[JustSomeGuy]

Those in control know the situation. Key to get results is to be calm and always start public comments with "In my opinion....." Avoids legal threat. Post comments on facebook pages as replays, not new topics and post photos. Search as one considering the villages would on the internet and comment on those sites, again... with your opinion.

Sounds like the goal is not to get the CDD's to spend our money and raise our fees but to get the developer to change their procedures... in the areas being developed now. That will allow those in the deep south to play on new courses instead of making the trek north... on the multi modal paths.

Don't show outrage. Show disappointment.... In my opinion, this is not the Villages I expected......It is a shame how things, like the conditions of the golf courses and the shift to pitch and putts has changed the Villages. I never expected to not be able to get a tee time during the week or get a tee time on a course where, in my opinion, greens are worst than municipal courses I use to pay 35 dollars for before I moved here.....

Give those looking the questions to ask... what are my changes of getting a tee time on a Saturday during January? If I were looking at the villages I would ask for a tour of the courses (name them) before buying.... the new course by the turnpike is not the one you will be playing most weeks.....

Behavior changes when the pocket book is impacted.

Have you looked in to Sun City Center outside of Tampa? Courses were sold to a third party and now many have closed... the new owner wants to build more homes on the old courses. Very sad. Also the reason I did not consider that development. I found out via comments left on sites.

We have purchased our homes. Our leverage is near zero. But if our opinion starts to cause buyers to ask specific questions of their Villages realtor....Boom... changes will happen.

[Papa_lecki]

Originally Posted by JustSomeGuy

Sounds like the goal is not to get the CDD's to spend our money and raise our fees but to get the developer to change their procedures... in the areas being developed now. That will allow those in the deep south to play on new courses instead of making the trek north... on the multi modal paths.

More like stop wasting money. We are paying a contractor to maintain the course and they are not.

Executives are closed and courses have to re furnished. They are just killing the grass and re-seeding.

[Mrmean58]

Originally Posted by BrianL99

Yes.

While all those have an effect, they are behaviors that golf courses everywhere, deal with and have for the history of golf.

Those problems aren't isolated to The Villages and not the major cause of the horrendous conditions on many of TV's golf courses.

While your reply is true, I do not believe other courses deal with the huge numbers of rounds played each day as we do in TV. We often hear comments about how "my course up north". 1) you are playing your course during prime grass growing season and 2) your course is probably luck to get 70-80 rounds in a day where each course here both exec and champ get 230-260 rounds per day.

[golfing eagles]

Originally Posted by Mrmean58

While your reply is true, I do not believe other courses deal with the huge numbers of rounds played each day as we do in TV. We often hear comments about how "my course up north". 1) you are playing your course during prime grass growing season and 2) your course is probably luck to get 70-80 rounds in a day where each course here both exec and champ get 230-260 rounds per day.

During the long days of summer, each of the 5 courses at Bethpage, including the black get 420 rounds/day. Same is true at Eisenhower Park's 3 courses. Private courses likely get much less play. Many courses in our area are fully booked as well, so "huge numbers of rounds played" is not a phenomenon unique to The Villages. I've been saying for 10 years---just recruit the greens superintendent from Julliette Falls and pay him whatever he wants, there doesn't seem to ever be bad conditions there.

[Annie66]

I'm a golfer who attempts to play executives twice a week. I truly like the idea of limiting the number of tee times to reduce the impact of heavy play. Even though I sometimes get shut out for tee times, if the quality of play is enhanced by good playing condition, I'm all for it. Putting on mostly dirt or weed infested greens just doesn't add to my enjoyment.

[Rwirish]

It’s not heavy usage, it’s El Niño.

[Nana2Teddy]

I’m not a golfer yet, but I do read these threads out of curiosity. While watching a live Q&A show on YouTube with Don Wiley (Gold Wingnut) a week ago he was asked about the poor condition of many of the courses. He said TV is dealing with a serious fungal infection on many courses and working on it, but it’s not an easy fix. This is just my best recollection of his response, not a quote. Since fungus hasn’t been mentioned in this comment thread I’m assuming it’s not common knowledge.

[golfing eagles]

Originally Posted by Rwirish

It’s not heavy usage, it’s El Niño.

I partially agree. Many courses have heavy usage, it's not a huge factor. Yes, if a course is closed 6 months out of the year and gets about 20 rounds/ day with a huge maintenance staff and expert agronomists(Augusta National), conditions are pristine. But that is the exception. Many courses as I stated in a post just above have heavy play and good conditions.

El Nino has had some effect---just look at this week at PGA National. I've played that course half a dozen times and the rough was always twice as deep and thick as this year---grass needs sunshine to grow. But that's not the whole story either.

And neither of these explain the difference in conditions say between Glenview and Havana

My take is:
#1) We need expert agronomists and to pay expert golf course maintenance companies rather than lawn care companies. With over 1,000,000 rounds/year on champ courses and an average of say $60/round, the money is there. Just do the math: It takes about $500,000 to maintain 9 holes in excellent condition, we currently have 36 "9's" of champ golf, so that would be $18M out of $60M. Employees, full and part time, let's say the equivalent of 20 FTE's each on 13 courses (5 office workers, 3 managers, a pro, 3 starters 2 ambassadors=14 x 50% more hours than full time for weekends and long days) and a generous average of $20/hour= 13x20x2,000 hrsx$20/hr= $10.4M/year. Now were up to 28.4M out of the $60M in greens fees. Overhead for building maintenance, cart paths, parking lots, electricity, HVAC? No idea, but I would doubt more than $10M/year. Even if these assumptions are off, there is still $21.6M of play room. IMHO, this is very "doable"

#2. We need golfers, meaning ourselves, friends and neighbors without exception to take care of the courses. Fix more ball marks than you make. Fill an extra divot or 2. Rake a second set of footprints. If you have a CAP it is not carte blanche to drive anywhere you please.

[Keither]

Originally Posted by Papa_lecki

There have been many threads this spring about the deplorable exec and champ course conditions. In my experience, the executives are worse than they’ve been in the last few years, the champs are as bad as the have been historically (albeit not good, just about the same as the last few years). For example, Havana has been bad the last few years.

WHAT DO WE (as residents) DO?
email the paper?
Email someone in the developer’s org?
Email someone in the districts org (or some other home owner org)?

We should be coordinated;; i.e. the same message to the same group of people.

Any ideas?

If the overall maintenance of all golf courses hasn't hit rock bottom, we are darn close! The maintenance budget seems incredibly low, and the processes are lacking.

The bermuda grass doesn't grow during these cold winters. Coming from Arizona, golf courses are overseeded with lush green rye grass. Courses are watered and fertilized regularly. They are mowed at least weekly. Greens are growing grass and are free of weeds and clumps. On many courses in The Villages, we putt on dirt that is painted green. And it's like playing pinball with the balls bouncing off clumps of weeds on the greens. Nothing grows during the winter with the type of grass we have.

We overplay all courses during the winter season because the developers (grandchildren) haven't kept up with supply and building enough golf courses to keep up with the exploding homes and population added over the past five years. Just take a drive over to Eastport and watch the homes being built. If only the developers would add sufficient courses in the same manner as they expertly add homes in our community.

Golf courses in this active community is one of the ingredients of the "secret sauce" attracting more baby boomers to The Villages enabling the developers to sell more and more and more homes. They seem to be tone deaf on the issues of (1) PROPER PROACTIVE course maintenance and (2) under supply or not building enough golf courses. The addition of 4 executive and 3 championship courses in Eastport is a start. It won't satisfy the current excessive demand nor will it handle the growing demand for tee times during The Villages 'season' as new homes are added by the thousands.

It appears the developers are detached from these issues (poor course maintenance and too few courses built to meet the growing demand). We must mobilize and promote this problem (if you will) in The Villages. It will take this community action from us residents to impact home sales that will FINALLY get the attention of the developers. If potential buyers become aware of these shortcomings of the poor golf course management, it might impact home sales to get them to take action. This movement by the residents needs to gain momentum, and continue to publicize this massive failing grade in The Villages right now. It will take years to correct this problem.

For those who care about improving the golf course problems, please continue to get this message out!!!!!!

[hardwick2112@yahoo.com]

Some courses outside TV come with carts and lunch included.

[ThirdOfFive]

Originally Posted by tophcfa

Both suggestions would yield positive results, but don’t hold your breath waiting for those to happen. The suggestions in post #2 are a more realistic approach.

The absolute most effective way to see results would be for prospective home buyers to back away from purchasing and leave strong feedback that the reason is both poor/inconsistent golf conditions and difficulty getting T Times on the Executives.

The quoted statement is almost...not quite, but close...to being an oxymoron. If courses were as bad across-the-board and some people seem to think they are, then it would be logical to expect that there would be MORE tee times available, and consequently less waiting for tee times to open up.

Truth seems to be that conditions vary tremendously from course to course. The proof of this seems to be that the same five or six courses are mentioned time after time after time as being "unplayable". In the past ten days I've played El Diablo, Hilltop and Briarwood. All three were in very good shape with the exception of some mud in fairways. Hilltop in particular had greens that were as good as they could be. El Diablo had a green or two that was a bit spotty but it has come a LONG way from a month to six weeks ago.

Nevertheless it is valid to question what seems to be hit-and-miss maintenance. You can't blame folks if their favorite courses look like hog wallows or weed patches. I've often wondered just what is the mindset driving this. Is it to do just enough maintenance to get by (and thus spend less money) or are the powers-that-be striving for excellence? If it is the former, than the only thing that will get things to change is A) a concerted effort to get golfers' displeasure known, and B) if that doesn't work, hit those same powers-that-be in the pocketbook. How? Maybe be a bit easier on the championship courses (a one-day boycott would get noticed) but not so much on the execs as the amenity fees cover them.

[GizmoWhiskers]

Anyone do a study on short term rental numbers and the impact on the overall number of golf course and amenities usage as far as getting tee times and wear and tear on both?

Not every resident living or renting long term use the amenities at all or everyday.

Short term renters are at T V resort for a visit to use the amenities and to... PLAY GOLF and hang out at the town squares for a couple of days, weeks, or month. Yippee!!

Seems like the deplorable golf courses and tee time issues are a no brainer to me. Think people care about long term resident's pride in ownership and amenity conditions when they are breezing through? "Drive it like a rental".

[jimbria]

We moved here 10 years ago for many reasons with golf a major reason. This season the courses are by far the worse I have ever seen.
The next ten years will be critical to home values if the courses don’t improve- significantly. They will decline!.
There have been many good suggestions as to what we should do. An organized email, calls etc may get the developers attention

[guitarguy]

Golf channel broadcast from west palm beach on Thursday announced this at start of the broadcast. Florida has had a cloudy and cool winter, you are going to see worn and bare spots on the course. Mother Nature has been tough this winter.
Add that to our heavy use of the courses and we see the results.
Staff turnover-yes. Poorly trained or supervised staff-perhaps on a course by course basis.

[bsloan1960]

Originally Posted by kcrazorbackfan

You people doing the most complaining about the conditions are probably the ones that never fix ball marks, never sand divots, never rake traps, drive through wet areas, pull right up next to the greens, drive between the traps and the greens, pull off the cart path pulling up to the tee box - anyone want to add anything else?

Are all of the conclusions that reside in your head wild guesses- all lacking any evidence whatsoever? Or are all of your other ideas founded upon facts- with this one being the only outlier?