[GrumpyOldMan]

Originally Posted by jdulej

You are correct, IMO. I should have added to my comment - not only do "they" come up with phony reasons to start a war, but "we" keep falling for the same BS over and over. We all get to act all patriotic while someone else fights and dies. I was somewhat surprised to find that only about 1% of Americans actually participate in the military. Maybe we need the draft again, but no deferments (none!) and kids are drafted in order of their parents adjusted gross income - high to low.

I am a fan of a SciFi author named Heinlein. He wrote a novel called Starship Troopers. In it, he proposed that there should be two levels of citizenship - "citizen" and "resident". Citizens have all rights and can vote. Residents get to live as second class citizens, can't vote, etc. In order to become a citizen you had to serve a tour in the military. In addition, carrying hand guns was mandatory - for citizens, and anyone could challenge anyone to a duel, refusing to accept the challenge would result in the loss of your citizenship status. (Of course accepting the duel usually resulted in one of the two losing it - LOL).

Anyway. It was interesting to read how he felt those laws would affect society. I dis agree with him, but he did propose it would lead to a much more polite society, since insulting someone could lead to a duel.

[tvbound]

Originally Posted by GrumpyOldMan

I am a fan of a SciFi author named Heinlein. He wrote a novel called Starship Troopers. In it, he proposed that there should be two levels of citizenship - "citizen" and "resident". Citizens have all rights and can vote. Residents get to live as second class citizens, can't vote, etc. In order to become a citizen you had to serve a tour in the military. In addition, carrying hand guns was mandatory - for citizens, and anyone could challenge anyone to a duel, refusing to accept the challenge would result in the loss of your citizenship status. (Of course accepting the duel usually resulted in one of the two losing it - LOL).

Anyway. It was interesting to read how he felt those laws would affect society. I dis agree with him, but he did propose it would lead to a much more polite society, since insulting someone could lead to a duel.

"Starship Troopers"


"Bugs! Bugs! We've Got Bugs!" LOL

[GrumpyOldMan]

Originally Posted by tvbound

"Starship Troopers"


"Bugs! Bugs! We've Got Bugs!" LOL

Yup, another closet Heinlein fan! Hoorah!

[Neils]

Originally Posted by Bay Kid

Do we make anything in America anymore? Seems like everything is made in other countries.

Sure. Anerica prints money. Lots of it!!

[JMintzer]

Originally Posted by GrumpyOldMan

I didn't say the higher tax rate caused the growth, I am saying we became the worlds largest economy despite it. It did not prevent or discourage people from finding ways to make even more money.

And they found a way to make money despite the recent (post Y2K) tax increases...

They moved offshore, and moved jobs with them...

[JMintzer]

Originally Posted by tvbound

"Starship Troopers"


"Bugs! Bugs! We've Got Bugs!" LOL

Don't forget Denise Richards in one of her first major motion picture roles...

[GrumpyOldMan]

Originally Posted by JMintzer

And they found a way to make money despite the recent (post Y2K) tax increases...

They moved offshore, and moved jobs with them...

The majority of jobs lost, I think about 85%, have been lost to automation. And that is just the tip of the iceberg we are heading for. The only suggestion I have seen to deal with the massive loss of jobs we are heading for is to implement an “automation tax” and use it to fund UBI for those that are displaced by automation.

Stanford has and excellent series on the coming changes and potential impacts and they are streaming it all on YouTube. Leaders in economics, ethics, AI, business etc having discussions and debates. I think you might enjoy it.

Stanford HAI - YouTube

[JMintzer]

Originally Posted by GrumpyOldMan

The majority of jobs lost, I think about 85%, have been lost to automation. And that is just the tip of the iceberg we are heading for. The only suggestion I have seen to deal with the massive loss of jobs we are heading for is to implement an “automation tax” and use it to fund UBI for those that are displaced by automation.

Stanford has and excellent series on the coming changes and potential impacts and they are streaming it all on YouTube. Leaders in economics, ethics, AI, business etc having discussions and debates. I think you might enjoy it.

Stanford HAI - YouTube

Can you please cite the source to that 85% claim? Thanks in advance...

[Byte1]

Americans enjoy living like or emulating the wealthy. Cheap products allow us to enjoy the luxuries of the wealthy lifestyle without the price of long hard work and investing. We live well. American products often cost more because thanks to unions, federal labor laws and restrictions, the cost to produce is expensive. So, the cost is handed down to the consumer.
I will continue to use whichever product that allows me to live the most luxurious life possible, and choose American made only when I can afford it. I make no apologies. Loyalty to the origin of products only goes so far. Americans are the product of their own greed. My greed says that I will purchase my big screen TV that is made in Asia rather than do without the entertainment. My products from overseas may be inferior, but they are adequate to the extent that if/when they go bad I can throw them away and afford to replace them without taking out a loan. The U.S.A label will always be my first look when shopping, but reality may cause me to shop for the less expensive item.

[GrumpyOldMan]

Originally Posted by JMintzer

Can you please cite the source to that 85% claim? Thanks in advance...

You know, it is really annoying when someone calls me out on a made up number. The 85% is a number "tossed about", but I don't know if it is actually calculated anywhere.

Also, there is significant debate over the trade vs technology aspects of what is driving the job loss. Many will state the technology (automation) is minor and others will say major. Here is a paper from Dartmouth that I recalled reading a while back that analyses the debate. There is definitely a connection, and the connection is sensitive to the specific industry. As always nothing is really simple. Manufacturing has been hit hard by automation, farming is just now being impacted.

https://faculty.tuck.dartmouth.edu/i...f_2018_JEP.pdf

[jdulej]

Originally Posted by GrumpyOldMan

I am a fan of a SciFi author named Heinlein. He wrote a novel called Starship Troopers. In it, he proposed that there should be two levels of citizenship - "citizen" and "resident". Citizens have all rights and can vote. Residents get to live as second class citizens, can't vote, etc. In order to become a citizen you had to serve a tour in the military. In addition, carrying hand guns was mandatory - for citizens, and anyone could challenge anyone to a duel, refusing to accept the challenge would result in the loss of your citizenship status. (Of course accepting the duel usually resulted in one of the two losing it - LOL).

Anyway. It was interesting to read how he felt those laws would affect society. I dis agree with him, but he did propose it would lead to a much more polite society, since insulting someone could lead to a duel.

I'm a big sci-fi fan myself. Currently reading/re-reading the many books by Alastair Reynolds. Lots of long complicated reads which I enjoy.

[tvbound]

Originally Posted by Byte1

Americans enjoy living like or emulating the wealthy. Cheap products allow us to enjoy the luxuries of the wealthy lifestyle without the price of long hard work and investing. We live well. American products often cost more because thanks to unions, federal labor laws and restrictions, the cost to produce is expensive. So, the cost is handed down to the consumer.
I will continue to use whichever product that allows me to live the most luxurious life possible, and choose American made only when I can afford it. I make no apologies. Loyalty to the origin of products only goes so far. Americans are the product of their own greed. My greed says that I will purchase my big screen TV that is made in Asia rather than do without the entertainment. My products from overseas may be inferior, but they are adequate to the extent that if/when they go bad I can throw them away and afford to replace them without taking out a loan. The U.S.A label will always be my first look when shopping, but reality may cause me to shop for the less expensive item.

"I will continue to use whichever product that allows me to live the most luxurious life possible, and choose American made only when I can afford it. I make no apologies."


Perfectly exemplifying my earlier post, wherein I stated that - "we've done it to ourselves." Given that this post perfectly sums up the issue of the OP's original question/comment, this thread might as well be closed (and no, I'm not advocating that it be done) as it has pretty much run its course and the issue has been addressed, answered - and explained.

[tvbound]

Originally Posted by jdulej

I'm a big sci-fi fan myself. Currently reading/re-reading the many books by Alastair Reynolds. Lots of long complicated reads which I enjoy.

I thought Herbert's book 'Dune' was long, complicated and tough enough to read as it was - then I watched the movie. LOL

[GrumpyOldMan]

Originally Posted by jdulej

I'm a big sci-fi fan myself. Currently reading/re-reading the many books by Alastair Reynolds. Lots of long complicated reads which I enjoy.

Yup, good stuff.

[GrumpyOldMan]

Originally Posted by tvbound

I thought Herbert's book 'Dune' was long, complicated and tough enough to read as it was - then I watched the movie. LOL

Dune was in a class of it's own. Excellent.