[ColdNoMore]

Putting aside those who are against unions in general, but embrace and support police unions, here's a very good analysis/editorial of a big part of the problem...of rooting out and permanently getting rid of the 1% (or less) of bad cops.

Holding Police Accountable (click here)

Editorial: Here's how to hold police accountable: Don't let their unions give money to prosecutors.

That's why we need to demand accountability and change from law enforcement and the criminal justice establishment that too often shrugs at police violence.

Police unions have every right to advocate for the pay, benefits and working conditions of their members.

But one of their tasks is to defend officers in misconduct cases, and that makes the conflict of interest readily apparent.

An elected official considering whether to prosecute officers should not be, in essence, on the political payroll of the agency defending the very same people.

.

[Topspinmo]

You could say that about any union. Especially the ones that buy career politicians for votes in their interests.

[ColdNoMore]

I also speak from 35+ years experience...in regards to dealing with unions.

Early in my career, I was a union steward who was even sent to a week school outside of Seattle...to be "trained."

A lot of what I heard in that week, is what began making me see my particular union...in a different light.

What was hammered into us, was the fact that we were legally obligated to defend even the "problem children"...as hard as we could.

That didn't make sense to me...but the law was the law.

What I did receive, from our local union President, was some very sage advice.

His attitude was that although we were required to defend the union members, there are some that you "don't have to get up early or stay up late...in their defense."

Later on in my career, when I had worked my way up through the system and had become a senior manager, I was on the other side of the table and negotiated a number of CBA's...with three separate unions.

The old president of my union at the time when I was a steward, had retired and the new/younger group(s) (all 3 unions), did not have the same wisdom and didn't bother to differentiate between the employee that was in a hearing for the umpteenth time...and the one that simply made a mistake.

Needless to say, they were not usually happy when I was at the table, because I often knew their argument and strategy...before they even expressed it.

Our standard punishment for a serious rules infraction conviction...was 30 days off without pay.

Recognizing that the time off didn't just affect them, but also affected their families and family finances, I often proposed an "alternative discipline" in cases...where the employee wasn't a constant problem child.

My proposed alternative discipline consisted of determining how much money they would lose with the 30 days off and offering them to keep working, at a lower rate, that would in effect make them pay the same amount of money they would lose...but to do it over a period of up to year.

Since this allowed the employee to keep working and getting a regular paycheck, albeit less than they would normally receive... about 80% accepted this alternative discipline.

The other 20% were financially OK and were actually happy...to have the 30 day "vacation."

Anyway, I saw it as a win-win...for both sides.

I didn't have to replace the employee and the employee was able to continue to pay their bills...even if it meant that they might have to tighten their belts a bit.

My long-winded point is, that I believe we need more "out-of-the-box" thinking with police unions...if we're going to solve this issue.

[ColdNoMore]

Originally Posted by Topspinmo

You could say that about any union. Especially the ones that buy career politicians for votes in their interests.

Yeah BUT, the last I checked we don't have a real problem with teachers killing, or even using excessive force...with their students.

[TexaninVA]

Originally Posted by ColdNoMore

Yeah BUT, the last I checked we don't have a real problem with teachers killing, or even using excessive force...with their students.

Yes, it's worse than that. They are destroying young kids' minds with revolutionary Marxist dogma.

[John_W]

You're not the only one who knows about unions, has been a member, has been an officer, has been involved in a job action!!! Been There - Done That - You're not going to change Unions when they provide protection for the work force.

When I was a controller and you were involved in an accident. The NTSB, the FAA, the Aircrafts owners/operators and the Controllers Union would all investigate. If the aircraft crashed because the controller made an error, that's what the FAA's report would read. If the controller was working three sectors combined without a coordinator or hand-off man, or there was poor radar coverage in that area, or whatever the extenuating factors were, that's what the Union's report would read. Then the NTSB would sort it out. If not for the union, the Controller would hang!!

[ColdNoMore]

THAT explains a lot.


Not a real Reagan fan...I presume?


And I've never said..."I'm the only one."

[John_W]

Originally Posted by ColdNoMore

THAT explains a lot.


Not a real Reagan fan...I presume?

He did what he was suppose to do, we made a bet and lost!!! Then you make Lemonade out of Lemons!!! The Strike of 17,000 controllers from Puerto Rico to Guam took 3 years to organize. Jimmy Carter was in his first term, how did we know he would turn out to be so bad and get defeated. The plan was, Carter would cave. After three of years planning, too many were ready to give a go and call Reagan's Bluff!!!

[Number 10 GI]

Originally Posted by ColdNoMore

Yeah BUT, the last I checked we don't have a real problem with teachers killing, or even using excessive force...with their students.

No they just have sex with under age children.

[ColdNoMore]

It was actually about 13,000 that went on strike and a little more than 11,000 that were fired...but don't let those pesty facts get in the way.

The firing of the ATC's was also, the beginning of a long, coordinated, game of reducing the power of union's that has (unfortunately in a lot of cases)...worked quite successfully.

I'm sure it is just a pure coincidence, that the massive reduction in union membership has had a direct opposite effect...of the profits going to the top 10%.

[Number 10 GI]

Ever hear of the AMA push for bad doctors losing their license to practice? Yeah me either. When was the last time that the Bar Association worked to get an unscrupulous lawyer debarred? How many times has our congress over looked or justified egregious behavior of their own? Sounds like a "systemic" problem to me.

[ColdNoMore]

Originally Posted by Number 10 GI

No they just have sex with under age children.

You mean just like....nahhh never mind.


Just the thought of it...sickens me.

[Stu from NYC]

Some teachers in NYC could not be fired but could not be trusted with children.

They were sent to an office somewhere and got to read or waste the day and got paid.

The union would not allow them to be fired so they were paid to do nothing.

[anothersteve]

Originally Posted by Stuart Zaikov

Some teachers in NYC could not be fired but could not be trusted with children.

They were sent to an office somewhere and got to read or waste the day and got paid.

The union would not allow them to be fired so they were paid to do nothing.

Happened in my High School. Well liked teacher having sex with a Sophmore. He was kicked out the High School and sent to the Middle School. He finally got arrested. You can guess why
Steve

[600th Photo Sq]

Originally Posted by OrangeBlossomBaby

Well in part, because most blue states collect the highest amount of tax dollars, much of which is then paid to the federal government to cover social service expenses for states that collect the lowest amount of tax dollars - which happens to be the red states.

Go figure. Blue gets poor paying for red, and red demands lower taxes.

Well our choice to move to Florida a conservative run state which has a surplus was a smart move.

Go Capitalism ! Rock on