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Talk of The Villages Florida (https://www.talkofthevillages.com/forums/)
-   Current Events and News (https://www.talkofthevillages.com/forums/current-events-news-541/)
-   -   Protest (https://www.talkofthevillages.com/forums/current-events-news-541/protest-306981/)

Alana33 05-30-2020 12:21 PM
From the arrest report:

8:25:31 the video appears to show Mr. Floyd ceasing to breathe or speak. Lane said ”want to roll him on his side.” Kueng checked Mr Floyd’s right wrist for a pulse and said, “I couldn’t find one.” None of the officers moved from their positions.

At 8:27:24, the defendant removed his knee from Mr. Floyd’s neck. An ambulance and emergency medical personnel arrived, the officers placed Mr. Floyd on a gurney, and the ambulance left the scene.

PugMom 05-30-2020 12:30 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr Winston O Boogie jr (Post 1773494)
Who is silent? I hear a lot of white people condemning this act.

I just heard a commentator on television say that we need peace, but we also need justice. I hope that we can get justice for all of these business owners that had nothing to do with the actions of this police officer as well.
yeah, i'm with you. i dont know of any person of any color or background who condones this act of murder. someone asked what is 3rd degree? it's willfull misconduct resulting in death. this is what we have here. what's more scary is the fact that all those cops felt comfortable with this method of restraint-not 1 of them looks concerned. why was floyd on the ground? he was fully cuffed & in control. why were they sitting on him? i didnt see a struggle. the ny post had a video of minutes before he was taken down, & in no way did that look violent-he was already cuffed & sitting on the pavement next to the building nearby. ANOTHER irony is that both the cop & floyd used to work together doing security detail. !@%$!! a sickening situation all around, truly disgusting

rjn5656 05-30-2020 12:30 PM
Nothing but a bunch of thugs taking advantage of a bad experience.

ffresh 05-30-2020 12:33 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stuart Zaikov (Post 1773088)
If the police were allowed to do their jobs the looting would not happen. A certain segment of the population as described above have learned that free stuff is their for the taking.
"allowed to do their jobs" is a very broad term, unfortunately. Some might argue that Derek Chauvin, the officer charged with George Floyd's death, was "doing his job". The question of what is an officer's job is often posed and there are often different answers given. This is similar to what is the government's job, or primary responsibility in America; many different answers ensue. In the "old days" it seems there were fewer of these types of incidence, but the police were in a difficult situation, regarding looting and arson - what should the proper response be? Should deadly force be used to protect property, or, only life? Currently (right or wrong), there are a myriad of hi-tech tools at the disposal of most all urban police forces, e.g. pepper bullets, tear gas, rubber bullets, tasers, K-9 dogs, LRAD sound cannons, repellant spray, armored vehicles, riot-control gear, ad nauseum, making this an easier question to answer; lethal force, as a response, can often be avoided. There are really only two choices if the goal is to protect property: sufficient police presence (Natl Guard or LEOs) to maintain a defensive blockade and repellant force - almost impossible under most conditions, due to limited resources. Or, containing looters and arsonists using the above methods/devices. Both of these are dependent upon the orders received from their superiors, however, as to what and when any actions will be taken. If the order to protect property is not given, then the response will be minimal! Mayor Jacob Frey, in the press conference that I viewed was fairly explicit that (paraphrasing) buildings were not so important and lives mattered. This, in spite of all of the non-lethal options available :ohdear:

Having said all of that, inciting the people that we are speaking of with incendiary language should NOT be the goal of a responsible elected official

Mayor Jacob Frey (press conference - national TV):

"Being Black in America should not be a death sentence. For five minutes, we watched a white officer press his knee into a Black man's neck."

Shouldn't a more responsible and less inciteful comment have been:
Getting killed while in police custody should never occur in America and we will ensure that justice will prevail?

Fred :spoken:

PugMom 05-30-2020 12:35 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Don Ferguson (Post 1773725)
The actions of the Al Sharpton hatred industry have destroyed what I believe was the greatest chance for change in decades!

In recent riot inducing actions (Eric Garner, NYC and Michael Brown, MO) their were extenuating circumstances that justified police actions. This case as close to perfect as it gets, if you are looking for racial equality changes. Watch the 8 minutes of multiple videos and two things are unforgettable> (1) Mr. Floyd did nothing to deserve the treatment he got! (2) It is a systemic problem in the Minneapolis Police Department. That is absolutely proven by complete nonchalance of the other three officers observing the horrendous actions by Chauvin without the slightest concern of wrong doing, as they looked right into video devices recording them! In short, changes for the better would have been guaranteed IF the hate industry had stayed out of it. There was simply no argument available to oppose any requested actions.

INSTEAD the discussion is now centered on the disgusting destruction and ruination of innocent lives caused by mobs that simply want to break, burn and steal things!
nothing in eric gardeners circumstances required restraint that led to death. the dude was selling single cigs out a pack. he didnt run, strike or raise a fist.

Don Ferguson 05-30-2020 12:38 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by davem4616 (Post 1773776)
I get that there needs to be consequences for bigoted people with racist attitudes....and that needs be a piece of the puzzle...but if that's it, then it's just kicking the damn can down the street once again, the underlying systemic issues need to be addressed...otherwise, nothing ever changes
I find that comment a sad joke. WHAT ARE THE "UNDERLYING SYSTEMIC ISSUES"? That answer is laughably simple. The issue is a lack of love and respect between the two races! And how do you plan on legislating the answer to that?

The Jesse Jackson/Al Sharpton hate corporation could not afford to let this alone. This was one action that even a white supremacist couldn't justify. Good things would have happened for black folks if the riots had not happened to change the focus back against the minority supporters. When good things happen for blacks Jesse?Al et all lose millions in coerced donations.

Don Ferguson 05-30-2020 12:41 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by PugMom (Post 1773818)
nothing in eric gardeners circumstances required restraint that led to death. the dude was selling single cigs out a pack. he didnt run, strike or raise a fist.
Completely untrue. Eric Garner was a giant of a man that verbally, on video, refused to leave, and verbally and physically refused to be arrested. He forced the smaller officers to restrain him!

MandoMan 05-30-2020 12:58 PM
And that’s the news from Lake WoeBeGone, where all the women are rich, all the men are good looking, and all the children are above average.

The vast majority of Minnesota is blessedly free of the sorts of people who commit arson, riot, loot, or sell drugs. It’s a beautiful state with lots of lakes and fields and forests and people with blond hair and vaguely Scandinavian accents, like my ancestors.

Bucco 05-30-2020 01:19 PM
I am concerned about tonight. Reading and hearing that our government is circulating a “rumor” that supporters would/should be at the WH to face protestors, while criticizing the mayor of Washington (unfairly according to the secret service).

Should not everyone be in sync to stop rioting and return to peace ?

Stu from NYC 05-30-2020 01:26 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Don Ferguson (Post 1773820)
I find that comment a sad joke. WHAT ARE THE "UNDERLYING SYSTEMIC ISSUES"? That answer is laughably simple. The issue is a lack of love and respect between the two races! And how do you plan on legislating the answer to that?

The Jesse Jackson/Al Sharpton hate corporation could not afford to let this alone. This was one action that even a white supremacist couldn't justify. Good things would have happened for black folks if the riots had not happened to change the focus back against the minority supporters. When good things happen for blacks Jesse?Al et all lose millions in coerced donations.
Jackson and Sharpton are only interested in fostering hatred. Leave out the violent protests and criminality and more people of all races would be joining the protest.

Don Ferguson 05-30-2020 01:34 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stuart Zaikov (Post 1773843)
Jackson and Sharpton are only interested in fostering hatred. Leave out the violent protests and criminality and more people of all races would be joining the protest.
Amen!

Don Ferguson 05-30-2020 01:38 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stuart Zaikov (Post 1773843)
Jackson and Sharpton are only interested in fostering hatred. Leave out the violent protests and criminality and more people of all races would be joining the protest.
Saw a great reaction last night on TV. It was a Black Pastor named Scott. I think his exact words were: "Al Sharpton has NEVER in his entire life, been involved with a problem that he didn't make worse."

manaboutown 05-30-2020 01:52 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Don Ferguson (Post 1773848)
Saw a great reaction last night on TV. It was a Black Pastor named Scott. I think his exact words were: "Al Sharpton has NEVER in his entire life, been involved with a problem that he didn't make worse."
He plays the race card every chance he gets, even to evade taxes. Why is he "untouchable"?

Al Sharpton gets $1M in pay from his own charity, tax filings show | Fox News

People Jailed for Owing Less Taxes Than Al Sharpton | Fox Business

manaboutown 05-30-2020 02:04 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by rjn5656 (Post 1773814)
Nothing but a bunch of thugs taking advantage of a bad experience.
Black Firefighter Spent His Life Savings to Open a Bar. Then Minneapolis Looters Burned It Down

Stu from NYC 05-30-2020 02:45 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Don Ferguson (Post 1773848)
Saw a great reaction last night on TV. It was a Black Pastor named Scott. I think his exact words were: "Al Sharpton has NEVER in his entire life, been involved with a problem that he didn't make worse."
So very true

Stu from NYC 05-30-2020 02:46 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by manaboutown (Post 1773856)
One would hope they would immediately indict him for tax evasion, fraud and bad manners.

fdpaq0580 05-30-2020 03:26 PM
I was living in LA.
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dust Bunny (Post 1773794)
This is just an excuse to loot stores. I remember Watts, in LA what a mess. Nothing has changed !
I was living in LA at that time. It was ugly, terrifying and totally counterproductive as far as helping to unify people. The efforts of various groups trying to bridge the gap in understanding and compassion for our fellow man was thwarted. It was replaced with distrust, fear, anger and suspicion. I was in a school with students from all parts of LA and had friends from many backgrounds. After those riots a lot of friends were not friends anymore, they were just someone you used to know. It was incredibly sad.
The only ones who got anything out of it were the hate groups on all sides, pointing fingers at all the others saying, "see, you can't trust anyone." So, so incredibly sad.
Now a man is dead. His life cannot be restored to him. There will be no justice for him. And for the officers in question, it remains to be seen just what will happen, what will be determined. Our efforts, great or small, have been delivered a terrible blow as we continue to try and become a nation and a people truly United. May God help us.

Ramone 05-30-2020 03:41 PM
I lived just south of twin cities for 60 years. Moved here to TV 3 years ago. I kept up with Minn politics since. The Mpls mayors office has been run by one rink a dink after another for over 20 years, opposing police and law and order. That is how they got voted in. Whites like the kid pretending to be mayor now, or the black, and females before him. All anti law and order mayors. Now last year an old liberal school teacher who again does not support law and order voted in as governor. Now, they can't put the genie back in the can. Other police agencies don't want to chip in and help because of this attitude that the perpetrators rights come first.

mneumann02 05-30-2020 03:58 PM
Root Causes
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by davem4616 (Post 1773636)
I posted earlier in this thread that until the systemic underlying causes are addressed nothing will change....someone else also called out the need to address the 'root causes'...another individual jumped on that post asking for clarity on what the 'root causes' are.

this is not my area of study, nor profession, but IMHO... here's my shot at what some of the systemic issues just may be:

- these folks live with an absence of hope, folks in these communities have no expectation that their lives will ever change for the better

- education is totally under valued, it is not openly encouraged by parents nor the leaders in the community, yet openly discouraged by peer pressure, as a result there is no real learning...and it has little to do with the condition of the school building, teachers aren't able to teach

- the family unit has broken down

- drugs are rampant and gangs control the streets...the inner city deaths due to gang gun violence is horrific

- living off welfare has become a generational dependency, rather than being the helping hand to get up on your feet that was originally intended

- thugs like Al Sharpton that prop themselves up as leaders are merely in the game to line their own pockets....just like Adam Clayton Powell did for years in NYC

- the British couldn't handle a rioting mob back in Concord...some officer feared for their lives and shots were fired...nothings changed...our police are human beings, emotions are going to flare and things are going to happen that shouldn't

....not a very pretty picture is it....and these are just a few things

It's no wonder that these communities 'explode'...and destroy the very neighborhoods that they live in

each one of the above represent a huge, huge challenge

and what has our society been doing about it?

well, we keep on addressing the symptoms vs. the underlying systemic causes....yeah build a new school, yet do nothing about fostering respect for the teachers and for the value that an education brings by parents, grandparents, community leaders, elected officials...let's put the responsibility where it belongs and where it will do the most good

ya, start a war on drugs....all that does is push it further underground

continue to 'feel good' that we're listening to the likes of an Al Sharpton and giving him a voice (that crook should have been thrown in jail for tax evasion just like Al Capone was)

Bermuda also has a welfare system....it works because it doesn't create a dependency upon it like ours does....In Bermuda if you are unable to live a comfortable lifestyle because the job you have doesn't pay enough, the State will subsidize you so that you can. The only catch is that you have to have a full time job

If we continue to only address the symptoms nothing changes...it's just like "eating an English Breakfast" (it keeps coming back on you)

Hopefully greater minds than mine with the resources will focus on how to address the systemic underlying issues and put all the puzzle pieces together....
Agree with so much of what you said, especially "the family unit has broken down," which is the root cause of so much of the pain so many minorities suffer. And the suffering will continue until we change this. Too many fatherless families cause child discipline problems. Too many young girls, yes girls, having babies with no husband around condemns her to a life of poverty. Too many young people are taught to resist rather than comply- that racism is the root of all their problems when it is not. Lack of education is. If we can fix the family unit, we can fix the high school dropout rate. If we improve one's education, we improve job opportunities. Someone making $75,000/year is probably not rioting nor committing crimes. Here are two programs I never hear about- how about giving single mothers free child support and free tuition to go back to school and then a hard hitting program to better educate young girls that there is such a better life than having babies when you are barely old enough to drive?

Stu from NYC 05-30-2020 04:23 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by mneumann02 (Post 1773913)
Agree with so much of what you said, especially "the family unit has broken down," which is the root cause of so much of the pain so many minorities suffer. And the suffering will continue until we change this. Too many fatherless families cause child discipline problems. Too many young girls, yes girls, having babies with no husband around condemns her to a life of poverty. Too many young people are taught to resist rather than comply- that racism is the root of all their problems when it is not. Lack of education is. If we can fix the family unit, we can fix the high school dropout rate. If we improve one's education, we improve job opportunities. Someone making $75,000/year is probably not rioting nor committing crimes. Here are two programs I never hear about- how about giving single mothers free child support and free tuition to go back to school and then a hard hitting program to better educate young girls that there is such a better life than having babies when you are barely old enough to drive?
And why is the black leadership not out preaching young people to stay in school and not have babies until married?

Way too many condemn themselves to life of poverty with expectation of being supported by govt.

bobcat75 05-30-2020 04:25 PM
Rioting?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stuart Zaikov (Post 1772916)
If the officers are guilty lock them up.

When the neighborhood uses this as an excuse to steal and destroy neighborhood business they are nothing but criminals and should be arrested. Why stand back and let the looting happen?
I dont understand why riot. The cop(S) was arrested for stage 3 murder so the people got what they are rioting about, Oh free stuff I agree

carhirsch 05-30-2020 04:35 PM
I live half time in Minneapolis, the other half in The Villages. There are definitely outside agitators here with advanced skills In incitement and destruction.

oldtimes 05-30-2020 05:08 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by anothersteve (Post 1773333)
I always wonder about the "outspoken" on any particular "cause" actually. Do they practice what they preach? Oh..... to be a fly on some walls!
Steve
I have wondered the same, so easy to just pontificate but what do they actually do?

Love your new avatar and tag line.

ffresh 05-30-2020 05:09 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by fdpaq0580 (Post 1773893)
I was living in LA at that time. It was ugly, terrifying and totally counterproductive as far as helping to unify people. The efforts of various groups trying to bridge the gap in understanding and compassion for our fellow man was thwarted. It was replaced with distrust, fear, anger and suspicion. I was in a school with students from all parts of LA and had friends from many backgrounds. After those riots a lot of friends were not friends anymore, they were just someone you used to know. It was incredibly sad.
The only ones who got anything out of it were the hate groups on all sides, pointing fingers at all the others saying, "see, you can't trust anyone." So, so incredibly sad.
Now a man is dead. His life cannot be restored to him. There will be no justice for him. And for the officers in question, it remains to be seen just what will happen, what will be determined. Our efforts, great or small, have been delivered a terrible blow as we continue to try and become a nation and a people truly United. May God help us.
Unfortunately, but true nonetheless, there are many forces at work in this once-great nation, acting to shred the fabric of our culture, economy and, most importantly, our form of government. Men are being actively pitted against women, blacks (and other races) against whites, "straight" against LGBQT (and other letters), religious against non-believers, repubs against dems, ad infinitum. In order to totally change a country, you must first destroy the cohesive nature of its institutions - this is what we are witnessing and it is being continually "ramped up". Primary to this agenda is destruction of the family and religious beliefs. Divide and conquer is truly "the name of the game" and it's being gamed on all fronts!

Fred

jimjamuser 05-30-2020 05:40 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tennisbum (Post 1772824)
Most are not protesting, just getting their hands on free things and destroying others property.
I saw that one was shot by a shop owner. Need a few more of those to slow them down. 10 people were murdered in Chicago over the weekend and nobody raised an eyebrow, go figure!
Good answer to racial problems. Just shoot someone. Very empathetic.

Paper1 05-30-2020 08:05 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by carhirsch (Post 1773935)
I live half time in Minneapolis, the other half in The Villages. There are definitely outside agitators here with advanced skills In incitement and destruction.
The line being promoted now is the looting and rioting is being done by out of state agitators and white supremacists are also involved. I watched a news clip this morning showing shoppers at a Minneapolis store with five flat screen taken out of a burning building and I can very confidently tell you they were not white supremacists although they could have been Canadians.

Velvet 05-30-2020 08:22 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Paper1 (Post 1774001)
The line being promoted now is the looting and rioting is being done by out of state agitators and white supremacists are also involved. I watched a news clip this morning showing shoppers at a Minneapolis store with five flat screen taken out of a burning building and I can very confidently tell you they were not white supremacists although they could have been Canadians.
How did the Canadians get across a closed Border?

Stu from NYC 05-30-2020 09:03 PM
One black man gets murdered by a white cop and blacks burn down a neighborhood and destroy businesses owned by other blacks.

I do not recall another instance of a cop murdering a black man in several years.

This tell me the looters are looting because they can get away with it.

davem4616 05-30-2020 09:05 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ColdNoMore (Post 1773802)
Getting rid of bad cops, who are free to exercise their racism/bigotry (because other LEO's are afraid to speak up) and will therefore engender more trust in the police by communities of color...is a BIG first step.

Then we can begin addressing the other..."underlying systemic issues."

Which, if I might ask...what do you think those issues are?

if you read my previous post on this thread you'll see what I said I believed some of them to be

John_W 05-30-2020 09:08 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ramone (Post 1773902)
I lived just south of twin cities for 60 years. Moved here to TV 3 years ago. I kept up with Minn politics since. The Mpls mayors office has been run by one rink a dink after another for over 20 years, opposing police and law and order. That is how they got voted in. Whites like the kid pretending to be mayor now, or the black, and females before him. All anti law and order mayors. Now last year an old liberal school teacher who again does not support law and order voted in as governor. Now, they can't put the genie back in the can. Other police agencies don't want to chip in and help because of this attitude that the perpetrators rights come first.
Look, the mayor is a sock model!! I heard he even has matching panties!! Remind me to never visit Minneapolis!!

https://scontent-mia3-1.xx.fbcdn.net...27&oe=5EF93D78

davem4616 05-30-2020 09:11 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Don Ferguson (Post 1773820)
I find that comment a sad joke. WHAT ARE THE "UNDERLYING SYSTEMIC ISSUES"? That answer is laughably simple. The issue is a lack of love and respect between the two races! And how do you plan on legislating the answer to that?

The Jesse Jackson/Al Sharpton hate corporation could not afford to let this alone. This was one action that even a white supremacist couldn't justify. Good things would have happened for black folks if the riots had not happened to change the focus back against the minority supporters. When good things happen for blacks Jesse?Al et all lose millions in coerced donations.
if you had read my earlier post on this thread you would have seen what I believe some of the underlying systemic issues are...there is a huge difference between addressing the symptoms caused by an underlying issue and dealing with the underlying systemic issue itself

davem4616 05-30-2020 09:17 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stuart Zaikov (Post 1773056)
Agreed but to stand by and let businesses be destroyed by hoodlums is not helping anything.
Your right Stuart...these people are not demonstrating, they are now committing crimes

Bay Kid 05-31-2020 07:26 AM
Another night is over for all the thieves. City riots. We are a 3rd world country.

Bucco 05-31-2020 08:06 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bay Kid (Post 1774148)
Another night is over for all the thieves. City riots. We are a 3rd world country.
I agree but also disagree.

You feel this terrible situation is a result of one simple thing; one act that sent this turmoil.

On that I disagree. Was predicted, and even called for years ago, with no regard for race alone.

I DO agree that we are no longer the United States of America with "warts" at times, but a beacon for the world.

We are now "the states of America". With very little standing anywhere.

Bucco 05-31-2020 08:37 AM
Suggested reading on this.

This mornings NY Times, which chronicles US intelligence on Russian involvement in stoking unrest in our country using race, ties to white supremacist groups and their efforts to suppress voting.

And at the same time, breaking news is USA has arbitrarily invited Russia back to the G7.

Stu from NYC 05-31-2020 09:41 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bucco (Post 1774181)
I agree but also disagree.

You feel this terrible situation is a result of one simple thing; one act that sent this turmoil.

On that I disagree. Was predicted, and even called for years ago, with no regard for race alone.

I DO agree that we are no longer the United States of America with "warts" at times, but a beacon for the world.

We are now "the states of America". With very little standing anywhere.
Perhaps but there are better ways to handle this than by standing back and allowing violent and criminal behavior

Bucco 05-31-2020 09:59 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stuart Zaikov (Post 1774288)
Perhaps but there are better ways to handle this than by standing back and allowing violent and criminal behavior
I do not disagree with you at all

Hoping you will read the post right after that concerning the news this morning. (post 155)

As long as we IGNORE that kind of thing, and look for our old demons, we are playing the game just like they want us to.

As serious and as bad as the looting is, we should look for the cause as we punish those responsible, we need to find out what is the spark and we simply do not seem capable of doing that. We KNOW what it is.....it has been proven over time yet we ignore it.

The Times article I reference is not new news......it is simply ignored news and it is not what is called fake hearings in both the House AND the Senate establish this fact, yet we choose to ignore it and simply go on with our usual demons, which is how we have been "programmed"

Obviously you are in that camp, as reading your new posts on another thread, you find it better to mock and jeer instead of face our problem.

Get real 05-31-2020 10:03 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stuart Zaikov (Post 1774009)
One black man gets murdered by a white cop and blacks burn down a neighborhood and destroy businesses owned by other blacks.

I do not recall another instance of a cop murdering a black man in several years.

This tell me the looters are looting because they can get away with it.
One thing has absolutely nothing to do with the other. This is just "party time" for anarchists and those stupid enough to follow. This tragedy is just an excuse. I would bet that most never heard of Floyd.

Bucco 05-31-2020 10:05 AM
I suppose I am in the camp of worrying about my country. Not in the camp of always looking for someone else to blame...not how to solve problems. It seems to be always blacks, immigrants or those in the other party that are blamed for everything, and we all know that is incredibly wrong. This country was not built on blaming but solving.

It is clearly in front of us as we continue to ignore it

John_W 05-31-2020 10:09 AM
My wife just had on HLN, and the blonde commentator Susan Hendricks said protests go on in 30 cities. Then they show videos of looting, rioting, burning, when are these networks going to start calling it was it really is? It certainly isn't a protest. Then they always add their commentary, these protests are in retaliation for police brutality that has been going on for years. Really, for years and you know this how?

Susan Hendricks, mindless people on TV.

https://gossipgist.com/uploads/24948/susan-he.png


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