[Bill14564]

Originally Posted by Jacob85

Young people are now getting the Delta Varient and are now dying.

Any evidence to back this statement up? Both the JHU and WaPo Covid trackers seem to show that a whole lot of people are getting positive test results and a lot of people are being hospitalized but very few additional people are dying.

Originally Posted by Jacob85

...
Finally people who are vaccinated can carry enough of this mutation now to give it to others.

A statement currently without any evidence to back it up. Might be true but as others have pointed out, might be a negligible number.

[blueash]

Originally Posted by Guitarman1951

All good discussions here. I found the chart of vaccinated people interesting in that the majority of unvaccinated are in the black population. I don't want to turn this into a political discussion at all, but what are the odds that most are democratic voters? I just find it disgusting when the the Trump haters want to blame republicans for all of the unvaccinated problem. I am republican and have many republican friends and relatives and not one of them is unvaccinated or don't fully support and believe in the need for maximum vaccinations.
Just very glad to see more rational analysis and discussion other than the irrational, unfounded hate fest that you usually see on this topic.

Scientific literacy it useful if you are going to cite something.. Please look again at the chart which led you to conclude that "the majority of unvaccinated are in the black population"

The chart the OP posted reports that 36% of Black folks have received at least one dose, thus 64% have not. As they represent 12% of the US population, per the same KFF report, that means that unvaccinated Blacks are 7.6% of the US population. 41% of whites have not received any shots. Whites are 61% of the US population.

Do the math. Unvaccinated whites are 25% of the US population. Now tell me again how "the majority of the unvaccinated are in the black population." The title of this thread is Who are the Naughty antivaxxer refusenicks?

Using the KFF data and a population of 333 million in the US there are about 83 million unvaccinated whites and 25 million unvaccinated Blacks. Keep in mind that the KFF data is NOT age adjusted. They simply looked at total numbers. As it is well known that the average age of both Black and Hispanic Americans is lower than whites because of life expectancy and birth rates, it is worth adding that far fewer people of color have qualified to be vaccinated.

The median age for whites per Pew analysis of census data in 2018 was 44. The median is the age where half the people are older and half younger. The median for Blacks is 34 and Hispanics is 30. Far more whites have been eligible for vaccination for longer periods as the age criteria have liberalized.

Again, I will point out that the best predictor of being a naughty refusenik is not ethnicity.

[Joezfla]

That's why we are sticking to restaurants and bars where we are safe!!!!

[ROCKMUP]

Some of us choose to not be a lab rat for the largest social experiment ever done.

I mean, its not like our own government would ever perform any experiments on its own citizens. Would it ?
I can think of at least 6 times since the mid 1800's.

Funny (not ha, ha) how judgmental and arrogant people are. I don't care if you wear a mask and I don't care if you get vaccinated. You do you.

[coffeebean]

Originally Posted by MrZero

Not sure it's about "conspiracy theories." When the CDC director lies about facts (covid mortality rate in children vs. influenza) which are easily disputed using CDC's own data, critical thinking people question motives. The problem is we have stopped being critical thinkers and are allowing talking-heads and politicians to segregate us into warring camps. WAKE UP!

Gee, I must have missed those lies about mortality rate in children (Covid vs Flu). Do you have a link?

[Buckeye Bob]

I don't see any mention of Ivermectin or Hydroxychloroquine. Why are the CDC, WHO, Bill Gates, etc. so against it when it's so very effective. Because it's cheap. Follow the money sheeple.

[brick010207]

Yes. Ignorance. Once you educate the ignorant they are no longer ignorant. But STUPID is unfixable You can bribe them with many t lhings but like the lemming, when the leader goes over the cliff so do the followers.

[DennisDee]

Originally Posted by lkagele

Yup. It's part of the great reset. History is going to look back at this period as the greatest over-reaction of all time.

CDC is currently lying about the risk to school age children which in reality is practically nil. Wearing masks is probably more harmful to kids than the risks they face from COVID. But, when you get kids used to being controlled, it's easier to control them when they become adults.

Great point! It is important that we recognize the psychological, social, ideology and economic risk to our children and grandchildren caused by policies that ignore their present and future well being. They will be our leaders and policy makers.

Your statement "when you get kids used to being controlled, it's easier to control them when they become adults", sadly is very true.

[ThirdOfFive]

Originally Posted by GrumpyOldMan

Being educated does not provide immunity to misinformation about subjects you are not educated in.

Hmmmm.

So on the one hand we have people in a major University environment, supposedly intelligent people with as much access to information as anyone, choosing not to get vaccinated.

On the other hand we have people here, supposedly intelligent people with as much access to information as anyone, maintaining that getting vaccinated should as much as be made mandatory.

So--can we deduce from that, that the ONLY real difference in this debate is which data we choose to believe? If so, this is really nothing more than a ping-pong match.

Originally Posted by S=kBlogW

Lots of accusations flying around about this, apparently not based on actual facts.

Lets look at the data by race, from KFF (Kaiser)

Attachment 90238

Latest Data on COVID-19 Vaccinations by Race/Ethnicity | KFF

So looks like Blacks and hispanics are lagging behind asians and whites. Is this because they are poor and lack access or maybe they watch a certain news network?


Here is a vaccine locator at vaccines.gov. There are 50 locations where I can get a free covid shot within 15 miles of my home in rural Ocala. Put any zip code into the the locator and I doubt you'll find many places where there is not free vaccine available with 30 minutes of your home.

Vaccines.gov - Search for COVID-19 vaccine locations

There are some people who just plain refuse to get the jab? First of all, you have a very large group of people who have already had covid. Over 34 million cases in the USA so far, plus probably millions more who were asymptomatic and never tested. That's a very large group of people who already have immunity, and some recent studies show that natural immunity resulted in 33% lower infections.

Effectiveness of the BNT162b2 vaccine in preventing COVID-19 in the working age population – first results from a cohort study in Southern Sweden | medRxiv

People under 40 with no serious health problems represent a very small percentage of total covid deaths and are more likely to die from pneumonia or the flu.

Provisional COVID-19 Deaths by Sex and Age | Data | Centers for Disease Control and Prevention

Recently the heads of CDC, NIH, and FDA were asked what percentage of their employees were vaccinated and the answer was about 60% There are reports that 20-40% of hospital workers are not vaccinated. These people are probably more educated on disease and vaccinations than your average American.

People in The Villages who are mostly over 65, are obese/diabetic/heart problems etc are rightfully scared of this disease and get the jab as soon as possible. But you might want to step out of the bubble and consider things from another perspective.

If you are one of the millions who have already had covid, or are young and healthy, you might decline the vaccine, and have valid reasons for that decision. Recent reports are showing that the vaccines are not as effective against Delta variant and can have virus loads as high as the unvaccinated, so the antivaxxers might turn the table sand say "hey vaxxer, stay away from me and put on the mask"

Disclosure: I am over 70 with some health problems so I got both shots back in January. But that doesn't mean I have the right to tell young people or covid survivors that they MUST get the vaccine. The whole "antivaxxers are breeding ground for mutations and will kill us all" is kind of laughable. The percentage of people on this planet who have been vaccinated is very small, so mutations will continue even if every American gets the shots. We can't wall off the country from the world.

Hopefully the scientists can adjust and adapt the vaccines, but it looks like this virus is going to be around for awhile. Thanks China!

Are you also aware of this? Fraudulent PCR Tests EXPOSED! CDC Quietly Withdraws Emergency Use Authorization Due to Inability to Differentiate COVID-19 & Influenza. Guess we know now why for 2 years the flu completely disappeared. Too many people are being indoctrinated by the news media, do your research.

[drstevens]

Originally Posted by S=kBlogW

Lots of accusations flying around about this, apparently not based on actual facts.

Lets look at the data by race, from KFF (Kaiser)

Attachment 90238

Latest Data on COVID-19 Vaccinations by Race/Ethnicity | KFF

So looks like Blacks and hispanics are lagging behind asians and whites. Is this because they are poor and lack access or maybe they watch a certain news network?


Here is a vaccine locator at vaccines.gov. There are 50 locations where I can get a free covid shot within 15 miles of my home in rural Ocala. Put any zip code into the the locator and I doubt you'll find many places where there is not free vaccine available with 30 minutes of your home.

Vaccines.gov - Search for COVID-19 vaccine locations

There are some people who just plain refuse to get the jab? First of all, you have a very large group of people who have already had covid. Over 34 million cases in the USA so far, plus probably millions more who were asymptomatic and never tested. That's a very large group of people who already have immunity, and some recent studies show that natural immunity resulted in 33% lower infections.

Effectiveness of the BNT162b2 vaccine in preventing COVID-19 in the working age population – first results from a cohort study in Southern Sweden | medRxiv

People under 40 with no serious health problems represent a very small percentage of total covid deaths and are more likely to die from pneumonia or the flu.

Provisional COVID-19 Deaths by Sex and Age | Data | Centers for Disease Control and Prevention

Recently the heads of CDC, NIH, and FDA were asked what percentage of their employees were vaccinated and the answer was about 60% There are reports that 20-40% of hospital workers are not vaccinated. These people are probably more educated on disease and vaccinations than your average American.

People in The Villages who are mostly over 65, are obese/diabetic/heart problems etc are rightfully scared of this disease and get the jab as soon as possible. But you might want to step out of the bubble and consider things from another perspective.

If you are one of the millions who have already had covid, or are young and healthy, you might decline the vaccine, and have valid reasons for that decision. Recent reports are showing that the vaccines are not as effective against Delta variant and can have virus loads as high as the unvaccinated, so the antivaxxers might turn the table sand say "hey vaxxer, stay away from me and put on the mask"

Disclosure: I am over 70 with some health problems so I got both shots back in January. But that doesn't mean I have the right to tell young people or covid survivors that they MUST get the vaccine. The whole "antivaxxers are breeding ground for mutations and will kill us all" is kind of laughable. The percentage of people on this planet who have been vaccinated is very small, so mutations will continue even if every American gets the shots. We can't wall off the country from the world.

Hopefully the scientists can adjust and adapt the vaccines, but it looks like this virus is going to be around for awhile. Thanks China!

As a scientist, I extensively studied the pros and cons of receiving the "experimental" vaccine. I discovered the pharmaceuticals have received immunity from liability, conflicting animal trials where many animals died after several months, the side-effects were more prevalent than all previous vaccines, and the media and medical profession essentially ignoring the benefits of natural immunity. Also, the blatant obfuscation of any treatment other than the vaccines i.e. benefits of hydroxychloroquine and ivermectin.
OUR STORY (condensed): My wife and I were exposed to covid19 on January 26 and both tested positive. I had a runny nose and a two-hour fever of 100.4. I feel fine and still have the antibodies after six months.
My wife had a cough for two-days and was lethargic. She still tested positive for covid19 after five months. Last month she took the five day treatment of hydroxychloroquine with zinc and now no longer tests positive for covid19 and has her energy back.
OUR RESEARCH (condensed): Tons of research is available pro-vaccine, not so much for anti-vaccine, with many sites blocked. Several sources we found were Media – Americas Frontline Doctors, www.thecovidblog.com, and the confusing government adverse effects reporting website https://wonder.cdc.gov/vaers.html. I have lost the source, but about 40% of employees at three government health agencies (including Fauchi's) have supposedly refused to get the vaccine.
CONCLUSION: We will never take any vaccine or drug that is experimental, especially where the mfg. is immune from liability AND THE LONG TERM SIDE-EFFECTS ARE UNKNOWN. Also, we both have the antibodies and test negative for covid19. My doctor has told me not to consider the vaccine as long as I have the antibodies and am on chemo for multiple myeloma. I do not wish to get in to a long diatribe about the vaccine, but do your own research, be informed and educated and make the best decision for you and your family. Ignore those who try to build themselves up by tearing others down who do not agree with them.
I hope you found this helpful. Good luck and stay heathy!

[graciegirl]

Originally Posted by blueash

Scientific literacy it useful if you are going to cite something.. Please look again at the chart which led you to conclude that "the majority of unvaccinated are in the black population"

The chart the OP posted reports that 36% of Black folks have received at least one dose, thus 64% have not. As they represent 12% of the US population, per the same KFF report, that means that unvaccinated Blacks are 7.6% of the US population. 41% of whites have not received any shots. Whites are 61% of the US population.

Do the math. Unvaccinated whites are 25% of the US population. Now tell me again how "the majority of the unvaccinated are in the black population." The title of this thread is Who are the Naughty antivaxxer refusenicks?

Using the KFF data and a population of 333 million in the US there are about 83 million unvaccinated whites and 25 million unvaccinated Blacks. Keep in mind that the KFF data is NOT age adjusted. They simply looked at total numbers. As it is well known that the average age of both Black and Hispanic Americans is lower than whites because of life expectancy and birth rates, it is worth adding that far fewer people of color have qualified to be vaccinated.

The median age for whites per Pew analysis of census data in 2018 was 44. The median is the age where half the people are older and half younger. The median for Blacks is 34 and Hispanics is 30. Far more whites have been eligible for vaccination for longer periods as the age criteria have liberalized.

Again, I will point out that the best predictor of being a naughty refusenik is not ethnicity.

I thought it meant percentage of different races. Not total people.

Obviously in this country we have more white people at this time.

[golfing eagles]

Originally Posted by drstevens

As a scientist, I extensively studied the pros and cons of receiving the "experimental" vaccine. I discovered the pharmaceuticals have received immunity from liability, conflicting animal trials where many animals died after several months, the side-effects were more prevalent than all previous vaccines, and the media and medical profession essentially ignoring the benefits of natural immunity. Also, the blatant obfuscation of any treatment other than the vaccines i.e. benefits of hydroxychloroquine and ivermectin.
OUR STORY (condensed): My wife and I were exposed to covid19 on January 26 and both tested positive. I had a runny nose and a two-hour fever of 100.4. I feel fine and still have the antibodies after six months.
My wife had a cough for two-days and was lethargic. She still tested positive for covid19 after five months. Last month she took the five day treatment of hydroxychloroquine with zinc and now no longer tests positive for covid19 and has her energy back.
OUR RESEARCH (condensed): Tons of research is available pro-vaccine, not so much for anti-vaccine, with many sites blocked. Several sources we found were Media – Americas Frontline Doctors, The COVID Blog - Official blog of COVID Legal USA. Vaccines are the leading cause of coincidences. Stay Vigilant., and the confusing government adverse effects reporting website The Vaccine Adverse Event Reporting System (VAERS) Request. I have lost the source, but about 40% of employees at three government health agencies (including Fauchi's) have supposedly refused to get the vaccine.
CONCLUSION: We will never take any vaccine or drug that is experimental, especially where the mfg. is immune from liability AND THE LONG TERM SIDE-EFFECTS ARE UNKNOWN. Also, we both have the antibodies and test negative for covid19. My doctor has told me not to consider the vaccine as long as I have the antibodies and am on chemo for multiple myeloma. I do not wish to get in to a long diatribe about the vaccine, but do your own research, be informed and educated and make the best decision for you and your family. Ignore those who try to build themselves up by tearing others down who do not agree with them.
I hope you found this helpful. Good luck and stay heathy!

First of all, very sorry to hear you have MM, but that is really the reason to avoid the vaccine in your case, especially actively receiving chemo. The "antibodies" you have are really not the sine qua non of COVID immunity. It turns out there are multiple antibodies involved, and we simply don't have a good test to determine which ones confer immunity (yet).

There should be no problem finding "anti-vaccine" web sites---just google conspiracy theories, so despite your user name, I have to question whether you are a medical doctor or just happen to have 1st and middle initials of "d" and "r"

Lastly, I am always skeptical of any post that advises people to "do their own research" Most people don't have the background in science or medicine to understand the literature nor make a reasonable conclusion. That's why we have EXPERTS to evaluate the data and advise the decision makers and inform the public. We can't have millions of "Dr. Googles" out there making their own decisions based on their "own research"

And as far as some of the treatments you mentioned, they are basically unproven. And even if they have some utility, they are after the fact treatments for active COVID. Much better to prevent it in the first place. It's pretty amazing that anti-vaxxers like to state the vaccine isn't "FDA" approved, even though it has emergency approval in this emergency, yet point to a whole array of alternative "treatments" that will never have FDA approval.

[LiverpoolWalrus]

Originally Posted by golfing eagles

Care to cite a source for that. The only one I have seen states "nasal carriage loads in the vaccinated are "indistinguishable" for the unvaccinated", so quit the spin

Source please?

[DAVES]

Originally Posted by S=kBlogW

Lots of accusations flying around about this, apparently not based on actual facts.

Lets look at the data by race, from KFF (Kaiser)

Attachment 90238

Latest Data on COVID-19 Vaccinations by Race/Ethnicity | KFF

So looks like Blacks and hispanics are lagging behind asians and whites. Is this because they are poor and lack access or maybe they watch a certain news network?


Here is a vaccine locator at vaccines.gov. There are 50 locations where I can get a free covid shot within 15 miles of my home in rural Ocala. Put any zip code into the the locator and I doubt you'll find many places where there is not free vaccine available with 30 minutes of your home.

Vaccines.gov - Search for COVID-19 vaccine locations

There are some people who just plain refuse to get the jab? First of all, you have a very large group of people who have already had covid. Over 34 million cases in the USA so far, plus probably millions more who were asymptomatic and never tested. That's a very large group of people who already have immunity, and some recent studies show that natural immunity resulted in 33% lower infections.

Effectiveness of the BNT162b2 vaccine in preventing COVID-19 in the working age population – first results from a cohort study in Southern Sweden | medRxiv

People under 40 with no serious health problems represent a very small percentage of total covid deaths and are more likely to die from pneumonia or the flu.

Provisional COVID-19 Deaths by Sex and Age | Data | Centers for Disease Control and Prevention

Recently the heads of CDC, NIH, and FDA were asked what percentage of their employees were vaccinated and the answer was about 60% There are reports that 20-40% of hospital workers are not vaccinated. These people are probably more educated on disease and vaccinations than your average American.

People in The Villages who are mostly over 65, are obese/diabetic/heart problems etc are rightfully scared of this disease and get the jab as soon as possible. But you might want to step out of the bubble and consider things from another perspective.

If you are one of the millions who have already had covid, or are young and healthy, you might decline the vaccine, and have valid reasons for that decision. Recent reports are showing that the vaccines are not as effective against Delta variant and can have virus loads as high as the unvaccinated, so the antivaxxers might turn the table sand say "hey vaxxer, stay away from me and put on the mask"

Disclosure: I am over 70 with some health problems so I got both shots back in January. But that doesn't mean I have the right to tell young people or covid survivors that they MUST get the vaccine. The whole "antivaxxers are breeding ground for mutations and will kill us all" is kind of laughable. The percentage of people on this planet who have been vaccinated is very small, so mutations will continue even if every American gets the shots. We can't wall off the country from the world.

Hopefully the scientists can adjust and adapt the vaccines, but it looks like this virus is going to be around for awhile. Thanks China!

Any complex issue can be and will be SPUN to support our bias. Politically correct is yet another policy of thought control.

There is no such thing as perfect solutions to most problems and yet we demand perfection.

The vaccines. I recall waking up 5;30 AM 4-5x in an attempt to win the lottery and get an appointment. I won once got in the final line and was told all appointments were taken.
We finally got an appointment, went to the closed Sears store off 441. Truth, they did a great job for this huge mass vaccine delivery. I asked and was told they were doing 8,000 injections a day. Best I could tell they had about 20 stations. I'm sure the people were rotated but, imagine the hand fatigue from that assembly line delivery. All were both professional and pleasant a tough combination.

I did not hear any gossip about it. I did, see hear some Hispanics, heard some Italian, some ??????? Russian and some Yiddish. I saw almost no Blacks on line to receive vaccines.

I understand freedom of choice but most do not accept the freedom of risk that goes with your right to choose. Those who do not take the vaccine, will be expecting medical care whether they have paid for insurance or can pay for that care or not.

Responsibility for the choices you make is a strange concept for too many.