[Topspinmo]

Funds raiser’s are like foundations. Somebody’s going to get rich or somebody going to stay rich. The millions raise to first fund the Pulse memorial should be confiscated and used what it was intended for, not make few rich.

[Bill14564]

Originally Posted by blueash

Big time bull being shoveled here. The complaint in the OP is very clear. Read it, the first sentence



and reply



then




then I point out nobody here complained about public funding of other memorials, you have the audacity to object. The OP and others mentioned an issue with whether it has or has not been built, but his observation very clearly is that public funding was provided.

The larger project has for now failed as the land owner did not sell the property to the city and instead wanted to go forward with their own plans but ultimately were unable to raise enough private funding to build the hoped for museum. It is complicated.

What is not complicated is that public funding was provided as seed money for the project the completion of which required much larger infusion of private money. That didn't happen.

As for honor vs memorialize. Point made that memorialize is more specific, but use of the word honor is entirely appropriate

You need to read past the first line to understand the post. Heck, I needed to read to the end of your post to be sure you were really accusing me of being homophobic.

Many are not sure that public funds should be used... for this, for Oklahoma City, or for WTC. But that was not the point of the posts. The point was that funds, both public and private, were used and salaries paid with no museum and no memorial.

[Sabella]

Originally Posted by dewilson58

Not sure if public funds should be spent on a monument or not.........sounds like $6mil went to One Pulse Foundation (OPF) & $2mil to purchase the Pulse site.

What I find interesting is the millions of dollars of compensation went to OPF officers over the years and now OPF decided not the build a monument.

& no one is screaming.

Their Form 990 is public information disclosing the compensation.

Let’s not forget the extremely large amount of money that went to the victims families. A lot of the victims and their families that received money were in this country illegally? Remember, when a tragedy would happen -the whole nation had sympathy for the victims and their family, and we took a proper amount of time, and we prayed, and we mourned , and then we moved on seems like when we have a major tragedy these days we have to relive it forever.

[GizmoWhiskers]

Originally Posted by Stu from NYC

Agreed

Agree as well.

2023 Word association: VIRTUE signaling using single words.

[shut the front door]

Originally Posted by golfing eagles

I'd say the same thing about all those tragedies. Remember the victims. Memorialize them. But the term "honor" should be reserved for those that did something proactive to help. Honor the firefighters that laid down their lives that day to help others and remember those that simply showed up for work that day. I realize it is a semantic difference, but also an important one. And I say this having lost 2 high school classmates that day, as well as having had my son in the air when all flights were grounded.

As far as public funds go, I stated I'm undecided. Either way I don't think it's a big issue. As far as Pulse goes, I didn't see anyone post that the clientele was gay, maybe I missed that, or maybe somebody jumps to conclusions.

Just like the media and certain segments of the population jumped to conclusions calling it a "hate crime" targeting gays. The shooter didn't even know it was a gay bar. Shortly before the incident, he googled "crowded bars near me".

[dewilson58]

Originally Posted by blueash

Big time bull being shoveled here. The complaint in the OP is very clear. Read it, the first sentence

and reply

then

then I point out nobody here complained about public funding of other memorials, you have the audacity to object. The OP and others mentioned an issue with whether it has or has not been built, but his observation very clearly is that public funding was provided.

Blue, you are 100% wrong.
"Very clear"...............selecting words, cut & paste.........you totally missed the point and no one is buying it.

Let me help you:
Millions collected, Millions went out in compensation to officers for part-time work, now they decide not to do the memorial.
People who contributed (directly or indirectly) should be screaming.

[Sandy and Ed]

Originally Posted by golfing eagles

I'm not sure public funds should be used either. But I have another pet peeve about how this monument is being described. While this mass shooting was a tragedy, I'm not sure that a monument should be erected to "honor" the victims. Honor the firefighters who rushed into the WTC on 9/11 and died. Honor the thousands that died on the beaches of Normandy defending our country. But "honor" people who happened to be in the wrong place at the wrong time? What "honorable" thing did they do? I think "remember" or "memorialize" are much better terms for these victims.

AMEN. Could not add anything to your statement!!!!

[Blueblaze]

Personally, I find all the groveling and whining disgusting. Every time I pick up the mail, the flag at the post office seems continuously at half-mast. Why has my country become such a nation sissies and whiners? Instead of creating monuments of teddy bears for the enjoyment of the lunatic killers -- monuments that nobody visits but everyone is forced to pay for -- I have a better idea.

Just once, I'd like to see my nation man-up and do something about all the lunatic killers we allow to run loose, beyond blaming every law abiding American who owns a gun safe.

We didn't seem to have this problem when I was a kid and we kept the lunatics in asylums and the killers in jail. How about we try that again?

[Wondering]

U gotta get a life!

[GATORBILL66]

I am glad I moved out of Orlando as I would not my money going to something like that.

[Bill14564]

Originally Posted by GATORBILL66

I am glad I moved out of Orlando as I would not my money going to something like that.

Interesting. Since the public money that went to something like that came from the tourism dollars collected from hotels, BECAUSE you moved out of Orlando you are more likely to have contributed to it.

[FredJacobs]

Originally Posted by golfing eagles

I'm not sure public funds should be used either. But I have another pet peeve about how this monument is being described. While this mass shooting was a tragedy, I'm not sure that a monument should be erected to "honor" the victims. Honor the firefighters who rushed into the WTC on 9/11 and died. Honor the thousands that died on the beaches of Normandy defending our country. But "honor" people who happened to be in the wrong place at the wrong time? What "honorable" thing did they do? I think "remember" or "memorialize" are much better terms for these victims.

I am 100% in agreement with you. I couldn't understand why the almost 3,000 victims were called "martyrs." Certainly those who ran in to the buildings could be called martyrs, but the people who worked there - I don't think so.

Two years later, my wife and I were walking along Omaha Beach in Normandy. All of a sudden, I was overcome with great emotion and started to weep. My wife asked what was going on. Through tears I exclaimed, "this is the place where American martyrs died."

We then proceeded to the American Cemetery where I placed a stone on as many crosses and stars as I could. My tradition is that placing a stone on a head or foot stone, let's the world know that someone visited this grave.

[OrangeBlossomBaby]

Originally Posted by Sabella

Let’s not forget the extremely large amount of money that went to the victims families. A lot of the victims and their families that received money were in this country illegally? Remember, when a tragedy would happen -the whole nation had sympathy for the victims and their family, and we took a proper amount of time, and we prayed, and we mourned , and then we moved on seems like when we have a major tragedy these days we have to relive it forever.

Well gee, if these "tragedies" didn't keep happening over and over again, maybe we wouldn't have to keep reliving them.

They're not tragedies. It wasn't an unfortunate accident. It was an atrocious, hideous, hateful, intentional act of violence. And it keeps happening. Everyone who was affected directly by one of these incidents, lives with the risk of a new incident triggering the emotional turmoil they experienced the first time around.

So maybe if we could come up with solutions for a) stopping these incidents OR b) reducing the risk of them happening, then maybe there'd be fewer of them, and no one would have to relive anything at all.

We'll keep bringing it up, until we stop it from happening again.

[OrangeBlossomBaby]

Originally Posted by Blueblaze

Personally, I find all the groveling and whining disgusting. Every time I pick up the mail, the flag at the post office seems continuously at half-mast. Why has my country become such a nation sissies and whiners? Instead of creating monuments of teddy bears for the enjoyment of the lunatic killers -- monuments that nobody visits but everyone is forced to pay for -- I have a better idea.

Just once, I'd like to see my nation man-up and do something about all the lunatic killers we allow to run loose, beyond blaming every law abiding American who owns a gun safe.

We didn't seem to have this problem when I was a kid and we kept the lunatics in asylums and the killers in jail. How about we try that again?

I don't know about the rest of the country but -this- state, Florida, appears to have low standards regarding bail. Aggravated assault? $500 bond and you're out free to terrorize your wife again. Grand theft? Just have your bail bondsman put up $100 of the $1000 bond and you can scope out the new golf cart at Nancy's house with the key in the ignition because she's forgetful. Robbed a gas station? Cool. Don't forget to put gas in the car there after you pay your $250 to get released from lockup.

The criminals around here tend to be repeat offenders. And our system continues to let them roam free, to add more crimes to their long list.

[Bill14564]

Originally Posted by OrangeBlossomBaby

I don't know about the rest of the country but -this- state, Florida, appears to have low standards regarding bail. Aggravated assault? $500 bond and you're out free to terrorize your wife again. Grand theft? Just have your bail bondsman put up $100 of the $1000 bond and you can scope out the new golf cart at Nancy's house with the key in the ignition because she's forgetful. Robbed a gas station? Cool. Don't forget to put gas in the car there after you pay your $250 to get released from lockup.

The criminals around here tend to be repeat offenders. And our system continues to let them roam free, to add more crimes to their long list.

Bail is not meant to keep an accused individual in jail and in fact, that is prohibited by the eighth amendment.

If there is an amount of cash that will ensure the accused comes back to his trial, set that amount as bail.

If there are conditions that will ensure the accused does not commit more crimes while awaiting trial, set those conditions as bail.

If there is good reason to believe the accused will flee or will commit more crimes then deny bail and keep him in jail.

The concept of bail should be used as intended, not as a shortcut to keeping the accused in jail.