[Pballer]

The rest of the country should be more like Florida - crappy wages, crappy benefits, crappy pensions.

[dewilson58]

Originally Posted by Pballer

The rest of the country should be more like Florida - crappy wages, crappy benefits, crappy pensions.

& Ur point??

[Boomer]

Originally Posted by retiredguy123

It's pretty simple. Unions are created to help the union members. If automation hurts the union members, they are going to be opposed to it. If school choice hurts public school union teachers, the union will be opposed to it even if it hurts students. The union exists to represent the union members. Period.

Hey! You and I go back a long way — even if we have never met and have no idea who each other is.

Usually, I respect your opinions, but this time I must say when it comes to teachers’ unions, you have no idea what you are talking about. (I also know you will not report me to the admin as being a mean girl trying to scar your psyche. We’ll be OK.)

I must assume you have no problem with private money taking your tax money to promote their private agenda and run schools as a money-maker.

My guess is also that you do not know anything about how tenure works. All tenure protects is the right to due process.

AND I can tell you right now, and in no uncertain terms, that nobody wants to see bad teachers gone more than good teachers want bad teachers out.

IF (some) school administrators would get off their butts, get out of their offices, go into classrooms, and evaluate teachers on a regular basis, tenure would not be an issue if firing would be needed. Get that paper trail going and GET RID of the bad ones before they get to tenured status.

But nope. Lazy-azz principals love to holler, “TENURE!” and claim their hands are tied. NOT SO! It’s just that pesky due process they have to be ready for if they let a bad one go on and on and on. Tenured teachers can be fired, but principals have to do a little work if they have allowed tenured status to be reached. Due process. That is what tenure protects. But teachers cannot fire other teachers. Administrators need to do their jobs from the beginning.

Maybe I will return later and patiently explain how being an excellent teacher but having reached the top of the salary scale could bite one in the azz if it were not for tenured status. I bet you can figure that one out, anyway.

Well, enough from me. I am scheduled to go hang out with people I can actually see. Retired teachers will be among them.

Boomer

[graciegirl]

Originally Posted by Boomer

Hey! You and I go back a long way — even if we have never met and have no idea who each other is.

Usually, I respect your opinions, but this time I must say when it comes to teachers’ unions, you have no idea what you are talking about. (I also know you will not report me to the admin as being a mean girl trying to scar your psyche. We’ll be OK.)

I must assume you have no problem with private money taking your tax money to promote their private agenda and run schools as a money-maker.

My guess is also that you do not know anything about how tenure works. All tenure protects is the right to due process.

AND I can tell you right now, and in no uncertain terms, that nobody wants to see bad teachers gone more than good teachers want bad teachers out.

IF (some) school administrators would get off their butts, get out of their offices, go into classrooms, and evaluate teachers on a regular basis, tenure would not be an issue if firing would be needed. Get that paper trail going and GET RID of the bad ones before they get to tenured status.

But nope. Lazy-azz principals love to holler, “TENURE!” and claim their hands are tied. NOT SO! It’s just that pesky due process they have to be ready for if they let a bad one go on and on and on. Tenured teachers can be fired, but principals have to do a little work if they have allowed tenured status to be reached. Due process. That is what tenure protects. But teachers cannot fire other teachers. Administrators need to do their jobs from the beginning.

Maybe I will return later and patiently explain how being an excellent teacher but having reached the top of the salary scale could bite one in the azz if it were not for tenured status. I bet you can figure that one out, anyway.

Well, enough from me. I am scheduled to go hang out with people I can actually see. Retired teachers will be among them.

Boomer

I have known both of you for some time.

He is making more sense here. Much more sense......

[GoRedSox!]

I don't have any issue with corporations making a profit, since I am a capitalist, and have invested in them and those investments enabled me to retire early. However, I am under no illusions of grandeur when it comes to how they treat their employees.

The poster who said that corporations want good employees and are willing to pay them is mostly correct, up until a point. Check out the number of folks who make it to 65 with their companies. You might be shocked. There used to be a social contract in this country that an employee would stay with a company for life, and you would be good to them and they would be good to you. In my opinion, this was contract was broken by corporations in the 80's. This is when layoffs and off-shoring began.

As you approach your late 50's in corporate America, watch out. Two things happen at around this time....you are at or near the top of the salary scale, and you cost your company the most for health insurance. Once again, the numbers of folks who make it to 65 are on record....many years of working for a company could mean nothing when it comes to replacing someone at 1/2 of their salary and 1/4 of their insurance cost. Employees rarely see this coming, yet it happens to many of this age group.

That's the kind of thing that unions do prevent. There is no question that our middle class was stronger when unions were stronger.

As for the longshoremen increasing costs for everyone, this is not necessarily so. Maybe instead of a 350% increase in profits over 10 years, the ports will be happy to share some of those profits with their employees in the form of higher wages and they will be content to make 300% increase in profits over the next 10 years and have happy employees as well.

[Pballer]

Originally Posted by dewilson58

& Ur point??

My point is that when you have a state that is rabidly anti-union, you get the employee paradises that are Florida., or Alabama, or Mississippi, or Louisiana. /s

[Boomer]

Hey, Wilson, your pot-stirring is a success. Responses are numerous and transparent and predictable and entertaining — for a while.

Out now. Bye.

Boomer

[CFrance]

Originally Posted by GoRedSox!

I don't have any issue with corporations making a profit, since I am a capitalist, and have invested in them and those investments enabled me to retire early. However, I am under no illusions of grandeur when it comes to how they treat their employees.

The poster who said that corporations want good employees and are willing to pay them is mostly correct, up until a point. Check out the number of folks who make it to 65 with their companies. You might be shocked. There used to be a social contract in this country that an employee would stay with a company for life, and you would be good to them and they would be good to you. In my opinion, this was contract was broken by corporations in the 80's. This is when layoffs and off-shoring began.

As you approach your late 50's in corporate America, watch out. Two things happen at around this time....you are at or near the top of the salary scale, and you cost your company the most for health insurance. Once again, the numbers of folks who make it to 65 are on record....many years of working for a company could mean nothing when it comes to replacing someone at 1/2 of their salary and 1/4 of their insurance cost. Employees rarely see this coming, yet it happens to many of this age group.

That's the kind of thing that unions do prevent. There is no question that our middle class was stronger when unions were stronger.

As for the longshoremen increasing costs for everyone, this is not necessarily so. Maybe instead of a 350% increase in profits over 10 years, the ports will be happy to share some of those profits with their employees in the form of higher wages and they will be content to make 300% increase in profits over the next 10 years and have happy employees as well.

And I don't claim "to have known you (or anybody else) for a long time," but this is very well said and makes much sense.
I suppose many don't choose to remember robber barons (wealthy, powerful, and unethical American industrialists and financiers in the 19th century") as the reason unions came into being in the first place. Robber baron | Definition, Significance, & Captains of Industry | Britannica Money

I was never in a union; I'm just appalled at what's been happening to the middle class.

[Boomer]

Originally Posted by CFrance

And I don't claim "to have known you (or anybody else) for a long time," but this is very well said and makes much sense.
I suppose many don't choose to remember robber barons (wealthy, powerful, and unethical American industrialists and financiers in the 19th century") as the reason unions came into being in the first place. Robber baron | Definition, Significance, & Captains of Industry | Britannica Money

I was never in a union; I'm just appalled at what's been happening to the middle class.

Nobody here actually knows me either, except through my words.

Just want to say I agree with you. History does repeat itself.

Boomer

[dewilson58]

Originally Posted by Boomer

Hey, Wilson, your pot-stirring is a success. Responses are numerous and transparent and predictable and entertaining — for a while.

Out now. Bye.

Boomer

Not pot-stirring.................just don't think there is value to unions.

Union supporters talk out-of-date fearmongering information.

An union supporting posters aren't saying anything new and are marching right in line.

It's not even close...................90% of employees are non-union.

[dewilson58]

Originally Posted by Pballer

My point is that when you have a state that is rabidly anti-union, you get the employee paradises that are Florida., or Alabama, or Mississippi, or Louisiana. /s

Not seeing the direct relationship.

Facts:
Here are the states with the highest union membership rates in 2023:
Hawaii: 24.1%
New York: 20.6%
Washington: 16.5%
New Jersey: 16.1%
Connecticut: 15.9%
California: 15.4%
Alaska: 14.8%
Vermont: 14.3%
Oregon: 14.1%
Minnesota: 13.3%

In contrast, the states with the lowest union membership rates in 2023 were:
South Carolina: 2.3%
North Carolina: 2.7%
South Dakota: 3.6%
Arizona: 4.8%
Louisiana: 5.2%

[Caymus]

Originally Posted by GoRedSox!

The world is not passing us by. That's just plain false. We are by far the most affluent country in the world. We have the best economy in the world, by far.

Unions will always be a target by those who prefer that profits go to corporations, their CEO's and senior management and shareholders, rather than working people. The middle class was strongest in this country when unions were strongest. This is indisputable economic facts.

These workers just got a 61.5% raise over the next 6 years. I think the union just did a great job. This one the heels of the UAW getting 40% increase over 4 years and Shawn Fain doing a great job. The folks who run these ports have seen their profits soar 350% over the last 10 years. I am glad the working man and woman is getting a fair share of that in this latest negotiation.

As UAW produced vehicles become more and more unaffordable. They will need that 100% tariff on Chinese EV's to survive.

[BigDawgInLakeDenham]

Values that you have established and no one will change your minds. Those who are union members are easily identified and those who worked for a corporation that actually paid and provided benefits and no fear of lay-offs can be identified. I grew up in Baltimore near Sparrows Point Bethlehem Steel Mill and the Dundalk Marine Terminal. Everyone around me worked there.Think Francis Scott Key Bridge getting knocked down. Was there and could hear the collapse from my house. Everything was good until blue gave away American know how. Unions quickly became unnecessary and only a minority cling to unions because they don't want to or can't get a job with an actual company. Drug testing comes into play for many in my "neighborhood" nowadays. Speaking of my "neighborhood" I can say without hesitation that the Longshoremen are terribly overpaid and work second jobs or ride one of their motorcycles while they are on the clock. Unions provide their workers with too much protection that they routinely abuse their system and brag about it. No longer the people I grew up with, but all diversity and equity hires. Of course they demand more money to not work because that is exactly what Unions represent. Many collect welfare while getting paid 6 figures. I know this for a fact. Unions are selfish and not for America. Unions are the modern Mafia. You know where I stand

[GoRedSox!]

Yet there is a strong correlation between states with the lowest union membership, and highest number of people on some kind of government program, the lowest salaries, the lowest life expectancies, the worst health coverage, the highest rates of uninsured, and the highest poverty rates.

This is indisputable. The numbers don't lie.

[BigDawgInLakeDenham]

Originally Posted by Pballer

The rest of the country should be more like Florida - crappy wages, crappy benefits, crappy pensions.

You just described the entire nation. Outside the bubble is a dying economy and nation. I still have to go out there and it's very scary