[BrianL99]

Originally Posted by UpNorth

Poor conditions combined with an epidemic of sprouting poa annua. Spreading from the fringe onto the green. The only way to get rid of this is to kill the entire green and replant. Nothing kills poa annua without killing the rest of the grass.

Poa Annua is resilient and pervasive, but there are products and cultivation practices that can control it and virtually eliminate it as a problem, but it akes consistent and proper maintenance practices for it to be effective. Not something The Villages are noted for.

[Lowcap]

I think its pitiful that some people no matter how good they have it, still have to find something to gripe about. take your money and go else where. We had one of the coldest winters on record. Most of these course are in pretty darn good shape. In the middle of Winter when you lose turf, I dont care how good you are, it will not recover until temperatures are consistently above 60 at night. Thats why it takes a good part of summer to heal them up. And whoever the genius is that thinks he knows about poa annua. Why do you think Pebble Beach has Poa greens. Its not because they planted it. There are no cultural practices that prevent it. The only tools are herbicides. Whether pre-emergent ( very risky due to burn on greens) and post- emergent (these strands the past couple years have become resistant to all but a couple products (which are also very risky). THat could be what happened to this poor guy!
These people that take care of the course are all very experienced professionals. But when your dealing with living breathing organisms and mother nature, your best efforts are sometimes not enough. The water quality doesnt help nor does the foot traffic these course take. Your taking a plant and mowing it at 1/10" and expecting it to look perfect all the time. Instead of ripping these people down and blaming the Villages for some type of Conspiracy, bake these heros some cookies and thank them for their hard work for you have NO IDEA the hard work that goes into these courses. P.S. its usually the worst golfers that complain the loudest. The ones that never picked up a club until moving down here and thinking now they made it to the big time. Sorry for the rant. Got carried away.

[BrianL99]

Originally Posted by Lowcap

I think its pitiful that some people no matter how good they have it, still have to find something to gripe about. take your money and go else where. We had one of the coldest winters on record. Most of these course are in pretty darn good shape. In the middle of Winter when you lose turf, I dont care how good you are, it will not recover until temperatures are consistently above 60 at night. Thats why it takes a good part of summer to heal them up. And whoever the genius is that thinks he knows about poa annua. Why do you think Pebble Beach has Poa greens. Its not because they planted it. There are no cultural practices that prevent it. The only tools are herbicides. Whether pre-emergent ( very risky due to burn on greens) and post- emergent (these strands the past couple years have become resistant to all but a couple products (which are also very risky). THat could be what happened to this poor guy!
These people that take care of the course are all very experienced professionals. But when your dealing with living breathing organisms and mother nature, your best efforts are sometimes not enough. The water quality doesnt help nor does the foot traffic these course take. Your taking a plant and mowing it at 1/10" and expecting it to look perfect all the time. Instead of ripping these people down and blaming the Villages for some type of Conspiracy, bake these heros some cookies and thank them for their hard work for you have NO IDEA the hard work that goes into these courses. P.S. its usually the worst golfers that complain the loudest. The ones that never picked up a club until moving down here and thinking now they made it to the big time. Sorry for the rant. Got carried away.

Pebble Beach, Oakmont, Pine Valley, Muirfield Village & Rivieira all have Poa Annua Greens, because it's the best "grass" for their local conditions.

The Villages does not have Poa Annua Greens, because in this climate, it's a "weed" and won't perform as a grass for greens.

I enjoy the occasional rant myself, but I try to limit my rants to subjects I have knowledge of ... not the ones I spent 10 minutes researching with Google.

[Pairadocs]

Originally Posted by Dr Winston O Boogie jr

It's not going to change. Only a small percentage of your amenity fee goes into executive golf maintenance. The rest is for flowers, cart paths, pools, rec centers, pickle ball and tennis courts, softball fields etc.

I've had discussion with those in charge and they blame the high traffic in the winter.

I've worked at several golf courses in Florida in the winter and they were always maintained well during the winter months. It's mostly a matter of money. The Villages wants to keep offering "FREE Golf". They don't make any money from the execs so they aren't going to put a lot into them.

If they were designed and constructed better from the start it wouldn't be quite as bad. But it is what it is and it's not going to change.

Totally agree. When you develop a money making "machine", and offer a compelling aspect (such as "free" golf for a life time), you certainly don't invest an extravagant amount into the asset(s) that do NOT produce profits. Also agree about that the basic construction DOES make a huge difference in the on going maintenance expenses ( I would have no idea about this, but one of our nephew is a golf course architect/engineer in south Florida, he explained how important construction is for keeping maintenance costs low). Having said all that, it's obvious the Villages can not completely ignore executive grooming and maintenance... like a car dealer who must keep a few "loss leaders" to attract customers, can't ignore executives completely. We've always been able to find another one to play when some are simply intolerable.

[Jayhawk]

Originally Posted by Lowcap

I think its pitiful that some people no matter how good they have it, still have to find something to gripe about. take your money and go else where. We had one of the coldest winters on record. Most of these course are in pretty darn good shape. In the middle of Winter when you lose turf, I dont care how good you are, it will not recover until temperatures are consistently above 60 at night. Thats why it takes a good part of summer to heal them up. And whoever the genius is that thinks he knows about poa annua. Why do you think Pebble Beach has Poa greens. Its not because they planted it. There are no cultural practices that prevent it. The only tools are herbicides. Whether pre-emergent ( very risky due to burn on greens) and post- emergent (these strands the past couple years have become resistant to all but a couple products (which are also very risky). THat could be what happened to this poor guy!
These people that take care of the course are all very experienced professionals. But when your dealing with living breathing organisms and mother nature, your best efforts are sometimes not enough. The water quality doesnt help nor does the foot traffic these course take. Your taking a plant and mowing it at 1/10" and expecting it to look perfect all the time. Instead of ripping these people down and blaming the Villages for some type of Conspiracy, bake these heros some cookies and thank them for their hard work for you have NO IDEA the hard work that goes into these courses. P.S. its usually the worst golfers that complain the loudest. The ones that never picked up a club until moving down here and thinking now they made it to the big time. Sorry for the rant. Got carried away.

Nominated for Best Post of the Day.

[Keefelane66]

Originally Posted by Bogie Shooter

Don’t the exec’s belong to the District?

Yes but the same people who take care of the championship also take care of executives...

[Innserelli]

Originally Posted by jszloh

I played palmetto today and the greens are pathetic. Inch high tufts of grass right next to bare sand. Can not even putt. What are we getting for our $180 amenity fees? Someone needs to be held accountable for this total incompetence. It has happened before and there is really no excuse.

Also agree. We played there Saturday and they all looked just like your photo. However given all the sand and the fact that they were watering and also filling the ponds, it may be that they are working to improve the greens. If so, it will take some time.

[Bellavita]

BELMONT was just as bad... its a sad day when the Villages lets its courses get this bad.

Originally Posted by jszloh

I played palmetto today and the greens are pathetic. Inch high tufts of grass right next to bare sand. Can not even putt. What are we getting for our $180 amenity fees? Someone needs to be held accountable for this total incompetence. It has happened before and there is really no excuse.

[HoosierPa]

Played Palmetto yesterday. I try not to complain unless warranted and I can’t help but agree Palmetto is in rough shape

[HoosierPa]

Originally Posted by Pairadocs

Totally agree. When you develop a money making "machine", and offer a compelling aspect (such as "free" golf for a life time), you certainly don't invest an extravagant amount into the asset(s) that do NOT produce profits. Also agree about that the basic construction DOES make a huge difference in the on going maintenance expenses ( I would have no idea about this, but one of our nephew is a golf course architect/engineer in south Florida, he explained how important construction is for keeping maintenance costs low). Having said all that, it's obvious the Villages can not completely ignore executive grooming and maintenance... like a car dealer who must keep a few "loss leaders" to attract customers, can't ignore executives completely. We've always been able to find another one to play when some are simply intolerable.

The CDD’s budget maintains the executive courses, not the Developer so go to you elected CDD Supervisor for action.

[PeteF]

Played it on March 4 ... really really bad shape ... going to the driving range would have been more fun.

[arickis]

Originally Posted by jszloh

I played palmetto today and the greens are pathetic. Inch high tufts of grass right next to bare sand. Can not even putt. What are we getting for our $180 amenity fees? Someone needs to be held accountable for this total incompetence. It has happened before and there is really no excuse.

Direct all complaints to the director of executive golf maintenance
Mitch.leininger@districtgov.org

[Tvflguy]

Played there yesterday. Not only were the greens terrible but there was a smell in some areas. Typically we think it’s from the ponds but they all looked clear, no algae etc. but there was a lot of duck crap around and some thought we were downwind when we noticed the odor.

We asked the Starter about the green conditions after playing. He just shrugged his shoulders. “I know, lots of complaints…”.

Also not only were the greens riddled with bare spots, small weeds, and sandy areas- where they WAS grass it was way too long. Putting any distance was a kiss and a prayer.

[fdpaq0580]

Originally Posted by Tvflguy

Played there yesterday. Not only were the greens terrible but there was a smell in some areas. Typically we think it’s from the ponds but they all looked clear, no algae etc. but there was a lot of duck crap around and some thought we were downwind when we noticed the odor.

We asked the Starter about the green conditions after playing. He just shrugged his shoulders. “I know, lots of complaints…”.

Also not only were the greens riddled with bare spots, small weeds, and sandy areas- where they WAS grass it was way too long. Putting any distance was a kiss and a prayer.

I am not responsible for the condition of the greens.
As for the smell, that is what happens when I eat broccoli slaw. My apologies.

[fdpaq0580]

Originally Posted by Lowcap

Sorry for the rant. Got carried away.

Great rant! You should get "carried away" more often.
Sadly, though, what you have left us with is the belief that the terrible course conditions really are the best the maintenance crew is capable of. Very sad commentary on TV golf.