Originally Posted by jimjamuser (Post 1945145)

Over 1/2 MILLION US citizens DIED. That IS significant..... don't you think??????

Originally Posted by coralway (Post 1944448)

I would guess the families and friends of the 584,000 dead would disagree.

Originally Posted by Aloha1 (Post 1946216)

Did you shed any tears over the 60,000 to 100,000 who die of flu each year? How about the over 55,000 who die in car accidents? Or maybe the hundreds of thousands that die of other causes EACH YEAR?? Stop with the virtue signaling. It isn't working.

Originally Posted by GrumpyOldMan (Post 1946221)

If by flu you are referring to seasonal influenza, that number runs around 30,000, and for me yes, I shed tears over them - they are my fellow Americans, humans, and people with families.

I shed tears over them because so many of them are preventable if Flu vaccinations were mandatory (which would pay for itself in reduced loss of productivity and reduced cost of healthcare).

Even the influenza vaccination is not perfect. And some will die, but I shed tears over any unnecessary death that could have been prevented.

Originally Posted by Aloha1 (Post 1946228)

Per the CDC:
2016-2017 flu deaths 61,000
2017-2018 flu deaths 95,000
2018-2019 flu deaths 53,000

My point was not directed at you but at the false narrative that only Covid deaths matter.

Originally Posted by coffeebean (Post 1946189)

Please give me an example of one adverse side effect. I DO NOT mean the usual side effects such as fever, body aches and generalized flu like symptoms. Tell me about a side effect that is truly adverse.

Originally Posted by Aloha1 (Post 1946216)

Did you shed any tears over the 60,000 to 100,000 who die of flu each year? How about the over 55,000 who die in car accidents? Or maybe the hundreds of thousands that die of other causes EACH YEAR?? Stop with the virtue signaling. It isn't working.

Originally Posted by coffeebean (Post 1946172)

The mRNA vaccines continue to give protection against the variants besides the original strain so I'm not sure what you mean here. This article is dated May 14, 2021............

Vaccines seem to work well against Covid variants. It's also complicated

Originally Posted by Gulfcoast (Post 1946176)

It's their life and their risk to take. Most people are not going to get that sick even if they do catch Covid. The most vulnerable people have a high vaccination rate.

Children are far more at risk from other viruses and bacteria than they are from Covid. Keeping them isolated and "safe" has weakened their immune systems. Pregnant women who have stayed isolated and safe are not able to pass healthy antibodies onto their newborns.

There is more than one side to the coin. Covid is a big deal in nursing homes but not a big deal in elementary schools. The important thing is that the most vulnerable have access to the vaccine. Let those who are less vulnerable figure out if they need this vaccine or not.

Originally Posted by Gulfcoast (Post 1946176)

It's their life and their risk to take. Most people are not going to get that sick even if they do catch Covid. The most vulnerable people have a high vaccination rate.

Children are far more at risk from other viruses and bacteria than they are from Covid. Keeping them isolated and "safe" has weakened their immune systems. Pregnant women who have stayed isolated and safe are not able to pass healthy antibodies onto their newborns.

There is more than one side to the coin. Covid is a big deal in nursing homes but not a big deal in elementary schools. The important thing is that the most vulnerable have access to the vaccine. Let those who are less vulnerable figure out if they need this vaccine or not.

Originally Posted by coffeebean (Post 1946189)

Please give me an example of one adverse side effect. I DO NOT mean the usual side effects such as fever, body aches and generalized flu like symptoms. Tell me about a side effect that is truly adverse.

Originally Posted by coffeebean (Post 1946188)

Donald Trump and Melania had Covid. They were advised by their doctors to get vaccinated. They had their first shots before they left the White House. It is very prudent to get vaccinated even if you have had Covid.......

When Should You Get Vaccinated if You’ve Had COVID-19? – Health Essentials from Cleveland Clinic

Originally Posted by Swoop (Post 1946208)

If you are not in the vulnerable group, why risk being vaccinated and have a potential long term problem?!?...

Originally Posted by Aloha1 (Post 1946216)

Did you shed any tears over the 60,000 to 100,000 who die of flu each year? How about the over 55,000 who die in car accidents? Or maybe the hundreds of thousands that die of other causes EACH YEAR?? Stop with the virtue signaling. It isn't working.

Originally Posted by Gulfcoast (Post 1946244)

Why would a well person want fever, body aches and flu like symptoms?

As far as the side effects go, well the data is still coming in on that. Most side effects from the vaccine are mild but, then again, most cases of Covid-19 are mild for those in the lower risk groups.

One of the most serious side effects of the vaccine that I'm aware of were blood clots (thrombosis) associated with the Johnson and Johnson vaccine. I've heard of other reported side effects up to, and including, sudden unexplained death following the vaccination.

Are fears of the vaccination overblown? Probably. Are fears of Covid-19 overblown for most people? Probably.

it is not the open/shut case that you might think that it is.

Originally Posted by Gulfcoast (Post 1946245)

The flu has apparently been eradicated off of the planet. Some car accident victims apparently wound up as Covid statistics. So maybe car accident deaths are down, too?

It's all a confusing whirlwind.

Originally Posted by jimjamuser (Post 1946254)

The British variant of CV that is gaining in the US is sickening and killing young children. And I believe that is NOT true about pregnant women.

Originally Posted by stanley (Post 1946259)

Originally Posted by lkagele (Post 1946271)

Reference please. I did a search and couldn't find anything about variants killing children.

Originally Posted by Aloha1 (Post 1946228)

Per the CDC:
2016-2017 flu deaths 61,000
2017-2018 flu deaths 95,000
2018-2019 flu deaths 53,000

My point was not directed at you but at the false narrative that only Covid deaths matter.

Originally Posted by jimjamuser (Post 1946269)

Car accidents WERE down due to the quarantine.

Originally Posted by Gulfcoast (Post 1944457)

Members of my household have been going to their service industry jobs and dealing with the public face to face throughout this pandemic. Even when dentists and primary care physicians had closed their offices and weren't seeing patients, there were workers heading to their jobs at grocery stores, pharmacies, food service, gasoline stations - day in, day out.

That has helped to shape my perspective as to the risks of this virus. When you live with the risk daily, you get a pretty good idea how bad (or not so bad) things really are, at least in terms of yourself and your own family.

I'm the 55 year old mom who had healthy, active teens going to their jobs and schools plus activities. And, I was also the whippersnapper who was out running errands for her elderly mom. I haven't had the luxury of "staying safe" but thankfully we did manage to get through the better part of a year without a vaccine.

Now that the cases are falling, vulnerable people have gotten vaccinated and the actual risks of catching Covid have been greatly reduced we are now supposed to run out and get vaccinated even though we have likely already had the virus, albeit mild cases of it?

Why?

Originally Posted by jimjamuser (Post 1946274)

ONE person.....statistically that is an N of 1..........basically meaningless.

Originally Posted by coffeebean (Post 1946189)

Please give me an example of one adverse side effect. I DO NOT mean the usual side effects such as fever, body aches and generalized flu like symptoms. Tell me about a side effect that is truly adverse.

Originally Posted by Gulfcoast (Post 1946244)

Why would a well person want fever, body aches and flu like symptoms?

As far as the side effects go, well the data is still coming in on that. Most side effects from the vaccine are mild but, then again, most cases of Covid-19 are mild for those in the lower risk groups.

One of the most serious side effects of the vaccine that I'm aware of were blood clots (thrombosis) associated with the Johnson and Johnson vaccine. I've heard of other reported side effects up to, and including, sudden unexplained death following the vaccination.

Are fears of the vaccination overblown? Probably. Are fears of Covid-19 overblown for most people? Probably.

it is not the open/shut case that you might think that it is.

Originally Posted by jimjamuser (Post 1946252)

Doctors in England are worried about the S. African and Indian variants that are coming into England. They are thinking that they may have to go back to some form of quarantine.

Originally Posted by stanley (Post 1946259)

Originally Posted by Bill14564 (Post 1946232)

Which CDC page was that? (I suspect you were reading the wrong column)

This CDC page shows the estimates as:
2016-2017: 38,000
2017-2018: 61,000
2018-2019: 34,000


All deaths matter but the number of Covid deaths in the short timeframe and the impact the virus continues to have on the world make Covid a bit different.

When the number of Covid deaths fall to something similar to the flu and when the reaction to a Covid diagnosis is something far less than quarantines and lockdowns then Covid will be just another one of the many killer diseases we wish we could get rid of.

Originally Posted by Aloha1 (Post 1946643)

Past Seasons Estimated Influenza Disease Burden | CDC

You are only posting the estimate not the range.

Originally Posted by coffeebean (Post 1946633)

Maybe I should have specified I'm only following and interested in mRNA vaccines. Eric Clapton did not have mRNA vaccine. Amazing that Clapton still had the second shot after suffering a severe problematic reaction after his first shot. Go figure!

Originally Posted by Bill14564 (Post 1946646)

And you only posted the high end of the range. The table below showing typically fewer than 30,000 flu deaths would be just as accurate:

2016-2017: 29,000
2017-2018: 46,000
2018-2019: 26,000

Originally Posted by Aloha1 (Post 1946666)

I disagree. The CDC numbers are their best guess but they acknowledge they could be higher or lower, hence the range. Bottom line, I guess, is we have no way of knowing EXACTLY how many have died from the flu over the last few years, but we are "absolutely certain" how many have died from Covid. Food for thought.

Originally Posted by Bill14564 (Post 1946674)

"We" aren't "absolutely certain" but I believe the CDC numbers that show more than 500,000 excess deaths in 2020. Lacking any other reasonable explanation, these excess deaths must be due to Covid. While the number of flu deaths in 2018 was in the range 46,000 to 95,000, there were ten times as many Covid-related deaths in 2020.

All deaths matter and it would be nice to reduce the number of any deaths but a new condition that causes one half million deaths in a single year (and additional deaths into the next) is worth special attention.

Originally Posted by Gulfcoast (Post 1946315)

I know. I was attempting to use a little humorous bad math to demonstrate how preposterous some of the numbers are out there.

Of course, the flu did not just miraculously vanish and car accidents did decline because people were driving less. Yet, I have still heard tales about car accident victims' deaths being labeled as Covid related. I've heard of a person, who died from sepsis stemming from an untreated urinary tract infection, have their death labeled Covid.

The CDC has confirmed that the number of deaths caused by Covid alone are pretty low. Most of the deaths had significant other causes associated with them.

That explains why the schools that have reopened along with service industry and healthcare workers haven't been absolutely decimated by the virus. In fact, they've fared pretty darned well.

Originally Posted by coffeebean (Post 1946632)

Which vaccine is England using to vaccinate their population? Is it the AZ vaccine? I don't follow what is happening with any vaccines with the exception of the mRNA vaccines. So far, the mRNA vaccines seem to be extremely safe and effective against the variants.

Originally Posted by Aloha1 (Post 1947216)

I understand your perspective but I won't rehash all the other variables in reporting such as how deaths were coded, why there were few flu or pneumonia deaths recorded, etc. People died, that is true. Some even from Covid. But we may never know exactly how many.

Originally Posted by coffeebean (Post 1947323)

I could go on an on and on and on. Anyone who is not aware of these horrendous scenarios was just not watching, reading and listening to news sources that were reporting what was happening in our country. No sugar coating was done. I saw with my own eyes those scenarios. This was our America??

Originally Posted by coffeebean (Post 1947323)

How about counting the amount of refrigerated trucks that were used as makeshift morgues? How about counting the makeshift hospital units that were set up in public ramp garages for the excessive amount of patients? How about counting all those patients that were turned away from hospitals because they were overwhelmed with excess patients? How about those EMTs that had to make decisions of who is transported to hospitals and who was left to die at home? How about all those exhausted health care workers pleading with America to wear masks and social distance? Many of them suffer from PTSD today.

I could go on an on and on and on. Anyone who is not aware of these horrendous scenarios was just not watching, reading and listening to news sources that were reporting what was happening in our country. No sugar coating was done. I saw with my own eyes those scenarios. This was our America??

Originally Posted by stanley (Post 1947325)

Ahhhh......that's the key.......media

Originally Posted by Swoop (Post 1947327)

The problem was you were watching the news. You were shown what they wanted you to see. Fear sells...