Anyone who is not able to be vaccinated for medical reasons needs to defend THEMSELVES when in public. THEY should be wearing an N95 mask to protect themselves. They should not be relying on vaccinated people to protect them by wearing a mask. I'm ALREADY protecting them by being vaccinated as I will not spread the virus to anyone with a minimal viral load if I happen to be infected. I am no threat to anyone who protects themselves with an N95 or equivalent mask. Also......those who cannot be vaccinated due to medical issues need to stay home where they can remain safe. Venture out of the house?.......wear an N95 mask.

I'M VACCINATED. That is one of the perks of being vaccinated. I know I'm cannot be a super spreader of this virus.

OBB.....I usually see eye to eye with you but not in this case.

So the CDC, the organization that is supposed to keep us updated on the virus and it’s trends are months behind? The number of breakthrough cases is climbing and yet it is going unreported by the CDC. The fact is, they made the decision to stop reporting the number of breakthrough cases…
One former medical professional on TOTV constantly refers to the CDC’s .007% number when defending the vaccine’s effectiveness. I have never seen you respond to his posts regarding the use of that figure…
We were told since the onset of the virus that you could still spread Covid even if you were asymptotic. That’s why it was so important to wear masks. Because you could have the virus and not know it, and still pass it on to others. So why wouldn’t that hold true for breakthrough cases??…

[QUOTE=Dana1963;1978670]We DON’t NEED NO STINKING MASKS. But Respiratory Ventilators work so much better.
Who would have thought this was going to happen?[/QUE]

If you are unvaccinated and decide to not wear a mask indoors and outdoors among large groups you sure are pushing the envelope toward catching Covid. “Herd immunity”is the goal and is within sight. Science has provided a way out from this pandemic if those that medically can will just do the right thing for the better good and get vaccinated.

I have not yet found a page where the CDC calculates the 0.007% number. The data they provide as of 4/30 is 10,000 cases out of 101M vaccinations or 1:10,000. Their is a difference between reporting an observation at a particular time and demanding that future observations match the first.

The CDC says they have moved on. They stopped reporting positive test results due to the likelihood that the data they were receiving represented an undercount. Their page says they shifted focus to hospitalized and fatal cases to improve accuracy.

"why wouldn't that hold true for breakthrough cases" I am not an epidemiologist or medical professional, I do not play one on tv or in TV, and I did not stay at a Holiday Inn Express last night. I can read and understand the English language, I can run a calculator, and I can usually make some sort of sense out of multiple sets of data. I don't have an authoritative answer to that question, only my guess.

My guess is that far fewer detectable "infections" are able to take hold and grow in a vaccinated person (detectable in a vaccinated person does not necessarily lead to contagious or symptomatic) though in a small number of cases (6,000 in 160M) they do. If my guess is correct then it makes sense to look for detectable "infections" in unvaccinated people since there is a good chance the infection will continue to grow but not in vaccinated people since there is reason to believe the infection will be stopped. That's my guess, my theory, but we'll have to wait for the right studies to come out to learn whether it happens to be correct.

Who ya gonna believe?
 

and Mississippi is the #1 State in terms of rates of obesity. Alabama is #1 in terms of heart disease death rates. and DC has the highest murder rate!!

blah blah blah blah

That is not quite correct. Effective May 1, 2021, the CDC switched to identifying and investigating those breakthrough cases that result in hospitalization and death. For the hospitalized and dead, the breakthrough rate is approximately 0.004% (5914 out of 161 million as of July 19, 2021).

The previous reporting period, Jan 1, 2021 to April 30, 2021, was not limited to only hospitalizations and death and saw 10262 breakthrough infections reported out of 101 million vaccinated people. This was a breakthrough rate of 0.01% but is probably undercounted. Approximately 12% of those were hospitalized or died.

COVID-19 Breakthrough Case Investigations and Reporting | CDC

That is not the conclusion of the paper.

First, if you "ask" me if I've been vaccinated, I will tell you none of your f'n business. You could deduce by that that I have not. Yes, that's what it's coming down to

Second, why would "you" need to wear a mask "if" you are vaccinated? Seems like a lot of the "vaccinated" are having doubts about the effectiveness of it. And how exactly would you make someone buy you a mask?

Third, how exactly are you going to make "ME" "go somewhere else"?

And fourth, I refer you to this;

You make no sense.

That is not the conclusion of this paper. It only discussed patients who had mild to moderate response to Covid 19 and the decay of immune system responses to the virus. It did not include anyone who had been vaccinated. In fact the last sentence of the introduction says

"This investigation will also serve as a benchmark for immune memory induced in humans by SARS-CoV-2 vaccines."

Good news is that you have moved to referencing papers instead of press releases. The bad news is that you have extrapolated beyond what their data set allows.

same cases determined by PCR test the CDC quietly pulled last Friday.

What is the size of the virus in microns compared to the size of microns a cloth disposable mask capable of filtering?

Everything I have read and heard from expert doctors on my television claim that vaccinated people do not have enough viral load to infect others, vaxxed or un-vaxxed. Isn’t this why CDC guidelines for vaccinated people state they do not have to quarantine after an exposure to a KNOWN Covid positive person UNLESS they are symptomatic for Covid. That means a vaccinated person is no threat to anyone unless they are symptomatic for Covid.

I have not seen or heard that this guideline has changed. If it has, will someone kindly post a link to the new guideline. Thanks.

The virus does not travel by itself. The virus is encapsulated in droplets and/or aerosols. Those droplets and aerosols are HUGE compared to the minuscule size of the virus. THIS is why universal masking with NON N95 masks are effective for source control. Those non N95 masks are not effective for protecting the wearer. Hasn’t this been established already for well over a year? Why in the world are we even discussing this at this point in time of this pandemic? Oh, I know. It is because of your comment about the size of the virus particles.

The elephant in the room is how to get/force vax/mask compliance??? Won't happen in the permissive everything world of today!

Let the non vax pandemic seek it's own level of acceptable new cases/hospitalizations/deaths.

There is no sense what so ever in appealing to the vaccinated to mask up to help protect those who will not get the vax or mask up to help themselves!

Unless you plan on spitting ONTO a mask, it really doesn't matter what size they are. The point of the mask is to reduce risk, not become an impenetrable barrier against moisture.

Virii mutate when they have a sizeable segment of hosts with which to mutate. The more people who are vaccinated, the smaller the segment of hosts. The smaller the segment of hosts, the less likely the virus is capable of surviving long enough to mutate at all.

And the less likely it is to mutate, the more likely vaccinated people are to not get the new mutated virus, which the vaccine is NOT created to combat.

A very small % happens like that. Too small to even mention or affect anyone's decision whether or not to get the vaccine. Perfection can NOT be expected from ANY vaccine.

Florida brought this "covid capital distinction" on itself. We have become the nation's laughingstock.

Ya think the MSM helped just a little bit?:pray:

I am tired of the incubators who walk among us.

I am tired of those who will not apply simple risk vs. benefit thinking to their vaccine decision. (Yes. I am capable of making exceptions for those who cannot take the risk because of certain medical conditions.)

I am tired of those who cannot seem to comprehend that we protect children by vaccinating adults. Why do adults who refuse to be vaccinated for no real reason not realize they are robbing children of their childhoods?

I am tired of Facebook Zombies who think they are so much smarter than us vaccinated people — and so much smarter than doctors and scientists. (Of course, there are the “doctors and scientists” who are making big bucks by reeling them in.)

I am tired of churches that actually discourage vaccinating, whether it be outright or insidious anti-vaccine messages. . .

If they think they can pray away the virus, they need to hear that old joke about the guy who dies and asks God why he did not save him from drowning when he prayed to be rescued. God answered him, saying, “ Geez, who do you think sent the guy on the shore with the rope, and then the boat and then the helicopter?”

I am tired of thinking about how insurance premiums are going to become even more ridiculous to cover the cost of vaccine deniers who get sick. We all know insurance companies do not lose money. (Check their stocks if you do not believe me.)

I am tired of seeing that our economy is going to suffer extensively from this thing that is so obviously preventable. But as long as there are those who are allowing themselves to be played as pawns in the game of power, we’re all going to be hit economically, in one way or another.

And I am tired of a year-plus of wearing a mask — that could start all over. This upcoming possibility of going back to that is like one of those stupid class-punishments that some teachers use. (I taught secondary ed for a hundred years and never, ever used one of those.)

I am tired of the fact that Pogo was absolutely right.

I gotta get outa here now and do something useful. Why oh why can’t I stop looking at these threads. . .

Boomer

You're not the only one that's tired!

The question that you ask brings up an age-old, deep philosophic question - "are we our brother's keeper"? Many of the UNvaccinated are young people that feel invulnerable to pain and death. Society has a responsibility to educate young people and spare them any chance of experiencing unnecessary CV pain and death. In the wild most mammals like deer, bears, and dogs protect their young. Human behavior can be more complex and not governed by instinct. And in the current situation, people can be overwhelmed by the cross-currents of information and misinformation.

They must not have understood the part about spike protein toxicity...hardly debunked. That is why it was posted.

Let's just do a hypothetical......Let's say every single vaccinated person on the planet can still spread Covid if they get infected. Of those vaccinated people who become infected, hospitalizations and death of those vaccinated infected people are minuscule compared to the total amount of fully vaccinated people.

So.....any "smart" un-vaccinated person should make a B-line to the nearest vaccination center and get themselves vaccinated. I said "smart" but don't know how "smart" they are if they aren't vaccinated yet.That Delta variant is sure to get ya. LOL.

Middle school children engage in "name-calling" because it is quick and makes them feel powerful and relevant. But, they are incapable of a REASONED, intelligent argument. They eventually become ignored by their peers.

I absolutely agree.

I believe we have responsibilities as members of our society to each do our part to help our "herd" survive and prosper. We all seem to be willing to accept the benefits of living in this country, but it seems some are not willing to do their part as a member.

Personally, I blame the internet for most of our issues around this. For the first time in history, anyone no matter what expertise they have can instantly reach an audience of literally billions, and make money doing it - lots of money. It would help if everyone would quit clicking on clickbait and quit viewing blogs and youtube videos of influencers.

Often the use of name-calling and extreme positions is to gain recognition and validation. Internet trolls for decades have thrived on the validation they get from their peer group. Not for the accuracy of their comments, but for the vitriol and over-the-top comments.

Middle School children also have a better understanding of what's written in a comment, Nobody called anyone names.

Where in this quote is the name calling?

Originally Posted by drducat View Post
Also I am having trouble trusting the CDC these days along with FDA and AMA is out to lunch and has been for a while now. The WHO is off the rails.

Again...where is the name calling in that comment that I quoted?
Too much "misinformation............baaaaaa

Vaccinated people don't need to mask up to help themselves. They are protected from becoming ill and protected from death. Now, the immunocompromised may need to mask up because they don't usually achieve the level of protection of people with normal immune systems. The immunocompromised vaccinated people need to mask up to protect themselves......not the people with a strong response to the vaccines.

I dislike ANY illegal immigrants coming to OUR country. But, as far as the 30% that refuse vaccination. That should not be TOO surprising because 30% of the regular residents of OUR country, also, refuse to be vaccinated. Both groups are going to weaken America and both outrage me.

Really? Where have you heard, read or seen that our current mRNA vaccines do not protect against the Delta variant or any other variant for that matter? That is not what I have heard, read or seen on my television being informed my the specialists and doctors. In fact, the only information I have received about the Delta variant is that the mRNA vaccines are protective against this Delta variant. THIS is the reason the American people are being told that we do not need a booster at this point in time. The drug companies are considering a booster for those vaccinated people who are immunocompromised and have not had a robust response from the vaccine.

Has anyone heard any differently?

Buffoonery Inc.

MSM tells it like it is. You don't see MSM passing on conspiracy theories. THAT is why they are main stream. Get it?

The part about Florida IS easily explained. The unvaccinated illegals, even if NOT sent to Florida, could contact and infect someone coming to Florida. Say a truck driver or tourist. There is NO protected bubble over Florida. Like it or NOT, we ALL live in ONE big country and even just ONE big world.

Boomer said a mouthful. So right on target.

I'm not anyone's keeper but myself.

The mortality rate is a lagging statistic. The number of cases is a leading indicator of DEATHS!

Riddle me this then Joker......
Why doesn't Fauchi agree to be interviewed on
...........um......more .........um.......Conservative
News media?