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  #121  
Old 06-15-2020, 02:29 PM
NotFromAroundHere NotFromAroundHere is offline
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Originally Posted by slbellmd View Post
You are missing the point. Acknowledging the mistakes of the past is not equivalent to celebrating them.
I think you might be missing the point.

None of the statues of southern traitors were erected to "acknowledge mistakes". They were all put up to celebrate those traitors.
  #122  
Old 06-15-2020, 06:08 PM
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Woodrow Wilson was not a traitor. He was a president. He was a scholar. He supported womens' suffrage and the League of Nations. His racism was only one part of his personna. Should we have removed his statue from Princeton University? Or should Black Americans walk by it every day as proof he was wrong about race. Don't remove it and hide it; talk about it.
  #123  
Old 06-15-2020, 07:46 PM
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Originally Posted by NotFromAroundHere View Post
I think you might be missing the point.

None of the statues of southern traitors were erected to "acknowledge mistakes".

They were all put up to celebrate those traitors.
YEP...EXACTLY!

AND to try and intimidate those protesting about and wanting to eliminate...Jim Crow laws.
  #124  
Old 06-15-2020, 08:00 PM
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I just love the way some just skim over the posts they don't like or agree with.
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  #125  
Old 06-15-2020, 08:10 PM
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Originally Posted by Stu from NYC View Post
You do realize that ended 55 plus years ago in terms of separate facilities which of course was incredibly wrong.

Slavery end over 150 years ago perhaps you should get over it.

I have a better idea.

Are you standing up...after watching this?

And this certainly isn't...55+ years ago.


  #126  
Old 06-15-2020, 08:38 PM
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Originally Posted by slbellmd View Post
You are missing the point. Acknowledging the mistakes of the past is not equivalent to celebrating them. No one is suggesting we start naming new streets and erecting new statues to past mistakes. The presence of evidence of these things should serve as a reminder of where we have been and where we should go. When your children made mistakes, did you hope they learned from them and became better persons, or did you disown them? And what happens when the next generation of revisionists comes along and obliterates all of your versions of history?
The statues were not historical, they were propaganda. There is no revisionism going on here, there are no facts in dispute. Society is evolving and the statues are becoming more and more distasteful.
  #127  
Old 06-16-2020, 06:52 AM
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We should remove ALL statues in this country. Someone is always offended by something.

We could replace them all with pacifier statues.
  #128  
Old 06-16-2020, 07:49 AM
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Originally Posted by Bay Kid View Post
We should remove ALL statues in this country. Someone is always offended by something.

We could replace them all with pacifier statues.
Sad isnt it
  #129  
Old 06-16-2020, 08:10 AM
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Where was all this hate for historic statues/etc last month? Last year?

I say once again to be concluding the intent of history using the current social yard stick is unfair/inaccurate/wrong.

The current upheaval is once again sponsored by minority and special interest groups driven by a political/personal agenda, validated and promoted by the same political supported media.
  #130  
Old 06-16-2020, 08:49 AM
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Originally Posted by roscoguy View Post
OK then, how about multi-ethnic denial. Getting over it isn't all that easy for people that have been living with discrimination for hundreds of years and still are.
Like I said, no one should be "living with discrimination" today.

First, whether or not you know any slaves or owners is moot. Neither do I, but the practice did legally exist in this country for nearly 250 years.
Second, I never argued for reparations, but did say that following through with Gen Sherman's promise of 40 acres & a mule when it was first made, would have cost relatively little & may have gone a long ways to ease the pain of the released slaves. But obviously, that never happened.
Lastly, IF reparations were ordered by the federal government, your personal or family history in this country would not even be a consideration. A similar situation would be if someone moved to a country that was heavily sanctioned by the U.S. and said, "Why me?!?! What did I do to deserve this?"

I dunno. Again, I was not the one who raised the idea of reparations and truthfully, I doubt that it could do a lot of good at this late date. I suppose a lot of people could have a case; none stronger than African-Americans and Native Americans, IMO.
Saying it hasn't really helped much so far.
How would ANYONE have a "case" for reparations? Would they be granted it based on the color of their skin?
How many ways does the country have to say that it's sorry for what folks in the past did? When I said this before, I was including the means of saying "sorry" such as affirmative action/quotas, school grants to minorities, quotas, etc. Is holding today's taxpayer accountable for someone else's mistakes, not the same as punishing the innocent?
  #131  
Old 06-16-2020, 08:52 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by billethkid View Post
Where was all this hate for historic statues/etc last month? Last year?

I say once again to be concluding the intent of history using the current social yard stick is unfair/inaccurate/wrong.

The current upheaval is once again sponsored by minority and special interest groups driven by a political/personal agenda, validated and promoted by the same political supported media.
I do not understand where all this hatred really comes from.

This is the greatest country in the history of the world where we have more freedom and chance to make something of ourselves with people wanting to come here by the millions and yet so many of our citizens hate this country.

Do some groups have it more difficult than others. Yes but they have the opportunity to help themselves but do not see how destruction is the answer.

Burn down my business, cause me to lose my job, block the roads does that really going to get people to look at a cause more favorably?
  #132  
Old 06-16-2020, 10:36 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bay Kid View Post
Will people be happy once all the remembrance of the past is removed?
I add ..In Search of Lost Time - Wikipedia all 7 volumes
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  #133  
Old 06-16-2020, 12:28 PM
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So you are now the great emancipator. You don't have the right to tell me, or anyone, what we should know about our history. I want to know it all, otherwise we will make the same mistakes. If you had it your way, I guess you wouldn't even teach history. As long as race is used as an excuse to make bad or no decisions about your life, you will always lose and racism will not go away. As long as you used race, injustice, or whatever to burn, loot, and hurt other people you are the problem so it will not go away. Instead of removing something about our history, why not add something. All I see is all these people, you included, tell us all of the problems, but I don't see any useful solutions. Certainly, tearing down statues, burning businesses, looting, hurting people and taking over city blocks are not solution. Or, I ask you , are they?
  #134  
Old 06-16-2020, 12:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by billethkid View Post
Where was all this hate for historic statues/etc last month? Last year?

I say once again to be concluding the intent of history using the current social yard stick is unfair/inaccurate/wrong.

The current upheaval is once again sponsored by minority and special interest groups driven by a political/personal agenda, validated and promoted by the same political supported media.
If you actually choose to look/research, you'll find that this issue has been ongoing...for a LONG time.

Please note that this article was written in 2017.


Opposition to confederate statues and flags (poke here)

Quote:
As you can see in the timeline below, the number of Confederate memorial installations peaked around 1910 — 50 years after the end of the Civil War and at the height of Jim Crow, an era defined by segregation and disenfranchisement laws against black Americans.

Confederate installations spiked again in the 1950s and 1960s, during the Civil Rights Movement.
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  #135  
Old 06-16-2020, 12:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mtlee024 View Post
So you are now the great emancipator. You don't have the right to tell me, or anyone, what we should know about our history. I want to know it all, otherwise we will make the same mistakes. If you had it your way, I guess you wouldn't even teach history. As long as race is used as an excuse to make bad or no decisions about your life, you will always lose and racism will not go away. As long as you used race, injustice, or whatever to burn, loot, and hurt other people you are the problem so it will not go away. Instead of removing something about our history, why not add something. All I see is all these people, you included, tell us all of the problems, but I don't see any useful solutions. Certainly, tearing down statues, burning businesses, looting, hurting people and taking over city blocks are not solution. Or, I ask you , are they?
Most decent and reasonable folks...don't want them destroyed.

They're too valuable as a learning & teaching moment...to do that.

Just take them off of school grounds, courthouses and other prominent public locations, put them where school children can make field trips...and learn the actual history behind those statues and monuments.
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