[GoRedSox!]

Originally Posted by BigDawgInLakeDenham

So you believe it's solely union membership related and not the demographic makeup of the population? Would you expect these populations to be conditioned to actually work for a living after Johnson's Great Society Program??? I'll answer for you..absolutely not. They get paid to stay home and the more babies they make, the more they get paid to stay home. This leads to multiple fathers that don't raise the child which leads to misdirection and a life of crime and a vicious cycle...need I go on?

I don't believe that it is solely due to union membership, but that's a contributing factor. Folks have criticized FL, and while I don't think this is the greatest state to work and salaries are low, at least there is an increased minimum wage here. Some of these states won't even raise the minimum wage above $7.25 an hour.

As an FYI, I was in a union once....when I was in college and working part-time on the janitorial crew. My entire actual full-time working career, I was never in a union.

As far as my thoughts on many corporations laying people off in their late 50's before they reach retirement age, I was part of management and I know for sure that it is true. It's also backed up by statistics, you can actually see this statistic, it's not a figment of my imagination. There is a reason that 70% of Social Security recipients start collecting at age 62.

[dewilson58]

Originally Posted by GoRedSox!

As far as my thoughts on many corporations laying people off in their late 50's before they reach retirement age, I was part of management and I know for sure that it is true. It's also backed up by statistics, you can actually see this statistic, it's not a figment of my imagination.

There is a reason that 70% of Social Security recipients start collecting at age 62.

Share the factual statistic on both of your claims.

[GoRedSox!]

I really try to post as objectively as I can, using real data and I try to leave my biases out of it. It's not really possible to do that 100%, but I try.

For context, I was on the right side of things. It was fortunate for me. I received stock options as part of my compensation. I received a yearly bonus and a raise. I didn't need a union....but the truth be told, the folks who did the majority of the work could certainly have used one.

The statistics are there. The average American worker has gotten killed in this country over the past 40 years, with meager gains in real wages. Corporate profits have been astonishingly high, as the investor class will tell you. 50 years ago, many employees had a defined pension plan that would augment Social Security with guaranteed income. Now, almost no workers get such a plan and are left to make their own investment choices and manage a 401(k). CEO and top management pay has gone way, way up, not so much the average American worker. Wealth disparity is at a 100% year high. Health insurance benefits seem to shift cost share to employees every passing year. Millions of good American jobs have been offshored overseas to cheaper labor who don't get many, if any, benefits.

The above is all true. The Villages is a relatively affluent retirement community, so I expect that the majority of folks who read this have fared better than the average American. But there are many, many retirees trying to live on Social Security and not much else, or having to work part-time jobs well into their 70's.

I'm not exactly sure what the answer is to all this....I am not an expert....maybe it's not unions, maybe it is....but the current status quo is not working great for the working man and woman in this country.

[Johnsocat]

What has happened to us as a Nation?
Remember? "It's not what your country can do for you; it's what you can do for your country."

[dewilson58]

Originally Posted by GoRedSox!

There is a reason that 70% of Social Security recipients start collecting at age 62.

Here are facts vs. your fake news:

In the U.S., you can retire as early as 62 and start claiming your Social Security. And as of 2021, according to the Congressional Research Service, about 30% of Social Security applicants were 62.

[biker1]

…and the percentage of people starting Social Security at age 62 has been declining (people waiting till a later age for a higher benefit). Here is some additional data of the percentage of people starting social security at various ages for 2022 and the average benefit. Big spikes at earliest age (62), typical full retirement age (66), and age 70 (highest benefit). I don’t fully understand taking the benefit after age 70 since the benefit doesn’t increase after age 70 (leaving money on the table).

Age Number (percentage of total) Average benefit
62 807,587 (27.3%) $1,287.61
63 222,908 (7.5%) $1,510.29
64 238,163 (8.0%) $1,625.03
65 388,996 (13.1%) $1,874.56
66 1,182,692 (24.7%) $2,039.86
67 122,918 (4.1%) $2,399.86
68 74,743 (2.5%) $2,594.74
69 66,638 (2.2%) $2,806.90
70-74 302,327 (10.2%) $3,065.48
75+ 6,317 (0.2%) $1,185.00

Originally Posted by dewilson58

Here are facts vs. your fake news:

In the U.S., you can retire as early as 62 and start claiming your Social Security. And as of 2021, according to the Congressional Research Service, about 30% of Social Security applicants were 62.

[BBBnWitty]

Well said.

[Pugchief]

Originally Posted by justjim

The middle class was doing quite well in 1990 thanks to the Unions. $20.00 a hour wages in 1990 was a living wage for most middle class workers. According to Google, $55.00 per hour today is its equal. With the demise of Unions, the middle class has considerably diminished.

40% of Americans today can’t come up with $400.00 in cash in case of emergencies. Those staying just a bit ahead of the curve are working two jobs. The fortunate Americans, like most of us, complain about minimum wage of $15.00 a hour driving up our cost when we dine out. There are more Billionaires than ever before in the history of our country. Is there something wrong with this picture? Is there an answer? Is there value in a Union?

The middle class is vanishing for sure. What makes you think it has anything to do with unions? It probably has a lot more to do with the elites.

[Wondering]

Originally Posted by dewilson58

The latest strike is a great example of the lack of value.

Yes they wanted wages but they want job security thru the lack of automation.
That's nuts.
Of all these striking ports, "represented" by the union........none of them are in the Top 50 efficient ports in the world.
What's that light in the tunnel??

Pretty sad the USA labor is not a leader, it's not even close.
The cost of labor protectionism.

The vast majority of people don't want or need union representation.

Don't understand people in unions.

Wrong again, as usual. Shipping companies have made billions recently. Unions made this country and always will. There are more to contracts than wages, medical benefits, overtime rates, work week/year/day. How about safety regs within the company? Keep trying but start stating background facts to support your weak theories.

[jimbomaybe]

Originally Posted by Johnsocat

We appear to have dodged the bullet for the time being. So, what are we going to learn from it?
Instead of focusing on whether unions are good or bad, how about paying attention to the fact that our Nation's daily way of life and our entire economy rely on IMPORTS.
We can no longer survive as a strong, independent Nation on our own. We can no longer produce the things that are vital to keep us functioning.
So, what are we going to do about it?
Maybe this particular union's actions have a provided a greater value than most believe.

"our Nation's daily way of life and our entire economy rely on IMPORTS." Few could afford their current lifestyle if they had to pay for the American worker to produce it, The dock workers have a monopoly on a bottle neck/ potential strangle hold on goods coming into the country, any move make their job more efficient will be fought over to maintain their power

[waterflower]

People who are not in the working environment today, probably should not be commenting on the issues of todays HUMAN RESOURCE. Not the same game as the 60's-70's-80's.

[dewilson58]

Originally Posted by Wondering

Wrong again, as usual. Shipping companies have made billions recently. Unions made this country and always will. There are more to contracts than wages, medical benefits, overtime rates, work week/year/day. How about safety regs within the company? Keep trying but start stating background facts to support your weak theories.

Keep Wondering............that's why you are wrong.



Yep, companies make millions and billions...................thank God.
Without profits, no wages, no employees, no companies.

Unions may have had an impact over 50 years ago, but with the current minimal percentage and decreasing numbers.......not much impact on the USA today.

Unions may have suggested some safety items for a very limited amount of employees.

Most Americans are NOT union and don't want to be union.

I enjoy "other views", but get out of the past...........old news.

These docks and dock workers are not even in the Top 50 in the world of major ports..........they are fighting automation and advancements to protect jobs.

Not a road to success.

[Cuervo]

Let's put automation and wages aside, there is another service unions enforce.
You see there are a lot of good employers and there are also a lot of bad ones.
Union will put whatever protection they can for their member into the contracts.
That not always fool proof many employers will spend time and money to find workarounds to achieve their financial goal without any care about the workers.
These same companies are the ones if a worker drops dead on the floor, they will replace them before their body gets cold.
I know there are many that don't believe that to be true, but you can't believe what went into some of our contracts just to make sure they would survive the job.

[GoRedSox!]

I misspoke about 70% of people taking Social Security at 62. I was trying to say that 70% take it before full retirement age. And I was not looking at the most current data, which someone posted above.

As for how many people are retired and at what age, according to the Motley Fool:

The average retirement age for Americans is 61.
The average retirement age has increased by a few years since the early 1990s, when the average American retired at 57.

This article with is current as of April 2024 provides much more info on retirement age and why people left the workforce, including involuntary reasons. According to CBS, 70% of Americans are retiring before age 65. Planning on retiring at 65? Most Americans retire far earlier — and not by choice. - CBS News

[juddfl]

I am also IBEW. I worked for Verizon for 31 years, not as long as you. Our union was very good. These port workers do not want automation. Our ports are a lot less proficient than many countries. If we did what these workers are doing, you would not be walking around with a phone not attached to a cord. We worked the problems out by having buy outs for retirement. Then they offered early retirement. We did it and they can also. They need to be modernized to keep up with the world.