[glencus]

Originally Posted by graciegirl

FORE!!!!!!!!

Getting things improved here is VERY, VERY, Very, very, very, hard to do.

Because very few things need improving.

Now if "THEY" could teach me to hit a one iron as well as I do my six, you would have my attention. If "they" could make my paints capture the beauty of Shrandell's photographs, I would listen. If "they" were someone ANY of us have met we could thank them in person for continuing to improve this place as they go along. After all, the overwhelming percentage of all of The Villages was NOT here just 12 years ago.

I think "they" do very well trying to please us all.

Not that things can't be improved, but not much comes to my mind right now.

Our courses here are used and abused by a lot of rookie golfers and the water allowed to maintain the courses is not unlimited as it was on our courses in Ohio. We also have a lot of carts with handicapped stickers allowed to run up near the greens and that is necessary but not as frequently seen as in other areas. It also is much, much, much, less expensive, and that in itself is very nice...and there is just not ONE course to cuss on. We can spoil our good walk on 12 Championship and 30? executive courses.

Sand your divots and rake the traps.

Gracie, who LOVES it here

This Thread is not a referendum on The Villages. It's about Golf Course Conditions. Your comments in that aspect of your response are exactly the reasons given by Golf Course Administrators to get complainers off their backs. This gets to the heart of the issue that most Villagers accept these conditions because they do not know any better.

[graciegirl]

Originally Posted by glencus

This Thread is not a referendum on The Villages. It's about Golf Course Conditions. Your comments in that aspect of your response are exactly the reasons given by Golf Course Administrators to get complainers off their backs. This gets to the heart of the issue that most Villagers accept these conditions because they do not know any better.

Thank you. I allowed a recent grievance to get the best of me. I will try to do better.

I have played a few courses here and about in my 40 some years of golfing. All I can say is the price is right and it is pretty amazing and wonderful to take your golf cart to all these halfway nice courses as you grow older and your game decays and it is nice to keep your greenbacks in the bank too for when they might need to take care of you 'round the clock.

It isn't golf as many of us knew it and it isn't like back home in many of the clubs some of us belonged to where they would upgrade the course and dock you thousands of dollars on top of the thousand dollar a month membership fee and the monthly restaurant charge even if you didn't eat and the cart fee and and playing with the same group all of the time, some of whom were unbearable. This was after some folks paid upwards of 50K to join, after being checked out thoroughly. Where everyone you knew also knew your handicap and where there was a dandy locker room and the clubs were on the cart waiting when you drove up... BUT....we still can go off campus and sojourn out to Pebble Beach, it too is a municipal course and we can pay them close to 600 bucks to play a round. The deer and the wind and the vistas are magnificent, the greens are like velvet and the rough is to be avoided and the fairways look like top grade Bigelow carpet. It is surrounded by some wonderful homes on 17 mile drive that are "point" houses and some of them are very not kept up but although windy there in Carmel it isn't freezing cold wind like at St. Andrews and well you know....

What do I know? I am told I am a shill for the developers.

I think I'm mad.

[nitehawk]

Originally Posted by glencus

This Thread is not a referendum on The Villages. It's about Golf Course Conditions. Your comments in that aspect of your response are exactly the reasons given by Golf Course Administrators to get complainers off their backs. This gets to the heart of the issue that most Villagers accept these conditions because they do not know any better.

Please do not drink the kool aid

[Mikeod]

Today's Villages Voice had some figures that I find interesting. Last year there were 836,218 rounds of golf played on the championship courses. So, we are approaching 90,000 rounds on each course. ( I adjusted for Palmer since it gets significantly less play due to the higher fees I imagine. Could also be a factor in the condition as well.)

So, how does that volume compare to the volume on some of these outside courses people are promoting?

[mulligan]

Also, as far as mowing the fairways and rough, since they use dwarf bentgrass, probably only the weeds would get taller.

[Mikeod]

Originally Posted by mulligan

Also, as far as mowing the fairways and rough, since they use dwarf bentgrass, probably only the weeds would get taller.

Fairways appear to be hybrid bermuda, probably tifway or Tifway II. I doubt they would use a dwarf strain on fairways because of the cart traffic.

[djl8412]

Let's see now: we've had inadequate rainfall but one of the most advanced irrigation systems able to transfer water to and from retention ponds to compensate but still have increasing poor course conditions. Yesterday, Bonifay became cart path only late in the afternoon because of standing water on many parts of the course. It couldn't handle a half-inch of rain in a 2-hour period. AMAZING!

[mickey100]

Originally Posted by graciegirl

FORE!!!!!!!!

Getting things improved here is VERY, VERY, Very, very, very, hard to do.

Because very few things need improving....
Our courses here are used and abused by a lot of rookie golfers and the water allowed to maintain the courses is not unlimited as it was on our courses in Ohio. We also have a lot of carts with handicapped stickers allowed to run up near the greens and that is necessary but not as frequently seen as in other areas. It also is much, much, much, less expensive, and that in itself is very nice...and there is just not ONE course to cuss on. We can spoil our good walk on 12 Championship and 30? executive courses.

Sand your divots and rake the traps.

Gracie, who LOVES it here

First of all, golf is not less less less expensive here than it was for me in New York state. And your comment about 12 "championship" courses is a moot point. What good is having all the courses if they are in poor condition? Our course up north had reciprocals with other clubs so we could play them for free, or just a cart fee. And the courses were much nicer than these down here, at approximately the same price. And as much as you might love the opportunity to take your own golf cart onto the golf course, don't forget you are paying for the cart and its maintenance, to do so.

[Mikeod]

Originally Posted by djl8412

Let's see now: we've had inadequate rainfall but one of the most advanced irrigation systems able to transfer water to and from retention ponds to compensate but still have increasing poor course conditions. Yesterday, Bonifay became cart path only late in the afternoon because of standing water on many parts of the course. It couldn't handle a half-inch of rain in a 2-hour period. AMAZING!

Not sure why you would be amazed. The dry, compacted ground will not soak up water like a sponge. That's how flash floods happen in the southwest deserts. This is not like the organic, rich soil you may find in a temperate climate. Last summer I played World Woods after a similar storm and there were places where water filled the sand traps and onto parts of the fairway even a day later. And that's one of the most highly rated courses in FL and has a fairly sandy base. It's not unusual.

[graciegirl]

Originally Posted by mickey100

First of all, golf is not less less less expensive here than it was for me in New York state. And your comment about 12 "championship" courses is a moot point. What good is having all the courses if they are in poor condition? Our course up north had reciprocals with other clubs so we could play them for free, or just a cart fee. And the courses were much nicer than these down here, at approximately the same price. And as much as you might love the opportunity to take your own golf cart onto the golf course, don't forget you are paying for the cart and its maintenance, to do so.

The climate up north is different and if those courses had the traffic these courses have and the water restrictions, well things would be different. Different grass, different heat, different traffic. The prices here are reasonable. Not cheap and not expensive and I think that having all of these choices within a golf cart ride means something. The game of golf is played against one's best game and one does not have to have a course in perfect condition to enjoy it. Things could always be better and they also could be one h*** of a lot worse too.

[djl8412]

Originally Posted by mikeod

Not sure why you would be amazed. The dry, compacted ground will not soak up water like a sponge. That's how flash floods happen in the southwest deserts. This is not like the organic, rich soil you may find in a temperate climate. Last summer I played World Woods after a similar storm and there were places where water filled the sand traps and onto parts of the fairway even a day later. And that's one of the most highly rated courses in FL and has a fairly sandy base. It's not unusual.

So why is the ground allowed to get so dry and compacted in the first place? Remember now: we supposedly have one of the most advanced irrigation systems in FL and these current conditions were not as common here in earlier years.

[glencus]

Originally Posted by djl8412

So why is the ground allowed to get so dry and compacted in the first place? Remember now: we supposedly have one of the most advanced irrigation systems in FL and these current conditions were not as common here in earlier years.

The ground is so dry because they build the courses on the cheap. They don't build greens, they just flatten the dirt. And contrary to your concept, these course, those that were here years ago, were just as bad. How do you like conditions at the Oaks, which will probably be no better after the surgical repairs they are now touting. TDS, real soft and will be just as "soft" after a summer vacation. Oh, as for the advanced irrigation system, what good is it if you don't put enough water on the courses. Been here long enough to know that nothing is going to change. Why spend money when residents are content with poor conditions. Will keep playing here as this is where I've made my bed. Don't have to like it however.

[graciegirl]

Originally Posted by glencus

The ground is so dry because they build the courses on the cheap. They don't build greens, they just flatten the dirt. And contrary to your concept, these course, those that were here years ago, were just as bad. How do you like conditions at the Oaks, which will probably be no better after the surgical repairs they are now touting. TDS, real soft and will be just as "soft" after a summer vacation. Oh, as for the advanced irrigation system, what good is it if you don't put enough water on the courses. Been here long enough to know that nothing is going to change. Why spend money when residents are content with poor conditions. Will keep playing here as this is where I've made my bed. Don't have to like it however.

Noted.

[Mikeod]

Originally Posted by djl8412

So why is the ground allowed to get so dry and compacted in the first place? Remember now: we supposedly have one of the most advanced irrigation systems in FL and these current conditions were not as common here in earlier years.

Here is how they "allowed" the ground to get so hard. In case it's not clear, what I have posted is the actual rainfall for each month from January through May for 2006-2013. At the bottom is the historical average rainfall for those months. I quick look at the +/- number beside each month's rainfall shows that only one month in that period had more than average rainfall, and one month matched average. Every other month had a deficit. For the years shown, the average monthly deficit ranged from a low of 1.36 to a high of 3.04 inches. So, we've had below average rainfall in the months leading up to the hurricane season each year for the last 8 years. I don't care how advanced your irrigation system is, it cannot manufacture rainfall. Without rain, grass won't grow.

Now guess what the average number of rounds played on TV courses during those years did. Yup, it grew. So more rounds, more carts driving down the fairways, and less rain. Great for grass growing, NOT.

Disclaimer: I am not now, nor have ever been, an employee of golf administration or any of the maintenance contractors at TV.

[Mikeod]

Originally Posted by glencus

The ground is so dry because they build the courses on the cheap. They don't build greens, they just flatten the dirt. And contrary to your concept, these course, those that were here years ago, were just as bad. How do you like conditions at the Oaks, which will probably be no better after the surgical repairs they are now touting. TDS, real soft and will be just as "soft" after a summer vacation. Oh, as for the advanced irrigation system, what good is it if you don't put enough water on the courses. Been here long enough to know that nothing is going to change. Why spend money when residents are content with poor conditions. Will keep playing here as this is where I've made my bed. Don't have to like it however.

Please refer to my post on the rainfall deficit over the last 8 years.

The rest of your post regarding course construction is so ludicrous it destroys any credence your argument may otherwise possess.

And it must be nice to be psychic and know in advance how course renovation will turn out. What are the numbers for the next Powerball?