[golfing eagles]

Originally Posted by GizmoWhiskers

Anyone do a study on short term rental numbers and the impact on the overall number of golf course and amenities usage as far as getting tee times and wear and tear on both?

Not every resident living or renting long term use the amenities at all or everyday.

Short term renters are at T V resort for a visit to use the amenities and to... PLAY GOLF and hang out at the town squares for a couple of days, weeks, or month. Yippee!!

Seems like the deplorable golf courses and tee time issues are a no brainer to me. Think people care about long term resident's pride in ownership and amenity conditions when they are breezing through? "Drive it like a rental".

Which brings up another point I've made before. Florida law may prevent communities from regulating short term rentals, but The Villages are under no obligation whatsoever to give guest passes to STRs. Would reduce the problem in a hurry. (Yes, I realize that it is technically not a guest pass but a transfer of owner ID, but no reason that couldn't be changed to exclude rentals of less than 1 month)

[bragones]

Introduce the concept of "limited" free golf.

[BrianL99]

Originally Posted by golfing eagles

My take is:
#1) We need expert agronomists and to pay expert golf course maintenance companies rather than lawn care companies. With over 1,000,000 rounds/year on champ courses and an average of say $60/round, the money is there. Just do the math: It takes about $500,000 to maintain 9 holes in excellent condition, we currently have 36 "9's" of champ golf, so that would be $18M out of $60M. Employees, full and part time, let's say the equivalent of 20 FTE's each on 13 courses (5 office workers, 3 managers, a pro, 3 starters 2 ambassadors=14 x 50% more hours than full time for weekends and long days) and a generous average of $20/hour= 13x20x2,000 hrsx$20/hr= $10.4M/year. Now were up to 28.4M out of the $60M in greens fees. Overhead for building maintenance, cart paths, parking lots, electricity, HVAC? No idea, but I would doubt more than $10M/year. Even if these assumptions are off, there is still $21.6M of play room. IMHO, this is very "doable"

I think you're fairly close on your numbers. I did a rough analysis last year, backed up by a few quotes I found online as to the # of rounds. I think this year, the Championship courses will do 1.2M rounds (18 hole rounds) at a yield of about $60/round ... about $72,000,000.

With maintenance (IMO, you're little light on budget for 9 holes) at $600K/year and expenses for staffing, overhead, etc, I would put the # just under $1M/year/9 holes. I would consider parking lots, clubhouse maintenance, etc, to be overhead to the Country Club (restaurant). Close enough to your number.

$72,000,000 gross revenue. $33,000,000 CoGS. Throw in 20% margin of error, now we're at $39,000,000 CoGS.

$33,000,000 gross profit. 45% Profit. Not bad work if you can get it.

[golfing eagles]

Originally Posted by bragones

Introduce the concept of "limited" free golf.

Yes----limited to owners and renters of 30 days or more, as well as their guests. Not much of a limitation except for the Airbnb's and other STRs. Residents other than golfers would benefit as well---less crowding on pickleball courts and other activities at the Rec Centers such as exercise classes. Just how attractive would a STR in The Villages be if all you could do is stare at the four walls?

[johnboy]

Originally Posted by rustyp

Want to improve conditions on the executive courses ? Decrease demand :
1 - Build more executive courses in the south
2 - Have them lower the high season prices on the championship courses !

And although I would like to see them lower the high season prices, how is that going to improve the conditions of the courses. There would be more of a demand than there is right now!

[coleprice]

Originally Posted by Papa_lecki

There have been many threads this spring about the deplorable exec and champ course conditions. In my experience, the executives are worse than they’ve been in the last few years, the champs are as bad as the have been historically (albeit not good, just about the same as the last few years). For example, Havana has been bad the last few years.

WHAT DO WE (as residents) DO?
email the paper?
Email someone in the developer’s org?
Email someone in the districts org (or some other home owner org)?

We should be coordinated;; i.e. the same message to the same group of people.

Any ideas?

The Villages Leadership is Aware of Golf Course "Condition" Issue, so they need to act. The VP employed by The Villages who is responsible for Golf Course Management should be FIRED! Their replacement will (1) Make necessary Organizational Changes, (2) Establish Priorities and (3) Direct & Empower those directly responsible for maintaining Golf Courses in good, playable condition. With the right leadership, this can be accomplished within the current budget. Of course, those of us playing the courses need to do our part by fixing divots and ball marks.

[Jim1mack]

A simple sign at the starters shack and on the Ambassador's cart stating:

'Reparing All Divots and Ball Marks Is Expected'.

Simple and little cost.

[jojoturf]

Here’s my take — greens are the main issue, far outweighing bad fairways, bunkers or tee boxes, so;
1) grounds management need to focus on recovering the greens,
2) close courses that are awful — haven’t seen Tarpon Boil on the close list & it’s greens are horrible
3) open Southern Star & Yankee Clipper to offset closures — rode by both of these on Wednesday, they look in fabulous shape!
4) get building new courses in the south, across the turnpike there is plenty of open space. No more pitch & putt or putt-putt courses are necessary.

🤞

[G.R.I.T.S.]

Originally Posted by Bill14564

Perhaps 3 - Limit the number of tee times to reduce wear and tear

If the amount of traffic is causing the degradation of the courses then decrease the amount of traffic. Yes, everyone resident is entitled to free golf on the executive courses as part of the amenity fee. Everyone also is entitled to sit in the squares but there are a limited number of seats and there are times when people get turned away. The same could be true for the courses - if the heavy usage of the courses is what is causing the poor conditions then reduce the usage by turning (more) people away. There will certainly be complaints from those that are turned away but unlike today, the courses should be in better shape for those who do get to play.

Add to that the increased number of total slobs that do not repair ball marks, fill divots with sand and rake traps. I repair an average of about 3 ball marks per hole, over the course of 9 holes. Not a solution to everything but being a good steward of our community will only enhance our lifestyle. Do your part!

[3105boy]

It’s not wear and tear but loss of grass on the greens that’s causing dissatisfaction this season. Greenskeepers need supervision and training. They need to hand-water tee boxes and kill weed grass before it spreads. They need to stop excessive aeration (punching) of the greens!!

[Blueblaze]

Personally, my solution is to just wait for the snowbirds to go home.

You sure don't want management to discover that your favorite executive course needs attention. They'll shut it down for a year while they spend 5 milllion dollars to dig up and cart away entire greens, tee boxes, and bunkers, only to replace them with the exact same stuff. And then they'll ban you from using them for six months until the snowbirds arrive to reduce them to rubble again by February.

And lord help you, if they ever catch you walking your dog on their pristine masterpiece while it awaits its January re-destruction!

[Doug17s]

We usually play the executive courses and I always wonder why the grass is cut so low. I understand that the grass is dormant this time of year but grass still grows, although at a slower rate. Let the grass grow to a reasonable height!

[golfing eagles]

Originally Posted by Blueblaze

Personally, my solution is to just wait for the snowbirds to go home.

You sure don't want management to discover that your favorite executive course needs attention. They'll shut it down for a year while they spend 5 milllion dollars to dig up and cart away entire greens, tee boxes, and bunkers, only to replace them with the exact same stuff. And then they'll ban you from using them for six months until the snowbirds arrive to reduce them to rubble again by February.

And lord help you, if they ever catch you walking your dog on their pristine masterpiece while it awaits its January re-destruction!

I doubt "snowbirds" (seasonal residents who are owners and therefore have a vested interest in our community) are the problem. Renters, especially those that do not return year after year and STRs are probably an issue. Lack of knowledge by those maintaining the course is probably a huge factor.

And there is ABSOLUTELY NO REASON, EVER, TO WALK YOUR DOG ON GOLF COURSE PROPERTY!

[Desiderata]

Originally Posted by golfing eagles

Which brings up another point I've made before. Florida law may prevent communities from regulating short term rentals, but The Villages are under no obligation whatsoever to give guest passes to STRs. Would reduce the problem in a hurry. (Yes, I realize that it is technically not a guest pass but a transfer of owner ID, but no reason that couldn't be changed to exclude rentals of less than 1 month)

I love this idea!

[tophcfa]

Originally Posted by golfing eagles

Which brings up another point I've made before. Florida law may prevent communities from regulating short term rentals, but The Villages are under no obligation whatsoever to give guest passes to STRs. Would reduce the problem in a hurry. (Yes, I realize that it is technically not a guest pass but a transfer of owner ID, but no reason that couldn't be changed to exclude rentals of less than 1 month)

That’s a great idea!