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Police Unions

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  #61  
Old 06-07-2020, 12:04 PM
J1ceasar J1ceasar is offline
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Trouble with your viewpoint is that how do you determine what is fair and Equitable from case to case. The point of the law is very simple what's good for one must be good for the next otherwise you have politicians who will decide to fire whoever they don't like.
  #62  
Old 06-07-2020, 12:07 PM
jimjamuser jimjamuser is offline
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Originally Posted by TexaninVA View Post
Yes, it's worse than that. They are destroying young kids' minds with revolutionary Marxist dogma.
Young people seem more "WOKE" than we the disappearing dinosaurs.
  #63  
Old 06-07-2020, 12:14 PM
jimjamuser jimjamuser is offline
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Originally Posted by iht2209 View Post
Lol really .... I hardly think they have the same capital as a corporate lobbyist. I would suspect 90 % of the politician’s today are owned by several companies and or counties. I really don’t believe unions have enough money to compete.
Point well taken! Can we say "Citizens United"?
  #64  
Old 06-07-2020, 12:15 PM
Annie66 Annie66 is offline
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Originally Posted by Number 10 GI View Post
No they just have sex with under age children.
That seems you're painting all those hard working, compassionate teachers who truly care for their students with a very broad brush. I think your comment, while it probably was tongue-in-cheek, was distasteful.
  #65  
Old 06-07-2020, 12:16 PM
ColdNoMore ColdNoMore is offline
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Originally Posted by jimjamuser View Post
Young people seem more "WOKE" than we the disappearing dinosaurs.

And thank goodness for that.

Although, it terrifies the living daylights...out of the old dinosaurs.
  #66  
Old 06-07-2020, 12:18 PM
jimjamuser jimjamuser is offline
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Originally Posted by J1ceasar View Post
Unions got workers healthcare and $60 an hour .
But unions killed GM and Chrysler etc . you see there is no middle ground to be fair in business or public works . everyone wants MORE . you can say because of unions and over regulation , China has succeeded in taking over our manufacturing.
Japanese steel and improved manufacturing techniques were more to blame than Unions. In my humble opinion.
  #67  
Old 06-07-2020, 12:20 PM
Number 10 GI Number 10 GI is offline
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Originally Posted by Annie66 View Post
That seems you're painting all those hard working, compassionate teachers who truly care for their students with a very broad brush. I think your comment, while it probably was tongue-in-cheek, was distasteful.
No more so than painting dedicated and honest police officers as racists.
  #68  
Old 06-07-2020, 12:24 PM
jimjamuser jimjamuser is offline
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Originally Posted by roscoguy View Post
Which unions "got workers healthcare and $60 an hour"??? Please show some factual basis for this claim. For the U.S. auto companies, a very large part of the average cost per vehicle difference is due to legacy/retiree costs, something the 'imports' aren't yet paying for. Foreign automakers have also been offered huge incentives to build, primarily in the south, which further reduced their costs.
Unions haven't "killed GM and Chrysler etc". This is a totally one-sided argument & completely exonerates the U.S. auto companies for their uninspiring design & poor business decisions from the 60's onward that concentrated on profitability to the detriment of innovation, quality and design. Unions aren't blameless in regards to the higher costs per vehicle, but dropping it all on their laps is pure BS.
Yes!
  #69  
Old 06-07-2020, 12:39 PM
ColdNoMore ColdNoMore is offline
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Originally Posted by jimjamuser View Post
Japanese steel and improved manufacturing techniques were more to blame than Unions. In my humble opinion.

You are absolutely correct.

And while American automakers kept building junk, that got horrendous gas mileage, then instead of changing to compete with the imports they spent hundreds of millions on advertising...talking about "buy American."
  #70  
Old 06-07-2020, 12:43 PM
jimjamuser jimjamuser is offline
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Originally Posted by transplanted View Post
Okay - I'm going to give you a real life example that I lived through with the FOP and the union and their defense of an accused police officer. January 2019. A police officer was the second on scene of a domestic issue, I'll call him Cliff. A drunk and high woman was, let's say acting out, at her "baby daddy's" home, demanding immediate physical custody of their 5 year-old daughter. The solution decided by the on scene commander was to remove the woman from the scene. Showing a bit of compassion, he chose to relocate her rather than arrest her. Cliff, deciding not to just drive her down the street and dump her at the 7-11, because she would just walk back to the scene and start up again, offered her a ride to the metro (subway) station so she could get home. She didn't have any money, having spent it all on a taxi to take her to another county to get to the scene. Upon arriving at the station and parking under a security camera at 5:30 in the morning, the woman refused to get out of the cruiser. Cliff offers to call a friend to come get her if she didn't want to take the metro. He calls the friend (with his number blocked) and leaves voice message. He calls back a few minutes later and the friend answers. Cliff gets out of the cruiser and walks a few feet away and offers the phone to the woman -- which gets her out of the cruiser, which he immediately locks. The woman talks to her friend on the phone, with people walking by, into the station to get the metro to go to work. When she is done, she demands Cliff take her all the way home - to a county outside his jurisdiction and he refuses. She asks for money to ride the metro and he gives her a $ rather than just totally leave her stranded. She then tells him "if you leave me here, you'll regret it." And Cliff drives off. Ninety minutes later, while finishing up his shift, Cliff gets a call to come straight away to the station. Upon arrival, he is swabbed for dna, his uniform, weapon, credentials, cruiser, etc., is confiscated and he's told he's under suspension due to an accusation of 'inappropriate touching' -- the actual description is over the top, but that's the category used. Allegedly all this touching, by the woman, who was wearing long pants, occurred in the front seat and in the back seat of the cruiser, in the metro parking lot, under the camera, and while all these people were walking by, and she was under NO restraints. The woman walks into the metro station and makes the accusation and is rushed off to a hospital for all kinds of testing. This is in today's world of the phone camera, where anyone would have heard any screams or seen any kind of scuffle, etc... yet there is no one reporting anything, no one filming anything - nothing. Okay - Cliff is sent off to suspension land to guess what the H is going on; having been officer of the year the previous year and awarded a medal of valor for stepping into a shoot-out to save a toddler's life. He must undergo psych therapy, wear civilian clothes to work at a desk job, be buzzed in and out of the office, give up ALL off-duty work and sit at a desk where all he can do is answer the phone and call someone in off the street if a report needs to be taken. Metro says they have jurisdiction to investigate and his own IA can't investigate until metro is finished. Of course the hospital tests reveal all kinds of 'activity' by the woman, but none of the 4 dna's they gather match Cliff's. A multitude of illicit drugs and an elevated level of alcohol are also found. By the next day, the local media catches wind and runs out to the metro to interview random people, telling them of the broad accusation and recording their shock at such behavior by the police. This is played on tv for several days, along with teasers that say "see the evidence at 9". I have recorded all those shows, and am still waiting to see any evidence related to the case. Okay - Cliff asks for an attorney as he wants to have the woman prosecuted when it's all over 'cause he knows he didn't do anything and the investigations will bear it out. He's told he'll get an attorney if he needs one during the investigations. Jump to May - 5 months later - metro has finished it's investigation and has been unsuccessful in finding the woman so they can ask her more about her side of the story, and baby-daddy refuses to cooperate with any investigation, 'cause he's the first to call the police for help, but doesn't want to help with any investigation... stellar citizenry in action. The local prosecutor sends EVERYTHING to a grand jury if it involves police, 'cause she wants to protect her backside - forget about the police officer. And since, you guessed it, this is a white officer and an african-american woman, we better triple make sure he didn't look at her cross-eyed. The grand jury subpoena's baby-daddy who still won't cooperate, and baby-mama is still hiding out. I say tell ME where baby-daddy lives and I'll FIND baby-mama... those two are gonna meet up over that child at some point! Grand jury says the case is BS and doesn't indict. Where is the media and their follow-up reporting... crickets... crickets... the crickets are deafening. So that all happens by May. IA now does their thing and finally, in August, Cliff is returned to duty. Having lost about $50,000 in moonlighting, having been shamed by the accusations, having gotten a good case of PTSD -- he has been refused a body cam, even offered to pay for it himself and told no, only certain units can have them, and he no longer wants to be alone in any fashion with a female 'suspect' for lack of a better word. And, oh by the way, all accusations, unfounded or not, stay in the record. And here's the best prize - for both him and the taxpayer who spent over $60,000 for the investigations, hospital tests, etc., they won't prosecute the woman because it might discourage true victims from coming forward if they think they might be prosecuted. Seriously. So forgive me if I seem a bit jaded about how the police unions, etc., protect the police officer. I lived this one - Cliff is my brother and I was living there when it all happened. Sorry to take up so much space, but this experience has greatly colored my world and vision of what I see on the news and what I know goes on in the background. I know he is not the only one who has experienced such politically correct nonsense.
One adverse example does NOT a universe make. Unions work well in Germany. The US is a "melting pot" which needs to be heated and stirred more. The lowest strata of ANY ethnic group has bad examples. Look to the current tax code as a foundation for problems.
  #71  
Old 06-07-2020, 12:55 PM
jimjamuser jimjamuser is offline
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Originally Posted by John_W View Post
That guy is just like the people who get up everyday and try and think of ways to sue Walmart. What am I going to do today to agitate the police and get myself on television. Even the black mayor of Buffalo called out the guy!!!!!! Kind of makes you look silly now to bring this up!!!


The Villages Florida

Buffalo, N.Y., Mayor Byron Brown (D) on Friday said he was told that the 75-year-old man who was pushed down by police in a viral video was a “major instigator” and an “agitator.”

“According to what was reported to me, that individual was a key and major instigator,” Brown told WBEN in a radio interview.

In a graphic video shot by a WBFO journalist earlier in the week, Martin Gugino is seen slowly approaching the police until one officer tells him to move and pushes him.

A person can be heard yelling, “He’s bleeding out of his ear!” and calling out for medics. Gugino is then seen lying on his back with blood spilling from his ear.

Brown claimed that the police asked Gugino to leave the premises several times as law enforcement tried to disperse protesters after an 8 p.m. curfew.

"He was trying to spark up the crowd of people,” Brown said. “Those people were there into the darkness. Our concern is when it gets dark, there is a potential for violence. There has been vandalism. There have been fires set. There have been stores broken into and looted. According to what was reported to me, that individual was a key and major instigator of people engaging in those activities."
The 75 year old man could have been any one of us in the Villages if we found ourselves in a position where we TRUSTED Police to uphold "serve and protect" and THEY got agitated and out of control. He should have been arrested peacefully. That way he could have a Judge or jury decide his fate. Now he probably has brain damage. He probably can NOT now be rehabilitated, which is ALWAYS better for society.
Since he was given NO rights he might as well have been in China or Russia.
  #72  
Old 06-07-2020, 01:12 PM
ColdNoMore ColdNoMore is offline
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Originally Posted by jimjamuser View Post
One adverse example does NOT a universe make. Unions work well in Germany. The US is a "melting pot" which needs to be heated and stirred more.

The lowest strata of ANY ethnic group has bad examples.

Look to the current tax code as a foundation for problems
.
Absolutely dead on!
  #73  
Old 06-07-2020, 02:53 PM
Byte1 Byte1 is offline
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The police problem is minute compared to the crime problem.
I agree with the premise that unions are bad. They served their purpose and are no longer needed, especially in the public sector. And Private sector, maybe.
  #74  
Old 06-07-2020, 03:00 PM
Stu from NYC Stu from NYC is offline
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Originally Posted by Byte1 View Post
The police problem is minute compared to the crime problem.
.
Agreed but that does not fit the agenda of some people.
  #75  
Old 06-07-2020, 03:31 PM
John_W John_W is offline
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Originally Posted by jimjamuser View Post
The 75 year old man could have been any one of us in the Villages if we found ourselves in a position where we TRUSTED Police to uphold "serve and protect" and THEY got agitated and out of control...
Are you serious? You're Not REALLY serious are you??

It Couldn't of Been Me, You wouldn't find me in a position like that, maybe you will, but I'm not that STUPID!!

The REAL story is, the mayor ordered the police to enforce his curfew. They arrived on the scene, set up a line and moved ahead at a slow pace clearing the street. This bystander, ran down the street and jumped in front of the line of cops, and even though they ordered him several times to move along, he disobeyed and stood erect and was pushed back and the man took a fall that any wimp would of been proud. They should just handcuffed him and hauled his ass to jail, instead they gave him break and he refused to obey, that's called Disobeying a Police Officer's Command, that will get you in trouble.


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Last edited by John_W; 06-07-2020 at 03:46 PM.
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