[Irishmen]

Originally Posted by graciegirl

I can find no evidence that people who are fully vaccinated account for 14 percent of hospitalization.

The Delta Variant is FAR more contagious and there have been many break through cases that I am aware of personally, but only one who was hospitalized: Dr. Boogie on this forum.

Just last month it was misinformation to say you could be jabbed and still catch and transmit. Then, it was explained it was the un-jabbed causing the outbreak. So whats the excuse for Israel, one of the most jabbed nations in the world is now on thier 4th wave of infections and thousands are getting sick, being hospitalized and dying. Israel is the canary in the mine shaft. A preview of what we are likely to face in coming months. Israel is already on they 4th booster. The narrtive of safe and effective is starting to get away from the establishment. Bill Gates is real happy these days....

[Velvet]

Originally Posted by Irishmen

Just last month it was misinformation to say you could be jabbed and still catch and transmit. Then, it was explained it was the un-jabbed causing the outbreak. So whats the excuse for Israel, one of the most jabbed nations in the world is now on thier 4th wave of infections and thousands are getting sick, being hospitalized and dying. Israel is the canary in the mine shaft. A preview of what we are likely to face in coming months. Israel is already on they 4th booster. The narrtive of safe and effective is starting to get away from the establishment. Bill Gates is real happy these days....

The problem with Covid that I see, is that the truth is very inconvenient. Anything else is better.

[blueash]

drducat
To think this is happening is outlandish.....

FDA ‘playing bait and switch’ with Americans, tricking them into believing shots currently being offered have been granted full approval when they have not – LeoHohmann.com

Posted by coffeebean
This is not news to me. I read about this as at least a couple of weeks ago right after the full FDA approval was given to the Pfizer vaccine. This is not being hidden from the American people and there is no bait and switch going on.

Quote:

Originally Posted by drducat
That is not correct...Pfizer is emergency use approved only...read the FDA paper and not msnbc or cnn...etc.

Of course ducat was corrected. He is getting his opinion from far right wing blogs.

Pfizer has received full FDA approval for their formula which is the exact same as the Pfizer vaccine already in use but under a different brand name. This is being reported on MSM. There has been full transparency about the differences.

and instead of admitting the error, learning from it, maybe even thanking the poster for adding to his knowledge and apologizing for posting false information, we get this reply

Originally Posted by drducat

Right and if you get really sick with a life long illness from the vaccine...you are on your own....unless you take the BioNTech label...then you can go after them but never Pfizer. they are protected.....so ask for the BioNTech label and watch the look on their face.

Ducat is wrong again. I'm not sure whose face we are supposed to look at, but his (or her) understanding of vaccine liability in the US is wrong. When you get almost any vaccine in this country the manufacturer's liability is covered by a federal program. This is not unique to Covid shots. It is true of the MMR, the DTap etc. All the Covid vaccines, not just Pfizer's are covered by the Countermeasures Injury Compensation Program. Vaccines for children and pregnant women are covered under the National Vaccine Injury Compensation Program which was signed into law by Reagan in 1986.

And there is no such thing as a stand alone "the BioNTech vaccine." The correct name and the name that was used in emergency approval is Pfizer-BioNTech COVID-19 Vaccine. Once Pfizer -BioNTech got full authorization for use of this vaccine in people 16 and older they then rebranded with a commercial name, Comirnaty, while the identical vaccine being given under emergency authorization is still Pfizer-BioNTech COVID-19 Vaccine for those 12 to 15. Further, the authorization allows the use of either of these vaccines in all circumstances where either is authorized, because they are identical. If all I have in my freezer is Comirnaty and I wish to vaccinate a 12 year old it can be used. If all I have is Pfizer-BioNTech and I wish to immunize a 60 year old I can use it. A Datsun is a Nissan, a Nissan is a Datsun. So simple to understand.

You can read the history of the association of Pfizer, a US company, and BioNTech, a German company in the development [all in Germany], manufacture, and sales of this vaccine.

[blueash]

Originally Posted by lkagele
Little difference in the death rate over the last 5 or so years. No doubt countries are 'cooking the books' for whatever reason when it comes to death rates. Last I looked, China was declaring less the 5000 COVID deaths. Does anyone really think that's accurate.

United States - Historical Death Rate Data
Year Death Rate Growth Rate
2021 8.977 1.090%
2020 8.880 1.120%
2019 8.782 1.120%
2018 8.685 1.220%
2017 8.580 1.240%

I finally found where he got those numbers that he is clinging tightly to prove Covid is a hoax...After all if US death rates did not go up, then Covid isn't killing people. From a google search see image below. What he did NOT do is click on the link where it says in a great big highlighted box

NOTE: All 2020 and later data are UN projections and DO NOT include any impacts of the COVID-19 virus.

Sometimes Google alone is not enough. But at least you provided another example of my sig line, that people will find something to support their opinion no matter how wrong their material may be.

[graciegirl]

Originally Posted by Irishmen

Just last month it was misinformation to say you could be jabbed and still catch and transmit. Then, it was explained it was the un-jabbed causing the outbreak. So whats the excuse for Israel, one of the most jabbed nations in the world is now on thier 4th wave of infections and thousands are getting sick, being hospitalized and dying. Israel is the canary in the mine shaft. A preview of what we are likely to face in coming months. Israel is already on they 4th booster. The narrtive of safe and effective is starting to get away from the establishment. Bill Gates is real happy these days....

I do see, and I do worry about the break through cases. In my home, daughter and I are once again staying away from the fun of painting and doing crafts at the rec centers and mostly because she so dislikes to wear masks for long periods of time.

I don't doubt at all that there are many break through cases. I just am skeptical that fourteen percent of those hospitalized with Covid have been completely vaccinated. I could be wrong.

We can banter all we want to on here but Blue Ash and Eagle are both M.D.s and they didn't get their certification out of a Cheerio's box.

They sometimes differ politically but they give us good info about medicine.

So grateful for both of them.

I am a retired person educated in Early Childhood Development. I had a lot of experience accompanying our daughter who was born with Williams Syndrome through many, many, many medical procedures and hospitalizations at a wonderfully skilled place; Cincinnati Children's Hospital. Every single person I met there were doing it by the books. They taught me to respect the traditional medical community. I have not changed.

[Byte1]

Originally Posted by Velvet

Well, Byte1, it is the unvaccinated by far, who catch Covid although that will likely change as the vaccine without a booster will be less and less protective to the vaccinated. And the ‘live free or die’ type tend not to get vaccinated in the first place. The virus looks for easy targets. Like them. Yum! It is resilient, it is a survivor. Are we?

The problem with your supposition is that you(and many others) are assuming that anyone without a vaccination and anyone without a mask are INFECTED and contagious.
What are the chances that you will encounter someone that is infected?
In such an encounter, what is the chance that you will become infected?
If infected, what is the chance that you will be hospitalized?
If hospitalized, what is the chance that you will DIE?
Taking all that into consideration , your best bet is to wear thick body armor and stay away from any area that has moving vehicles, do not use mobile transportation of any type, and drink only distilled water.
I have no problem with vaccinations. I also have no problem with those that do not get vaccinated. Looking at the law of probability regarding the chance of my getting infected with or without a vaccination and with or without a mask, I am not fooled by the media and the gov into thinking that I need a nanny to mandate every facet of my lifestyle. And patriotism is not an issue here, so lets drop that tactic.
I can support vaccinations but I do not believe in mandates of this sort.
But staying on subject, I am not sure whether or not I will obtain a booster. And as of this time, the booster is not really supported by the federal gov research. If and when they decide that it might be advantageous, I might consider it. But, since I am in great shape and better than many that have survived the virus, I may abstain from participation.

[Bill14564]

Originally Posted by blueash

I finally found where he got those numbers that he is clinging tightly to prove Covid is a hoax...After all if US death rates did not go up, then Covid isn't killing people. From a google search see image below. What he did NOT do is click on the link where it says in a great big highlighted box

NOTE: All 2020 and later data are UN projections and DO NOT include any impacts of the COVID-19 virus.

Sometimes Google alone is not enough. But at least you provided another example of my sig line, that people will find something to support their opinion no matter how wrong their material may be.

Thank you for taking the time to find that.

I cannot get exactly the same death rates, probably because I don't have the same population numbers that the chart is using. However, the numbers I calculate are close, right up until 2020:

Year : Death rate (/1,000)
2017 : 8.699
2018 : 8.723
2019 : 8.705
2020 : 10.432

[Byte1]

Originally Posted by Velvet

Well, Byte1, it is the unvaccinated by far, who catch Covid although that will likely change as the vaccine without a booster will be less and less protective to the vaccinated. And the ‘live free or die’ type tend not to get vaccinated in the first place. The virus looks for easy targets. Like them. Yum! It is resilient, it is a survivor. Are we?

I have never assumed that everyone I met had HIV, and I do not assume that everyone I meet has Covid. Guess I am an optimist. I have to disagree with you regarding the virus "looks for easy targets." I believe that the virus, IF/IF one has it resides in the infected and is ONLY going to infect others purely by chance. I believe I can walk past infected folks, even pausing a minute and not become infected. I believe that the chance of me becoming infected is less than the average social person, since I hardly socialize in groups. I am not part of THE COLLECTIVE and I do not believe in one hat fitting all. I have been vaccinated and worn my mask when shopping, and yet the virus infection rate is as high as it was a year ago. I have done my part and now I believe the virus should run its course. If you are diligent about staying away from others and keeping your hands clean, I believe you have a chance of surviving. If you are ill, stay at home and ovoid infecting others. When all is said and done, if we have half the population in the world, we have been successful. IMO.

[Velvet]

Originally Posted by Byte1

The problem with your supposition is that you(and many others) are assuming that anyone without a vaccination and anyone without a mask are INFECTED and contagious.
What are the chances that you will encounter someone that is infected?
In such an encounter, what is the chance that you will become infected?
If infected, what is the chance that you will be hospitalized?
If hospitalized, what is the chance that you will DIE?
Taking all that into consideration , your best bet is to wear thick body armor and stay away from any area that has moving vehicles, do not use mobile transportation of any type, and drink only distilled water.
I have no problem with vaccinations. I also have no problem with those that do not get vaccinated. Looking at the law of probability regarding the chance of my getting infected with or without a vaccination and with or without a mask, I am not fooled by the media and the gov into thinking that I need a nanny to mandate every facet of my lifestyle. And patriotism is not an issue here, so lets drop that tactic.
I can support vaccinations but I do not believe in mandates of this sort.
But staying on subject, I am not sure whether or not I will obtain a booster. And as of this time, the booster is not really supported by the federal gov research. If and when they decide that it might be advantageous, I might consider it. But, since I am in great shape and better than many that have survived the virus, I may abstain from participation.

Actually, I do not assume anything, just look at data that is available from anywhere in the world and about anything to do with Covid. I believe if one does not learn from others then one is due to experience it themselves.

[jimjamuser]

Originally Posted by Velvet

Yes, as of now, but it looks like the protection of the mRNA vaccine is dropping. And not proportionally to time lapsed since getting the vaccine, but logarithmically. Therefore the need for boosters.

Yes, it is dropping but NOT NECESSARILY DIRECTLY proportional to TIME-LAPSED. The time depends on the person's age - greater age means greater drop, in general. But, not for everyone. It also depends on the individual's inherent ability to RETAIN the anti-bodies that their own body produced against the CV - there are individual differences, based on some (?) yet to be studied internal human mechanisms for disease protection. Also, Co-morbidities, immuno-suppressant diseases, organ transplant recipients, and the medications taken for these and other diseases seem to negatively impact the effectiveness of the vaccine over time. AND there are probably MORE factors as yet to be studied.
Incidentally......it is interesting to note that 3 or 4 national radio hosts that WERE famously against vaccinations (so-called jabs) are now INFAMOUS for having DIED painfully of CV in a hospital. They stated that they WISHED that they had gotten VACCINATED. Personally, I would not be waiting for God to vaccinate me - I did and would again ask for an earthly vaccination against the deadly disease - CV.

[Bob.Betty]

that is why i don't get a flu shot either

[Velvet]

Originally Posted by jimjamuser

Yes, it is dropping but NOT NECESSARILY DIRECTLY proportional to TIME-LAPSED. The time depends on the person's age - greater age means greater drop, in general. But, not for everyone. It also depends on the individual's inherent ability to RETAIN the anti-bodies that their own body produced against the CV - there are individual differences, based on some (?) yet to be studied internal human mechanisms for disease protection. Also, Co-morbidities, immuno-suppressant diseases, organ transplant recipients, and the medications taken for these and other diseases seem to negatively impact the effectiveness of the vaccine over time. AND there are probably MORE factors as yet to be studied.
Incidentally......it is interesting to note that 3 or 4 national radio hosts that WERE famously against vaccinations (so-called jabs) are now INFAMOUS for having DIED painfully of CV in a hospital. They stated that they WISHED that they had gotten VACCINATED. Personally, I would not be waiting for God to vaccinate me - I did and would again ask for an earthly vaccination against the deadly disease - CV.

What! No Divine intervention for you? LOL

[coffeebean]

Originally Posted by drducat

Right and if you get really sick with a life long illness from the vaccine...you are on your own....unless you take the BioNTech label...then you can go after them but never Pfizer. they are protected.....so ask for the BioNTech label and watch the look on their face.

I am aware of this.

[coffeebean]

Originally Posted by blueash

Quote:


Of course ducat was corrected. He is getting his opinion from far right wing blogs.



and instead of admitting the error, learning from it, maybe even thanking the poster for adding to his knowledge and apologizing for posting false information, we get this reply




Ducat is wrong again. I'm not sure whose face we are supposed to look at, but his (or her) understanding of vaccine liability in the US is wrong. When you get almost any vaccine in this country the manufacturer's liability is covered by a federal program. This is not unique to Covid shots. It is true of the MMR, the DTap etc. All the Covid vaccines, not just Pfizer's are covered by the Countermeasures Injury Compensation Program. Vaccines for children and pregnant women are covered under the National Vaccine Injury Compensation Program which was signed into law by Reagan in 1986.

And there is no such thing as a stand alone "the BioNTech vaccine." The correct name and the name that was used in emergency approval is Pfizer-BioNTech COVID-19 Vaccine. Once Pfizer -BioNTech got full authorization for use of this vaccine in people 16 and older they then rebranded with a commercial name, Comirnaty, while the identical vaccine being given under emergency authorization is still Pfizer-BioNTech COVID-19 Vaccine for those 12 to 15. Further, the authorization allows the use of either of these vaccines in all circumstances where either is authorized, because they are identical. If all I have in my freezer is Comirnaty and I wish to vaccinate a 12 year old it can be used. If all I have is Pfizer-BioNTech and I wish to immunize a 60 year old I can use it. A Datsun is a Nissan, a Nissan is a Datsun. So simple to understand.

You can read the history of the association of Pfizer, a US company, and BioNTech, a German company in the development [all in Germany], manufacture, and sales of this vaccine.

Thank you for this host of information. I was not aware of the Federal program which covers recipients for adverse reactions and if an individual is harmed from vaccines. This is the first I am hearing this and I am thankful that people are not hung out in the breeze if they encounter problems from vaccines.

[drducat]

Originally Posted by Irishmen

Just last month it was misinformation to say you could be jabbed and still catch and transmit. Then, it was explained it was the un-jabbed causing the outbreak. So whats the excuse for Israel, one of the most jabbed nations in the world is now on thier 4th wave of infections and thousands are getting sick, being hospitalized and dying. Israel is the canary in the mine shaft. A preview of what we are likely to face in coming months. Israel is already on they 4th booster. The narrtive of safe and effective is starting to get away from the establishment. Bill Gates is real happy these days....

I keep posting this and here is one more time...a quick search finds data supporting this....Vaccinated are causing the variants why? Because this vaccine is a partial immunity vaccine....Non Sterilizing Vaccine...Only reaches B-CELL IMMUNITY...Thats it folks...simple as that. Vaccinated are infected and by shear numbers the virus figures out how to bypass this simple immunity from the jabs which creates a new variant.