[The Chipster]

Hilarious. I'm going to save this whole discussion for my great grandchildren to read someday - say 50 years from now when they have cars we cannot even imagine. They will howl with laughter at all the EV naysayers back in 2023 who can't focus on the big picture, which is: We are now WAY early in EV technology. Those of us that have and love EVs are early adopters, well aware of the current issue with outside charging stations, prices, etc. But we also know that major changes are happening NOW in the EV industry, such as solid state batteries that will have 2X or 3X the range in a few years. And the car companies know that they need to invest in the EV game or go extinct, even if the next few years are going to be financially tough for them. Because the current technology of internal combustion engines is on its way out, declining in market share vs. EVs, as we speak.

[The Chipster]

[QUOTE=The Chipster;2257925]Hilarious. I'm going to save this whole discussion for my great grandchildren to read someday - say 50 years from now when they have cars we cannot even imagine. They will howl with laughter at all the EV naysayers back in 2023 who can't focus on the big picture, which is: We are now WAY early in EV technology. Those of us that have and love EVs are early adopters, well aware of the current issue with outside charging stations, prices, etc. But we also know that major changes are happening NOW in the EV industry, such as solid state batteries that will have 2X or 3X the range in a few years. And the car companies know that they need to invest in the EV game or go extinct, even if the next few years are going to be financially tough for them. Because the current technology of internal combustion engines is on its way out, declining in market share vs. EVs, as we speak.

[srswans]

Originally Posted by Rainger99

This does not seem to be a sound business plan!!

Ford Loses Over $32,000 Per EV During The Second Quarter, Shifts Production Goals | Carscoops

The real story, as the article explains, is that Ford expected to lose $21k but have been losing $32,000 so Ford is adjusting production accordingly.

[mickey100]

[QUOTE=The Chipster;2257928]

Originally Posted by The Chipster

Hilarious. I'm going to save this whole discussion for my great grandchildren to read someday - say 50 years from now when they have cars we cannot even imagine. They will howl with laughter at all the EV naysayers back in 2023 who can't focus on the big picture, which is: We are now WAY early in EV technology. Those of us that have and love EVs are early adopters, well aware of the current issue with outside charging stations, prices, etc. But we also know that major changes are happening NOW in the EV industry, such as solid state batteries that will have 2X or 3X the range in a few years. And the car companies know that they need to invest in the EV game or go extinct, even if the next few years are going to be financially tough for them. Because the current technology of internal combustion engines is on its way out, declining in market share vs. EVs, as we speak.

Exactly!

[Tvflguy]

Originally Posted by The Chipster

Hilarious. I'm going to save this whole discussion for my great grandchildren to read someday - say 50 years from now when they have cars we cannot even imagine. They will howl with laughter at all the EV naysayers back in 2023 who can't focus on the big picture, which is: We are now WAY early in EV technology. Those of us that have and love EVs are early adopters, well aware of the current issue with outside charging stations, prices, etc. But we also know that major changes are happening NOW in the EV industry, such as solid state batteries that will have 2X or 3X the range in a few years. And the car companies know that they need to invest in the EV game or go extinct, even if the next few years are going to be financially tough for them. Because the current technology of internal combustion engines is on its way out, declining in market share vs. EVs, as we speak.

Spot on. The Big 3 and others in Europe and Japan are on deaths door. By 2030, max, there will be drastic changes in auto firm. Most will be out of business or scratching for minimal profits. Only those fully invested in EV tech or closely there will survive. And when this new labor deal goes thru, the door is closer.

The UAW wants to make the most of it right now as they know they will be depleted in a few years. Auto Cos will move to Right to Work states or China etc.

We are not “Green” but have an elec golf cart. And will order a new Tesla very soon to replace our perfectly OK ICE car. We test drove a Model 3 recently and… OMG. I now dislike our current car’s exhaust in the garage and noise starting. It’s a new world and we WILL be joining up. Tesla tech and charging capability is light years ahead of any other in the USA

[JMintzer]

Originally Posted by The Chipster

Hilarious. I'm going to save this whole discussion for my great grandchildren to read someday - say 50 years from now when they have cars we cannot even imagine. They will howl with laughter at all the EV naysayers back in 2023 who can't focus on the big picture, which is: We are now WAY early in EV technology. Those of us that have and love EVs are early adopters, well aware of the current issue with outside charging stations, prices, etc. But we also know that major changes are happening NOW in the EV industry, such as solid state batteries that will have 2X or 3X the range in a few years. And the car companies know that they need to invest in the EV game or go extinct, even if the next few years are going to be financially tough for them. Because the current technology of internal combustion engines is on its way out, declining in market share vs. EVs, as we speak.

Yes, your post IS hilarious!

Funny how the "early adopters" like to brag how "forward thinking" they are, but they fail to take into account that they are the few who are able to charge their EVs at home, in the comfort of their garage... They are able to pay $thousands more for an EV when most Americans are struggling to purchase ANY new car. Elitism at it's finest!

No one is saying that EVs won't be the vehicles of the future. They are saying that RIGHT NOW, we are not ready for what the government is not only suggesting, but forcing people to to... And they are saying that they won't be the ONLY vehicles of the future...

No problem with "investing in the game". But do it wisely. Make sure you have the infrastructure in place to accommodate all of the EVs they want us to but.

So far, I don't see that happening. Ignoring the problems that were posted (such as where apt and condo dwellers are supposed to charge their EVs, and the lack of available electricity to charge the increased number of EVs) is foolish. Some might even call it "hysterical...

[JMintzer]

Originally Posted by Tvflguy

Spot on. The Big 3 and others in Europe and Japan are on deaths door. By 2030, max, there will be drastic changes in auto firm. Most will be out of business or scratching for minimal profits. Only those fully invested in EV tech or closely there will survive. And when this new labor deal goes thru, the door is closer.

The UAW wants to make the most of it right now as they know they will be depleted in a few years. Auto Cos will move to Right to Work states or China etc.

We are not “Green” but have an elec golf cart. And will order a new Tesla very soon to replace our perfectly OK ICE car. We test drove a Model 3 recently and… OMG. I now dislike our current car’s exhaust in the garage and noise starting. It’s a new world and we WILL be joining up. Tesla tech and charging capability is light years ahead of any other in the USA

I was picked up by an Uber driver in a Tesla Model 3 the other day. I have to say, I was unimpressed... No better/worse than any other similar size vehicle I've ridden in...

But if you like yours... Great!

As to your "Death's Door" prediction... With the number of Lexuses, Acuras, Camarys, and Accords I see on the road, I doubt those predictions are accurate...

[Battlebasset]

I have an electric golf cart (lithium ion). Works perfect for what I need it for. Golf course and back. Square and back. Grocery store and back. Plug it into a 110 outlet when I get home, full charge by morning. Right tool for the right job.

My car is ICE, for the same reasons. Right tool for the right job. EV is not ready to replace my ICE for what I need my ICE to do - Go long distances, refuel quickly, multiple fueling stations every few miles, solid, proven 100 year+ technology that keeps improving.

Hybrid? Sure. Pure EV? Not ready for my lifestyle. I don't care what anyone drives. But the heavy hand of government should not be pushing this faster than it is ready for most people's motoring needs.

If you want to go first, knock yourself out. I'll watch and see how it plays out, and make my decision at the appropriate time. No downside for me to wait.

Remember, the early bird gets the worm. But the second mouse gets the cheese.

[Hizzonner1030]

Many say that no one wants an EV. Go to to a dealers lot and try to buy one or even test drive. They sell faster than they are being manufactured.

[Battlebasset]

Originally Posted by The Chipster

Hilarious. I'm going to save this whole discussion for my great grandchildren to read someday - say 50 years from now when they have cars we cannot even imagine. They will howl with laughter at all the EV naysayers back in 2023 who can't focus on the big picture, which is: We are now WAY early in EV technology. Those of us that have and love EVs are early adopters, well aware of the current issue with outside charging stations, prices, etc. But we also know that major changes are happening NOW in the EV industry, such as solid state batteries that will have 2X or 3X the range in a few years. And the car companies know that they need to invest in the EV game or go extinct, even if the next few years are going to be financially tough for them. Because the current technology of internal combustion engines is on its way out, declining in market share vs. EVs, as we speak.

Assuming you are correct, and I disagree with a few of your points, you make an excellent case to wait and watch how this plays out as far as technology and who makes the best product.

If you were an early adopter of betamax, you were probably bummed when VHS won out. If you rushed to replace your vinyl collection with CD's, same thing when itunes and streaming came out. As well as if you invested in $1,000's in film cameras and your own development equipment. At the end Kodak couldn't give it away.

No reason to be the first person to buy such expensive technology that is still being developed. My newer ICE will easily run for another 10 years, I've got another one that is 22 years old, and still going strong. Unless the government decides to come and take them (gee, that wouldn't happen, would it?) I'm happy to watch and wait to see where this all lands.

[ThirdOfFive]

Originally Posted by dhdallas

I just don't get all of you EV haters out there. No one is forcing you to get one and by the time combustion engines are finally prohibited we will all be long dead.

EV haters?

More like a healthy skepticism of anything smacking of social engineering.

[mtdjed]

Originally Posted by Rainger99

I don’t understand the accounting details but I would assume that the EV is a separate division and that the costs are x and the income is y. The costs clearly exceed the income so you divide the losses by the number of vehicles sold to determine the loss per vehicle.

But perhaps we have some people who worked in the automotive industry that can explain how these losses are calculated.

Even NPR says that Ford is losing money on EVs.

Ford's CEO is staking its future on electric cars : NPR

It is quite simple.

Make your total cost at any point you want, but the maker has a plan for a quantity that will recover the development cost, incremental item cost and profit.

That may not work on government projects since profit is not their goal.

[Pugchief]

Originally Posted by merrymini

Why would anyone hold a meeting of car manufacturers of electric cars and not invite Elon Musk?

Because the powers that be don't like him because he refuses to acquiesce and bend the knee every time they come calling with another demand.

[kkingston57]

Originally Posted by Rainger99

This does not seem to be a sound business plan!!

Ford Loses Over $32,000 Per EV During The Second Quarter, Shifts Production Goals | Carscoops

Tesla lost a lot of money early on also. They will catch up. Still feel that car makers should have worked more fervently on hybrid cars. These cars get at least 25-30% higher mileage and do not have the range problems.

This would have been a compromise. Something politicians do not even know how to spell.

[Caymus]

Originally Posted by merrymini

I have owned a tesla, fantastic car. Most of the time charged it at home. It only becomes a problem on a long range trip. So far, when I used it that way, it wasn’t too bad but what happens when you have too many of them and not enough infrastructure for recharging? Until new battery technology comes around, a chargeable hybrid is the best transition vehicle. So why are people, particularly the administration, pushing a technology that would strip the earth of the minerals to provide these batteries? Why would anyone hold a meeting of car manufacturers of electric cars and not invite Elon Musk? I can only assume brainless zombies are making these decisions because they are so stupid.

Because Tesla is nonunion.