary. Beyond that, I think that people should have just been allowed to assess the risks for themselves and reacted accordingly. Painting everyone with one broad brush when most people were never at great risk from this virus was misguided.

Originally Posted by Aloha1 (Post 1944442)

Remember "Two weeks to slow the curve"? That was the advice of Fauci and the CDC before they really had an understanding of what was going on. When it became apparent that this was a much more serious health crisis, we had a leader who stepped up, cut through red tape, and got the ball rolling on vaccines and mitigation.

Now, 14 months later, we find the CDC and Fauci way behind the curve with their rules and mandates. Almost 55% vaccinated not counting those who have immunity from getting Covid. Yesterday TSA screened the highest number of air travelers since 14 months ago.

Yes, there are pockets where, I'll be blunt, Darwin's children refuse to get the shot but in general I believe we are over the hump and ready for normalcy whether the CDC says so or not. We have had enough of bureaucratic overreach.

Originally Posted by Swoop (Post 1944522)

Disagree with what?!? We had the shut downs they are still dead. I truly don’t understand your post...

Originally Posted by coffeebean (Post 1944585)

You ask "why"? There are many un-vaccinated people that are prime hosts for the virus to create more variants. Those variants have the ability to possibly render our current vaccines incapable of the protection they currently provide. It is all about mitigating the variants at this point, IMHO.

Originally Posted by Lindsyburnsy (Post 1944707)

Hindsight is always the clearest. Sweden also has social programs that we don't that provides a safety net for their citizens.

Originally Posted by Bucco (Post 1944461)

Won’t argue any scientific with you, or anyone, but a few corrections in your post...

1. Dr Faucci was not . The person who made the announcement “ Actually, he was not even the advisor for the WH (that was Dr Brix at the time this announcement was made). This announcement was made on March 16, 2020, not by Faucci.

Fact is, a few days later, after we were told by the government (not Faucci) that this virus would dissipate by July or August of 2020, Faucci actually said that Americans should be staying home for “several weeks”.

Covid: A year later, Trump'''s '''15 days to slow the spread''' shows how little we knew

Fauci predicts Americans will likely need to stay home for at least several more weeks

Not a scientist, but I think the vaccine trials began in December of 2020, and that Pfizer worked with German money and scientific knowledge to get the vaccine going. I am sure that within WHO, there was sharing, however in May 2020, the US pulled out of WHO

I post this and if anything is in error, please correct. It just seems we have serious memory lapses and want to make Faucci the scapegoat always, even when he was not involved. He is not perfect to be sure, but misquoting and using partial truths is not fair.

Originally Posted by MDLNB (Post 1944749)

Wrong or right, a lot of actions by the gov had a lot to do with the final outcome.
A question that still needs to be answered is: How did this get started?
We KNOW for a fact that OUR government granted/gave China Wu Han lab research money. How much did that have to do with the Covid virus? The Director of NIH stated in a recent interview that the money was not "meant" to be used to weaponize the virus. He said it WAS meant for research into Sars. So, how much does our gov. know that they are not telling us? I understand the need for secrets, but there seems to be an awful lot of effort going into shrugging off the origination explanation of where it started and how it got spread worldwide. What are they hiding?
On a different subject, we are spending trillions of dollars that we do not have on blatant, frivolous spending. Who are we borrowing the money from? Are we printing more money? Who dictates how much money we can print? What is the difference between printing money and borrowing money? I am not an expert in finance or economics so folks like me just want some simple answers in layman terms. How can we be concerned about billions of dollars spent and now welcome trillions to be spent. Because some small percentage is being given to us in the form of Covid relief? No one is worried about the great debt that we are building? Did no one learn anything from Greece's bankruptcy? There are many countries out there waiting to ponce on us like vultures on a wounded animal. Who's going to bail us out, China?
Covid is being used by the gov to waste an awful lot of money and no one is paying attention.

Originally Posted by GrumpyOldMan (Post 1944492)

Remember "just like the flu, and gone by April - magically".

Everyone made mistakes, everyone was learning as we went.

Originally Posted by donassaid (Post 1944814)

Covid is and was a political "planned-demic". Never before has a disease or virus with a 99% survival rate had such extreme measures forced upon its citizens. The ultimate impact financially, emotionally, and socially will never be calculated with the effects on school children, people unable to schedule critical surgeries, attend funerals, weddings, graduations, be with their hispitalized spouses, etc. Pure, unadulterated, absolute insanity driven by unhinged fear.

Originally Posted by Gulfcoast (Post 1944899)

If we already have natural immunity to the virus that the vaccine is meant to protect against, then why get a vaccine when we are already immune?

For the people who have been out there all along during this pandemic, keeping things running and making it possible for the more vulnerable to stay safe, I think it's only fair to let those workers decide for themselves whether or not to get the vaccine.