[eweissenbach]

As it gets more and more difficult to get tee times on the Executive courses it made me think. Between 466 and 44, if my numbers are correct, there are 22 Executive courses. In the area south of 44 there are currently 5, with 4 more in some stage of development. That is 9 courses in the newer areas serving a population that is approaching, and eventually likely exceeding, the population of the areas between 466 and 44. Do the developers believe that the newer residents are less golf oriented, or do they simply want to retain more land for residential use? Did Harold overbuild Executive golf, or does the current generation have a different planning model? Of course, no matter what the reason, we have no control over the situation, but it does seem that the model has changed. Just curious!

[tophcfa]

Originally Posted by eweissenbach

As it gets more and more difficult to get tee times on the Executive courses it made me think. Between 466 and 44, if my numbers are correct, there are 22 Executive courses. In the area south of 44 there are currently 5, with 4 more in some stage of development. That is 9 courses in the newer areas serving a population that is approaching, and eventually likely exceeding, the population of the areas between 466 and 44. Do the developers believe that the newer residents are less golf oriented, or do they simply want to retain more land for residential use? Did Harold overbuild Executive golf, or does the current generation have a different planning model? Of course, no matter what the reason, we have no control over the situation, but it does seem that the model has changed. Just curious!

Here is my take on your questions/observations. If your numbers aren’t correct, they are extremely close, and definitely close enough for the sake of this discussion. Harold, and Gary, did not overbuild Executive courses. This statement is backed by the difficulty getting t times for a group larger than a single, unless you’re playing in the early morning dew or trying to finish your round at last light. Do the current generation of developers believe that the newer residents are less golf oriented? I don’t think they really care, they want to maximize profits by selling as many new homes as possible (not that there is anything wrong with that). There is no doubt that the business model has changed. Why not try to maximize profits by building way less Executives per new rooftop if people continue to line up to buy new homes as fast as they can be built. It reduces the cost of building the courses, and as stated, frees up more land to jam a whole bunch of homes onto. I agree with you, we have no control over the situation, it is what it is as long as people continue to buy new homes in an area with much less golf per rooftop. Unfortunately for those not living in the newer areas, the golfing overflow spills out towards the north and effects them.

[kansasr]

I would say the real problem are you people between 466A and 44! You have fewer executive holes of golf than we have south of 44 yet almost an equal number of homes! And with the announced new executive courses west of the turnpike, we're going to have to build a wall along 44 to keep the hoards of golfers from coming south.

[Bogie Shooter]

I too was curious.
I looked at open tee time for tomorrow between the times of 7:30AM and 5:00PM. Executive courses only. I stopped counting at 100+ open tee times, for the first 5 executive courses I looked at.
It’s true there are more early and late but there are times available.
To say you cannot get tee times is somewhat misleading………..maybe not in the short window, you might be looking for.

[eweissenbach]

Originally Posted by Bogie Shooter

I too was curious.
I looked at open tee time for tomorrow between the times of 7:30AM and 5:00PM. Executive courses only. I stopped counting at 100+ open tee times, for the first 5 executive courses I looked at.
It’s true there are more early and late but there are times available.
To say you cannot get tee times is somewhat misleading………..maybe not in the short window, you might be looking for.

I didn’t say or imply that I couldn’t get tee times. As a single I can always find a time and a course I prefer. If I want to get a tee time at a reasonable time at a course we like for myself and a friend it is increasingly difficult. I was simply making an observation about obvious difference in course penetration in the newer areas compared to the old. If you have something to add to that please do so.

[eweissenbach]

Originally Posted by kansasr

I would say the real problem are you people between 466A and 44! You have fewer executive holes of golf than we have south of 44 yet almost an equal number of homes! And with the announced new executive courses west of the turnpike, we're going to have to build a wall along 44 to keep the hoards of golfers from coming south.

Ummmm, ok.

[Bogie Shooter]

Originally Posted by eweissenbach

I didn’t say or imply that I couldn’t get tee times. As a single I can always find a time and a course I prefer. If I want to get a tee time at a reasonable time at a course we like for myself and a friend it is increasingly difficult. I was simply making an observation about obvious difference in course penetration in the newer areas compared to the old. If you have something to add to that please do so.

“As it gets more and more difficult to get tee times on the Executive courses“.

[tophcfa]

Originally Posted by kansasr

I would say the real problem are you people between 466A and 44! You have fewer executive holes of golf than we have south of 44 yet almost an equal number of homes! And with the announced new executive courses west of the turnpike, we're going to have to build a wall along 44 to keep the hoards of golfers from coming south.

Delusional

[tophcfa]

Originally Posted by Bogie Shooter

I too was curious.
I looked at open tee time for tomorrow between the times of 7:30AM and 5:00PM. Executive courses only. I stopped counting at 100+ open tee times, for the first 5 executive courses I looked at.
It’s true there are more early and late but there are times available.
To say you cannot get tee times is somewhat misleading………..maybe not in the short window, you might be looking for.

Were you looking for open t times for more than a single golfer at courses below 466a, or are you talking about single openings up near Lopez? Big difference indeed.

[biker1]

Yes, there are a number of tee times available starting at 4:00PM and the first two tee time in the morning. Outside of those windows, not so much.

Originally Posted by Bogie Shooter

I too was curious.
I looked at open tee time for tomorrow between the times of 7:30AM and 5:00PM. Executive courses only. I stopped counting at 100+ open tee times, for the first 5 executive courses I looked at.
It’s true there are more early and late but there are times available.
To say you cannot get tee times is somewhat misleading………..maybe not in the short window, you might be looking for.

[eweissenbach]

Originally Posted by Bogie Shooter

“As it gets more and more difficult to get tee times on the Executive courses“.

Again bogie, that sentence does not equate to being UNABLE to get tee times. Anyone who plays regularly knows that it has become harder to get the tee times you want over the last few years.

[cjrjck]

I have no problem driving to a golf course that isn't close to the house. Either by cart, or if needed, by car. I walk the executive courses often but you can rent a cart at some or at a nearby championship course. So, in that respect, to me at least, it really doesn't matter much where they build them or how many. I am just glad they are building more. If it meant that much to me to be really close to a large number of executive courses, I would live in an area that offered that option.

[phylt]

Originally Posted by kansasr

I would say the real problem are you people between 466A and 44! You have fewer executive holes of golf than we have south of 44 yet almost an equal number of homes! And with the announced new executive courses west of the turnpike, we're going to have to build a wall along 44 to keep the hoards of golfers from coming south.

--------------------

I don't offend easily. But your term of "YOU PEOPLE" hits it for me. One huge issue in the USA is pitting one group against another. Your comment exemplifies that.

And to compound it, your grammar is incorrect.. It's "the real problem IS..... not are.

Oh BTW We ARE of of those "You People".

Double whammy.

[Papa_lecki]

Originally Posted by kansasr

I would say the real problem are you people between 466A and 44! You have fewer executive holes of golf than we have south of 44 yet almost an equal number of homes! And with the announced new executive courses west of the turnpike, we're going to have to build a wall along 44 to keep the hoards of golfers from coming south.

The roads (i.e. 466A and 44) are arbitrary barriers. You can live south of 466a, but get to say Turtle Mound or Sandhill (which are north of 466a) in 2 minutes.

[ThirdOfFive]

Originally Posted by eweissenbach

As it gets more and more difficult to get tee times on the Executive courses it made me think. Between 466 and 44, if my numbers are correct, there are 22 Executive courses. In the area south of 44 there are currently 5, with 4 more in some stage of development. That is 9 courses in the newer areas serving a population that is approaching, and eventually likely exceeding, the population of the areas between 466 and 44. Do the developers believe that the newer residents are less golf oriented, or do they simply want to retain more land for residential use? Did Harold overbuild Executive golf, or does the current generation have a different planning model? Of course, no matter what the reason, we have no control over the situation, but it does seem that the model has changed. Just curious!

I guess it is all in what you are comparing it to. Depending on the course it is indeed more difficult now to get tee times than, say, on a July afternoon when you can pretty much go to any Executive course without reserving a time and get on, but it isn't overwhelmingly difficult now. Same day is pretty much out of the question (unless you call a specific course and ask about cancellations, which means we can get on maybe one call in five) but going on the system and reserving a time one day ahead isn't out of the question, and two or more days in advance is usually pretty easy. As another poster mentioned it depends on the number of folks in the group. Reserving for a foursome is hard unless you're OK with very early morning or just before dusk, but my wife and always look for two openings, and that isn't too bad. Besides we get to meet some pretty interesting folks when we're willing to join two people who have already reserved.

One thing I've wondered: are specific courses reserved for people here on the lifestyle program? We've tried to get on Briarwood a few times since Dec. 1 and found it to be impossible: all booked up. In fairness it has only been a few times and maybe it was just the time we were looking, but Briarwood is reputed to be in gorgeous condition after it's months-long makeover this summer and fall. It would make sense from the Developer's point of view, I suppose. If you're trying to sell the lifestyle to people here on the program, which is what the Lifestyle is all about, really, it makes a lot more sense to give them priority access to Briarwood than, say, to El Diablo, which we played twice last week and found it to be in absolutely atrocious condition.