Logic of Leaving Behind Logic of Leaving Behind - Page 4 - Talk of The Villages Florida

Logic of Leaving Behind

Closed Thread
Thread Tools
  #46  
Old 08-30-2021, 03:28 PM
jimjamuser jimjamuser is offline
Sage
Join Date: Mar 2018
Posts: 9,860
Thanks: 6,855
Thanked 2,237 Times in 1,805 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by tvbound View Post
"I guess we could have just evacuated like we did with the Kurds and left everyone behind."

THAT is a 'stain of shame,' that can never be washed away.
I agree with the contents of that post. The Kurds were good fighters and good allies and we left them to die. We keep doing stunts like that and Britain, Germany, and Australia will never trust us enough to be allies again.
  #47  
Old 08-30-2021, 03:43 PM
jimjamuser jimjamuser is offline
Sage
Join Date: Mar 2018
Posts: 9,860
Thanks: 6,855
Thanked 2,237 Times in 1,805 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by GrumpyOldMan View Post
Thank you, and to add to your excellent reply, we TOLD them we were getting out in May. That was the agreement we made. Then for whatever reason, we delayed the departure until now. That would emphasize your point of people hearing but not believing. I expect (I do not know) that the pull-out was delayed to better prepare for the exit.

And, also, I EXPECT/THINK the plan was to trust the Afgan military to hold for at least a few weeks or months so we could transfer security to them as we pulled out. What appears to have happened is the Taliban told the Afgan military, stand down and accept a bribe or die. And they chose to stand down. At least that is what appears to have happened. If so, yes, it was a serious mistake to trust them - I don't know what we did, if we did. It is just conjecture on my part.
I question why we did NOT wait until the WINTER to start to pull out. For some reason (?) the Taliban likes to go back home (to outlying areas, I suppose) for the winter and prefers to fight in the summer. It could be because the mountain passes and roads are not functional in WINTER? I do not KNOW for sure and would like some Afghanistan veteran to straighten me out on this score.
  #48  
Old 08-30-2021, 04:20 PM
dewilson58's Avatar
dewilson58 dewilson58 is offline
Sage
Join Date: May 2013
Location: South of 466a, if you don't like me.......I live in Orlando.
Posts: 12,816
Thanks: 1,011
Thanked 11,011 Times in 4,202 Posts
Default

Congrats on the thread lasting more than 5 minutes!!!


__________________
Identifying as Mr. Helpful
  #49  
Old 08-30-2021, 04:21 PM
Toymeister's Avatar
Toymeister Toymeister is offline
Platinum member
Join Date: Sep 2016
Posts: 1,766
Thanks: 364
Thanked 2,449 Times in 779 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by OrangeBlossomBaby View Post
The fact that Biden has been able to get thousands of our people and refugees out safely is pretty impressive. It could have gone more smoothly, sure. It also could've been disastrous. There were victims of this war throughout the last 20 years. Over 2400 US troops were already killed in Afghanistan during the conflict, before Biden was even elected President.
As someone who was there I can assure you that no President deserves credit for this evacuation. That goes to the Airmen and Soliders and the untold thousands of federal employees, logisticians, DoD contractors, not the president, not by a long shot.
  #50  
Old 08-30-2021, 04:33 PM
jimjamuser jimjamuser is offline
Sage
Join Date: Mar 2018
Posts: 9,860
Thanks: 6,855
Thanked 2,237 Times in 1,805 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Neils View Post
No politics here

Wonder why we could maintain a very large base in Germany for about 75 years after we defeated the Nazi and help ensure a stable government. Same for Japan. Same for Manila.

But now a relatively small force left in Afghanistan that mostly operated air power and intelligence services for the remote locations from a secure base at Bagram was deemed urgent to close.

I question why our leaders are making these decisions.
Germany and Japan had an HONORABLE military and governments that SIGNED a SURRENDER agreement with the US. The Afghanistan Taliban were a loose coalition of about 15 stone-age tribes that never stopped fighting because they knew that eventually, we would leave. 20 years ago no top country wanted to stay there because Afghanistan had NOTHING worth trading for. Today, it is a little different because Afghanistan has lithium. But, it is in remote mountains and roads are a problem.
  #51  
Old 08-30-2021, 04:36 PM
John Mayes John Mayes is offline
Veteran member
Join Date: Feb 2021
Posts: 526
Thanks: 444
Thanked 543 Times in 228 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by dewilson58 View Post
congrats on the thread lasting more than 5 minutes!!!


lol!!
  #52  
Old 08-30-2021, 04:56 PM
jimjamuser jimjamuser is offline
Sage
Join Date: Mar 2018
Posts: 9,860
Thanks: 6,855
Thanked 2,237 Times in 1,805 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Papa_lecki View Post
I grew up in Afghanistan, Pakistan, Liberia - father was CIA. he sept his career in the Middle East. We (and other Americans) were evacuated form Pakistan, to Afghanistan and from Liberia to US.



In both cases, state department (it’s not the military, its the state department with the CIA who knows) knew EXACTLY what and where things were happening. you don’t provide billions of assistance and not get that information.
Dad still knows a thing or two. This is from him..
State Department knows where and who every American is, don’t kid yourself. They could have gotten everyone out if they wanted. Maybe not the spouse of an Afghan living in a village who doesn’t want to leave. Most did not want to get left behind. The Afghans who provided support to the US certainly didn’t think the Taliban was ever coming back in control - do you think they would have supported us?
The whole pull out of Afghanistan was not supposed to happen, it was a political talking point. Neither president (the R or the D) would have pulled the troops out.
We had fairly low troop numbers, generally staying on the airbase. Afghan’s were providing security, we were providing air support. It was expensive, we were paying the afghan troops and bribing the village leaders.
We have 3.5 million troops in South Korea, 60,000 in Germany, 50,000 in Japan.
China put pressure on the US to get out of Afghanistan and we (someone) caved to the pressure.
Some (?) country that doesn't like us probably put pressure on to get us out of Afghanistan. It may have been for Lithium? It could have been to prevent the US from controlling a country like Afghanistan which has a strategic location? It could be a country that wants to see the heroin trade continue?
  #53  
Old 08-30-2021, 05:26 PM
jimjamuser jimjamuser is offline
Sage
Join Date: Mar 2018
Posts: 9,860
Thanks: 6,855
Thanked 2,237 Times in 1,805 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Toymeister View Post
As someone who was there I can assure you that no President deserves credit for this evacuation. That goes to the Airmen and Soliders and the untold thousands of federal employees, logisticians, DoD contractors, not the president, not by a long shot.
If ANY President gets the blame whenever something goes badly, why can't that President get credit when something goes right?
  #54  
Old 08-30-2021, 05:54 PM
OrangeBlossomBaby OrangeBlossomBaby is offline
Sage
Join Date: Feb 2015
Posts: 10,345
Thanks: 8,294
Thanked 11,508 Times in 3,871 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Toymeister View Post
As someone who was there I can assure you that no President deserves credit for this evacuation. That goes to the Airmen and Soliders and the untold thousands of federal employees, logisticians, DoD contractors, not the president, not by a long shot.
Yes they all get the credit for doing all the legwork, the physical work, the strategic planning, logistics, arrangements.

But they wouldn't have done any of it if the President hadn't said "okay let's do that." He could've said no. He made the tough decision to say yes. He's being lambasted for it.

So if you want to give all those people the "credit" for doing it, then you need to accept that certain of the American citizenry are blaming Biden for all the things that went wrong - when - according to you, he didn't do anything at all. It was all those other people who did it all.
  #55  
Old 08-30-2021, 06:04 PM
ureout ureout is offline
Veteran member
Join Date: Feb 2010
Posts: 836
Thanks: 4
Thanked 552 Times in 168 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by dewilson58 View Post
Congrats on the thread lasting more than 5 minutes!!!



I agree... especially 1 of your threads
  #56  
Old 08-30-2021, 06:05 PM
billethkid's Avatar
billethkid billethkid is offline
Sage
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 18,534
Thanks: 0
Thanked 4,869 Times in 1,419 Posts
Default

the last plane has left and "....we are out...".

Discussion about who may still be there?
  #57  
Old 08-30-2021, 06:11 PM
Topspinmo's Avatar
Topspinmo Topspinmo is offline
Sage
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Somewhere over the rainbow
Posts: 15,113
Thanks: 7,598
Thanked 6,250 Times in 3,222 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by tvbound View Post
Had we just been smart enough to include the Afghani government in the withdrawal talks, instead of ONLY the Taliban, more than likely the whole country wouldn't have fallen to the Taliban in a record time - that no one could predict. At least smarter heads eventually prevailed, when the asinine idea of inviting the Taliban to Camp David on 9/11 was floated, to 'celebrate' the original May withdrawal. Let's hope we learned a big lesson here.
The Afghan leaders didn’t have problem getting out. So, they most had likely fly on the wall?
  #58  
Old 08-30-2021, 06:11 PM
DARFAP DARFAP is offline
Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2014
Posts: 373
Thanks: 2
Thanked 260 Times in 97 Posts
Default

There is no logic
  #59  
Old 08-30-2021, 06:13 PM
Topspinmo's Avatar
Topspinmo Topspinmo is offline
Sage
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Somewhere over the rainbow
Posts: 15,113
Thanks: 7,598
Thanked 6,250 Times in 3,222 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by jimjamuser View Post
If ANY President gets the blame whenever something goes badly, why can't that President get credit when something goes right?
I guess you don’t understand the ( ) system of us against them?
  #60  
Old 08-30-2021, 08:43 PM
Koapaka Koapaka is offline
Senior Member
Join Date: Nov 2019
Posts: 464
Thanks: 1,860
Thanked 650 Times in 226 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by billethkid View Post
the last plane has left and "....we are out...".

Discussion about who may still be there?

According to a tweet there were 7 busloads of American women that were blocked from being able to access the airport and are now in taliban hands....for starters Emily Miller tweeted "We’re dealing with Kabul. There’s 7 buses of female American citizens. The CG refused to open the gate. We have a congressman with us and he had the state department reach out. MG Donahue refused. 10 minutes ago the females were taken by the Taliban. They are likely dead now."
Closed Thread

Tags
logic, political, leaving, logical, people


You are viewing a new design of the TOTV site. Click here to revert to the old version.

All times are GMT -5. The time now is 12:18 AM.