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JMintzer 07-06-2022 08:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ptmckiou (Post 2113280)
Actually not true. Let’s take that statement to its extreme, to make my point. If you have two guys armed in a gymnasium full of children, and one has an AR-15, and the other has a 6-shooter, who is going to kill more humans in 60 seconds? Who is going to have to pause often to reload, to give police the opportunity to shoot him? Who’s victims will likely live (even though they were shot) because the holes are addressable by doctors, whereas they other guys bullets explode inside the body creating massive trauma to many organs, including ripping off limbs and decapitating victims?

The CAPABILITY of the gun IS THE ISSUE!!!!

Cho, the VA Tech shooter, killed over 30 ADULTS, armed only with 2 handguns, a .22 and a 9mm... He reloaded multiple times...

MartinSE 07-06-2022 08:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Joe C. (Post 2113300)
We are endowed by our Creator, the right to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness. Or so the document says. And I believe that our Creator, is God.

I am glad you believe in god. I don't. The quote is from the Declaration of Independence and has/had NO legal weight. I think you were implying it was from the constitution - which NEVER directly mentions God or Devine.

So, I will continue to say, the government grants rights in the constitution/Bill of Rights.

JMintzer 07-06-2022 08:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ptmckiou (Post 2113286)
The main purpose of the 2nd amendment is to have a ready armed “militia” if needed, instead of having to employ a federal army. You had to register to be in the militia, and what arms you had were monitored and the gov could take them away if you were taken of the register. Under no circumstances, is the citizens of the USA (armed as they may) going to win a fight with the US military. Never going to happen. They don’t have the resources or expertise of advance artillery that the military has. Therefore, it’s a moot point to keep saying the 2nd amendment is to keep the government in check.. Haaaaa dream on about that thought…

They said the same thing in Viet Nam and Afghanistan...

And no, you didn't have to "register" to be in the militia...The militia was every able bodied man...

And no, the purpose of the 2A was NOT to have a "ready armed militia"...

JMintzer 07-06-2022 08:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MartinSE (Post 2113292)
People don't typically (328 out of 328) decide, I wanna kill a bunch of people and go get in their car and drive down the street murdering people. It is not efficient.

Instead they say, "I think I want to kill a bunch of people" and they go get an AR-15. (MOST mass shooting that is the weapon of choice) What is the difference? One is large and can get most places where people congregate, guns are designed to kill (some people like to kill watermelons with them) and do it quickly and efficiently and they are easy to get into locations where lots of people are in close quarters.

Yes, the question of WHY that people decided to kill a bunch of people is a better question than what they used. But, in order to figure out why we have to gather information and study it and come to conclusions. We were going to do that, then a party got into office and make it illegal to study gun related deaths - care to guess which party?

Copycat crimes...

JMintzer 07-06-2022 08:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MartinSE (Post 2113294)
I will agree to take emotion out, if you agree to take god out. Our government/country is secular, and I believe all "rights" are government given.

Well, good thing the Constitution doesn't say that...

bluecenturian 07-06-2022 08:28 AM

As someone who works in the court system, they are a major part of the problem.

If a violent criminal pleads to a charge that “withholds adjudication” then they are not considered “convicted.” This is why someone who committed a crime with a weapon can “legally” buy a gun after he gets out of jail.

As a pro gun/2A supporter I find this loophole a disgrace. A person who is not exonerated from a felony charge, ie convicted or takes a plea, should be prohibited from purchasing a gun.

Johnsocat 07-06-2022 08:31 AM

Just some data...
45 states are open carry. 3 of which are considered to be the safest in our Nation: Maine, New Hampshire and Vermont
21.5 Million concealed carry permits in our Nation - of which, only approximately 3 Million of which carry every day.

ThirdOfFive 07-06-2022 08:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jammaiora (Post 2113272)
It's not all politicians, only the Republicans, who are supported by the gun lobbyists and gun manufacturers. It's all about money and greed. The US has more guns than population and more gun violence than the rest of the world.

Actually that would be Honduras, which has a gun-related homicide incidence per 100,000 of 60 per year. The U.S. has a little more than one-fifth of that, or 12.1 gun-related homicides per 100,000 per year.

Burgy 07-06-2022 08:33 AM

Add Semi
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Wyseguy (Post 2112894)
Automatic weapons have been illegal for almost 100 Years now.

Then we should add SEMI to the list, they certainly seem overly fast and powerful.

Caymus 07-06-2022 08:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MartinSE (Post 2113294)
I will agree to take emotion out, if you agree to take god out. Our government/country is secular, and I believe all "rights" are government given.


It must pain you to be near US currency,

Dantes 07-06-2022 08:44 AM

Well you are not a hunter Oregon owner
One thing you do not own an automatic you must have a federal license and special reason to have them because they are military type weapons they are not readily available for the public

billethkid 07-06-2022 08:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Burgy (Post 2113320)
Then we should add SEMI to the list, they certainly seem overly fast and powerful.

Then there are revolvers..... that are single action and can fire as fast as one can pull the trigger??

The "problem" is not the gun type!!

taruffi57 07-06-2022 08:49 AM

We have mllions of young males whose childhood entertainment has been violent video games. Also tough-guy movies where shooting people is the main action. What should we expect, when some of those young males are either not properly guided/influenced during their upbringing, or bullied, or had no Father around? It's not the gun.

ThirdOfFive 07-06-2022 08:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ptmckiou (Post 2113280)
Actually not true. Let’s take that statement to its extreme, to make my point. If you have two guys armed in a gymnasium full of children, and one has an AR-15, and the other has a 6-shooter, who is going to kill more humans in 60 seconds? Who is going to have to pause often to reload, to give police the opportunity to shoot him? Who’s victims will likely live (even though they were shot) because the holes are addressable by doctors, whereas they other guys bullets explode inside the body creating massive trauma to many organs, including ripping off limbs and decapitating victims?

The CAPABILITY of the gun IS THE ISSUE!!!!

What the above apparently refers to is the "R.I.P. round" which refers to a bullet that explodes when inside the body. Only problem is, they don't exist.

Well, that's not EXACTLY true. They did exist at one time for military purposes, but as an anti-personnel round they've been pretty much prohibited since the St. Petersburg Declaration of 1868, which specifically prohibits the use of “any projectile of a weight below 400 grammes, which is either explosive or charged with fulminating or inflammable substances” (ihl database ICRC "Rule 78. The anti-personnel use of bullets which explode within the human body is prohibited.")

The .223 Remington round, which is the round most of the AR-type rifles shoot, does not explode. It is actually pretty diminutive; the usual round is 55 grains which is just a bit larger in weight than the .22 LR round which tops out at 40 grains. Interestingly the .223 and the .22 LR are both the same CALIBER. But neither round "explodes". The .223 Remington does do more damage but that is due mainly to bullet velocity which causes cavitation, something the .22 LR round does not do, at least not to the same extent (though both can leave pretty impressive exit wounds).

OrangeBlossomBaby 07-06-2022 09:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Johnsocat (Post 2113317)
Just some data...
45 states are open carry. 3 of which are considered to be the safest in our Nation: Maine, New Hampshire and Vermont
21.5 Million concealed carry permits in our Nation - of which, only approximately 3 Million of which carry every day.

Other than very limited pockets of those three states, MOST people who have open carry licenses in Maine, NH, and VT don't actually open carry - except when they're out hunting.

That's the difference, I think. The mentality behind the communities in which open carry is permitted. Most CIVILIZED people don't walk around downtown Plymouth NH sporting an AR-15 strapped to their shoulder, or a pistol on their belt holster.

Yes, they can. But no, they don't.

When we get to a point in time in society when people in uncivilized areas (yeah I'm talking about Florida and Texas and Illinois) can CHOOSE to NOT open carry, that'll be the time when it's perfectly fine to permit it.


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