[Bill14564]

Originally Posted by Caymus

Are you referring to a restaurant such as the Red Hen in Lexington VA. I'm sure you remember who they discriminated against.

Nope, had to look it up. No inconsistency here, what happened was wrong.

[manaboutown]

Bring back debtors' prison. Debtors' prison - Wikipedia.

[OrangeBlossomBaby]

No idea why my post ended up in this thread, I was replying to the thread about Lorie Smith, the web designer.

So on topic:

I was not in favor of universal loan forgiveness. What I was in favor of, was this:

100% full loan forgiveness to anyone whose student loan paid for school at either a defunct school, a school that was accredited when they took out the loan and ceased to be accredited while they attended or the year after graduating, or whose school was proven to have been deceptive in their recruiting and advertising (such as claiming they had a 90% hire-rate in the degreed field when they only had a 4% hire rate, for example).

Any federal school loan should be deferrable, with the student paying only interest during the year it's deferred, and the student should be allowed to defer up to two years total, at six month or one-year intervals.

Any short-term federal school loan should be allowed to refinance for a longer term. Example - a 5-year loan should be able to refi to a 10 or 15 year.

Any student loan taken out at fixed rates over 5.0% will have an adjustment of the interest rate, down to 5.0%.

[Pairadocs]

Originally Posted by Tvflguy

So many Bills etc are simply a measure to buy votes at all taxpayers expense. The most perfect example was the college loan debt. Simply awful IMO. Imagine those many thousands who just paid off their loans and this thing went through. And those who did not go to college, but their taxes are used for buying votes. How the politicians can justify this is terrible.

I for one applaud the SC for their ruling. But they will no doubt attempt to do workarounds.

You think they will actually begin "workarounds" ? Our Secretary of Education didn't wait 6 full hours to hit all the major networks with, "DO NOT be discouraged, we only chose the Heroes Act because it appeared to be the FASTEST way around, but we will immediately begin to examine the higher education act for a pathway (that was his double speak for meaning "loopholes". Frankly I think we need to put Machiavelli back on the mandatory reading list in schools, public schools, so even those who do not go on to higher education ARE "educated" in the ways of deception: how to appear to be fighting for a cause that will benefit a very large voting contingency, while at the same time, knowing it won't pass muster (or the U.S. Constitution if that matters ?) and it's not important anyway, it's the illusion of "fighting" for a benefit during the campaign season of a major election. What "if", what if books like Machiavelli's The Prince, Orwell's Animal Farm, Sun Tau's The Art of War, were not only read during the 12 years of FPE, but actually "taught", with discussion and illumination of the lessons contained in those books ? For that matter, what would our country be like if we did something as radical as make 12 years of free public education mandatory ? Not as it is today, but with a classical education in the Greek sense, reading, mathematics, science, philosophy,literature, civics and even history ! What if basic reading and writing were a requirement ? What if students were not permitted to leave school until literate ? Would any of this at least help to "fundamentally transform" our country ? If everyone studied The Opium Wars in public schools, would they at least be able to understand how the Chinese culture, thousands of years of being an "advanced" culture, would never forget and never forgive the devastating tragedy of opium addiction the western world introduced. Would it help us better understand what is going on today ? Yes, actual education may not be able to solve all our problems, but it would certainly be worth a try ! We've got nothing to loose by educating our youth ! What if... we even ended up with fewer homeless ? Fewer addicts ? Fewer people who rejected the very idea of personal responsibility for such things as home loans, education loans, auto loans, etc. There is a great deal of "buzz" out there about a plethora of "new think" books in our schools to teach the new "science", but there are some long forgotten books that need to go BACK into the curriculum. Many of them would enlighten students in such a way that they would recognize when they were being "gas lighted" only to obtain their votes ! Maybe "we the people" don't WANT that to happen ? ? Educated population, I don't know, it could be "dangerous" !

[retiredguy123]

The magnitude of this executive order is outrageous. For one person to be able to spend $500 billion, which is $1,500 per person for every man, woman, and child in the country, is absurd. One person should not be able to commit that much money with the stroke of a pen.

[jebartle]

We, as others on this forum, paid our student loans in full, the difference, our loan was 1/10th of the loans accrued by college graduates NOW, granted, they accepted the conditions that the benefits a college education would enhance their future EVENTUALLY, and of course it SHOULD BE PAID and not by the tax-payer that fulfilled their obligation but by the college graduate, not by forgiveness of loan but a financial plan that allows the graduate a timely solution.

[OrangeBlossomBaby]

Originally Posted by jebartle

We, as others on this forum, paid our student loans in full, the difference, our loan was 1/10th of the loans accrued by college graduates NOW, granted, they accepted the conditions that the benefits a college education would enhance their future EVENTUALLY, and of course it SHOULD BE PAID and not by the tax-payer that fulfilled their obligation but by the college graduate, not by forgiveness of loan but a financial plan that allows the graduate a timely solution.

Except in the case of a school that loses its accreditation, or goes out of business, or otherwise renders their degree invalid. In that case, it's the school that should return the funds to the government, not the student.

[kp11364]

To me, a "loan" (student or otherwise) is borrowing something that is not yours that you have agreed to return at a specified time with recompense to the lender for depriving him/her of that something.

And you need to use the "R" word (responsibility) and (gasp!) common sense. If you take out a student loan with a major of Etruscan dance therapy, don't expect me to feel sorry for you if you can only get a job as a dog walker. YOU made that decision and YOU signed the agreements.

Similarly, the previous entries with the MBA graduates who have to put off buying a house or giving up their "dream car" I don't feel sorry either - don't spend more money than your expenses and if you have to put off a big-ticket item, so be it!

[Number 10 GI]

I've related this story before on another thread about student loans. The granddaughter of our friends went to a small university in their home town. She lived at home with her parents and worked during the summer and school breaks for her tuition and spending money. Her parents aren't rich by any standard so there was no financial help from them. Her grandparents aren't rich either, but they were able help a bit with tuition. She worked her butt off in high school graduating with an excellent grade point average that helped her get a small scholarship. She was taking advertising courses and got her Bachelors in that field. Then she started taking online classes for an MBA because it was much more affordable than in school classes. She paid for this by working at various jobs while still living at home.
Finished her MBA and got a job at the corporate headquarters of Caterpillar in Texas working in their marketing department. Excellent salary and no student loans. Didn't need a degree from some ivy league school that costs thousands of dollars in tuition to get a job with a large multinational corporation.

[mtdjed]

Originally Posted by gatorbill1

I guess the Supreme Court does get some things right, but not too many.

Some of the Justices got it right. The other 3 obviously have not had a chance to ever review the constitution. Ladies, please read the US Constitution. Articles I and II could be a starter.

It is OK to have a personal preference, but you were selected to uphold the law. It would be presumed that you had a chance to glance at that sometime to believe that you could fairly serve as a Supreme Court Judge for the rest of your life. Your vote on this issue and your dissenting statement shows that to have been a very poor presumption.

Your dissenting statement doesn't even address the issue of law, but talks to wants.

Everyone knew this program was illegal when it started. Money was spent to get people qualified. Who pays for that dumb decision. Any student with a loan and believed this scam, obviously missed a few classes.

[shaw8700@outlook.com]

I applaud this decision of the SC. Any person that receives something for free won’t value it. Imagine if all the engineers, doctors, physicists etc . . . didn’t take their degrees seriously?

The bill only said $10,000 would be forgiven - hardly makes a drop in the bucket, but still. Nobody paid mine except me.

[OrangeBlossomBaby]

Originally Posted by kp11364

To me, a "loan" (student or otherwise) is borrowing something that is not yours that you have agreed to return at a specified time with recompense to the lender for depriving him/her of that something.

And you need to use the "R" word (responsibility) and (gasp!) common sense. If you take out a student loan with a major of Etruscan dance therapy, don't expect me to feel sorry for you if you can only get a job as a dog walker. YOU made that decision and YOU signed the agreements.

Similarly, the previous entries with the MBA graduates who have to put off buying a house or giving up their "dream car" I don't feel sorry either - don't spend more money than your expenses and if you have to put off a big-ticket item, so be it!

If you got a loan for a major in Etruscan dance therapy, and when you look for a job in the field all the employers tell you "we don't honor degrees from THAT school anymore because that school no longer has accreditation with any educational organization and have been deemed fraudulent" - then you should not have to pay back the loan. The school should have to pay back the loan. They're the ones who have the money, who committed fraud, and cheated both the student and the lending group.

[tuccillo]

Not really. A degree earned from a university, before the loss of accreditation, is certainly valid. There is nothing fraudulent about the degree. Do you actually have a college degree? It certainly is not a desirable situation and may require some explanation to potential employers. The situation may not be that much different than having a degree from a university that has closed. What happens to the school after you have attended/received your degree should not impact whether you are responsible for your student loans. I would certainly make sure I have a copy of my transcript. As you get older, it is typical that your documentable career accomplishments, publications, networking, etc. are more important than where you went to school. I have been on numerous selection committees. Where someone went to school was certainly looked at but it was by no means the only thing I looked at. If you are currently attending a university that is losing or has lost it's accreditation then you may have some issues. Transferring as soon as possible to another institution may be advisable. Accreditation can be lost for a number of reasons. To claim there is fraud involved without knowing the details is nonsensical.

Originally Posted by OrangeBlossomBaby

If you got a loan for a major in Etruscan dance therapy, and when you look for a job in the field all the employers tell you "we don't honor degrees from THAT school anymore because that school no longer has accreditation with any educational organization and have been deemed fraudulent" - then you should not have to pay back the loan. The school should have to pay back the loan. They're the ones who have the money, who committed fraud, and cheated both the student and the lending group.

[Kelevision]

Originally Posted by Rainger99

If you get your facts from MSNBC, the plaintiff (Ms. Smith) is a bigot who hates all gays.

However, if you read the decision, it states that "Ms. Smith stated that she will gladly conduct business with those having protected characteristics so long as the custom graphics and websites she is asked to create do not violate her beliefs. Ms. Smith stresses that she does not create expressions that defy any of her beliefs for any customer, whether that involves encouraging violence, demeaning another person, or promoting views inconsistent with her religious commitments."

Would you require a bakery owned by a person who is pro-abortion to bake a cake for a pro-life person that says "abortion is wrong"?

The problem isn’t only MSNBC, it’s also Fox, and any extreme right or left leaning “news”. If you want real news, BBC, APNews, Reuters are all good choices.

[Kelevision]

Originally Posted by OrangeBlossomBaby

If you got a loan for a major in Etruscan dance therapy, and when you look for a job in the field all the employers tell you "we don't honor degrees from THAT school anymore because that school no longer has accreditation with any educational organization and have been deemed fraudulent" - then you should not have to pay back the loan. The school should have to pay back the loan. They're the ones who have the money, who committed fraud, and cheated both the student and the lending group.

This has been a sticky subject for a lot of people. I understand the idea behind it. But you bring up a great point. Not all student loans are created equal. Also, if it’s the interest that’s killing them, then do something about that. College isn’t free and it’s insulting to the thousands of people who couldn’t afford to go and couldn’t’ get a loan. Not to mention the ones who paid their loan off.