[djl8412]

The conditions of many of our championship courses in TV are deplorable. If you seek answers from the management you will undoubtedly need Dramamine to combat motion sickness from the spin you'll get. We played Evans Prairie 8 days ago with little grass on the fairways and substandard greens. Yesterday, Cane Garden was a little better but far from what it should be. I feel that since moving to TV 6 years ago the course conditions have steadily declined. When I questioned irrigation policies and noted that very few restrictions take place during snowbird season, I was challenged with excuses and statements that TV irrigation system for our courses was one of the most advanced, state of the art systems anywhere. I'd hate to see the worst! The attitude of many is, of course, "you don't like it, play somewhere else." That's exactly what we do during the winter when TV rates soar and find outside courses in better condition and more affordable and why it's now worth considering in the summer. Just look at the deals of other courses in the area and give them a try.

[justjim]

OP, I am inclined to agree with you that the championship courses were below average condition this winter. I do know we had an extremely dry winter but most of the surrounding courses were in better condition. If I owned and operated the Villages Championship courses, I would be asking some questions of my greens keepers and if I didn't get some answers I would be doing some new hiring.

[mickey100]

Geez, I'm signed up to play Cane this afternoon. Ugh!

[mickey100]

Originally Posted by djl8412

The conditions of many of our championship courses in TV are deplorable. If you seek answers from the management you will undoubtedly need Dramamine to combat motion sickness from the spin you'll get. We played Evans Prairie 8 days ago with little grass on the fairways and substandard greens. Yesterday, Cane Garden was a little better but far from what it should be. I feel that since moving to TV 6 years ago the course conditions have steadily declined. When I questioned irrigation policies and noted that very few restrictions take place during snowbird season, I was challenged with excuses and statements that TV irrigation system for our courses was one of the most advanced, state of the art systems anywhere. I'd hate to see the worst! The attitude of many is, of course, "you don't like it, play somewhere else." That's exactly what we do during the winter when TV rates soar and find outside courses in better condition and more affordable and why it's now worth considering in the summer. Just look at the deals of other courses in the area and give them a try.

Just curious - who did you speak to in Management? I spoke to the head of golf operations, can't remember his name now, and he was quite honest about the conditions. This was a couple of years ago. Ata the time I had complained to him about the conditions at Orange blossom. Apparently he had received many complaints, and I think they went and got a different maintenance company. Since then the conditions there have been much better. Bottom line, if the word gets to the correct person in management, and a large number of people complain, I think it is possible to effect change.

[rubicon]

boy I love these dryed out golf courses the fairways are as hard as a rock. so now i don't have to aim for the cartpaths to get any amount of distance. i can just fire down the middle of the fairway and let that puppy roll for over 100 yeards in order to hit a 240 drive.

[Bogie Shooter]

Originally Posted by djl8412

The conditions of many of our championship courses in TV are deplorable. If you seek answers from the management you will undoubtedly need Dramamine to combat motion sickness from the spin you'll get. We played Evans Prairie 8 days ago with little grass on the fairways and substandard greens. Yesterday, Cane Garden was a little better but far from what it should be. I feel that since moving to TV 6 years ago the course conditions have steadily declined. When I questioned irrigation policies and noted that very few restrictions take place during snowbird season, I was challenged with excuses and statements that TV irrigation system for our courses was one of the most advanced, state of the art systems anywhere. I'd hate to see the worst! The attitude of many is, of course, "you don't like it, play somewhere else." That's exactly what we do during the winter when TV rates soar and find outside courses in better condition and more affordable and why it's now worth considering in the summer. Just look at the deals of other courses in the area and give them a try.

I wonder what the average rainfall per year was the last 6 years?

[djl8412]

Originally Posted by mickey100

Just curious - who did you speak to in Management? I spoke to the head of golf operations, can't remember his name now, and he was quite honest about the conditions. This was a couple of years ago. Ata the time I had complained to him about the conditions at Orange blossom. Apparently he had received many complaints, and I think they went and got a different maintenance company. Since then the conditions there have been much better. Bottom line, if the word gets to the correct person in management, and a large number of people complain, I think it is possible to effect change.

I believe manager of operations changed since a couple of years ago. I had corresponded by email last year because of cart path only restrictions on Mallory when the fairways were in good condition. Golf carts were allowed to use fairways the previous day. The staff in the pro shop stated the restrictions while the starter said there were no such restrictions. Many times when you inquire about the poor course conditions at the pro shop you get answers such as "our pumps were down for 5 months" you feel insulted. If management waits until complaints pour in instead of personal inspections and oversight before changing maintenance people, then that indicates the need for changes in course management.

[davecz1]

I have played several courses south of 466 the last 3 weeks. All in poor to fair shape. Lack of water makes it partially understandable. I have played several courses north and find them in much better shape. IMHO. It appears the older the better.

[Mikeod]

Originally Posted by davecz1

I have played several courses south of 466 the last 3 weeks. All in poor to fair shape. Lack of water makes it partially understandable. I have played several courses north and find them in much better shape. IMHO. It appears the older the better.

That's not a coincidence. The older courses have had time for the bermuda grass roots to get deeper so they show less stress from lack of water and traffic.

[TrudyM]

I just got through arguing with all my husbands childhood friends, that the villages would be better for our retirement than out here in Hawaii (We are visiting family as we do every May) because with the lower cost of living and all the courses available he could play golf as often as he liked. I need to win this debate as they are pushing hard for us to live here and I hate Honolulu.

If course conditions are that bad on the 18's how bad are the more challenging of the exc courses. If one planned to play them to work on ones short game?

How much additional do I need to plan in the budget for off campus golf? And if you can't play in the villages why live there isn't golf the whole point.

[waynet]

Either the golf leadership is ignorant or really doesn't care about the conditions. No one is using Bermuda anymore. It can't stand up to the heat and needs far too much water. There are new strains of grass that are both heat tolerant and need little water to thrive. Yet Bonifay,Evans Praire and the new exec course all use the old grasses. And lets see what they use on the courses they are redoing bet it's the same old stuff. Even the cost of the new grasses is not prohibitive. I believe greens can be replaced for about $300,000 per 18 holes. Gee, maybe there is another reason,they are cheapskates.

[Mikeod]

Originally Posted by TrudyM

I just got through arguing with all my husbands childhood friends, that the villages would be better for our retirement than out here in Hawaii (We are visiting family as we do every May) because with the lower cost of living and all the courses available he could play golf as often as he liked. I need to win this debate as they are pushing hard for us to live here and I hate Honolulu.

If course conditions are that bad on the 18's how bad are the more challenging of the exc courses. If one planned to play them to work on ones short game?

How much additional do I need to plan in the budget for off campus golf? And if you can't play in the villages why live there isn't golf the whole point.

To answer your last question first, golf is not the whole point of TV. Golf is big here, but there are so many other things to do as well.

We have experienced unusual winters the last few years. First, there was a combination of colder than normal fall/winter periods when we also had lower than normal rainfall. That, combined with the increased play during the high season, had a negative effect on the courses. The last winter was milder, but there was still lower rainfall than normal. Other, older, courses outside TV seem to have weathered the situation better. Some of those courses are not as restricted with water use as TV is. Some of those courses also have lower fees than TV both winter and summer. So you have a choice. Play within TV which is more convenient, or outside TV which may be less expensive and may be in better condition at times.

In questioning the costs of the championship courses, I was informed the maintenance costs here are significantly higher than outside TV mostly because of the high volume of play they get all year round. As posted above, the older courses within TV tend to be in better condition because the turf has had more time to mature.

IMO, complaints about conditions occur seasonally. This is the time when we are transitioning from the overseed to the regular bermuda. One way to do this is to cut the grass shorter than normal and reduce watering. This kills any remnants of the overseed. Follow that with aeration, fertilization, and water to stimulate the bermuda. During this phase, the course will be hard, thin, and unattractive. When completed, it will be much improved. So I don't see as many complaints during the summer, especially if we get normal rainfall.

[waynet]

Did not mean Bermuda grass meant no one uses bent grass anymore. Many are changing to Ultra Dwarf Bermuda grass. Not the Villages though. They must know something no one else knows.

[davecz1]

Originally Posted by TrudyM

I just got through arguing with all my husbands childhood friends, that the villages would be better for our retirement than out here in Hawaii (We are visiting family as we do every May) because with the lower cost of living and all the courses available he could play golf as often as he liked. I need to win this debate as they are pushing hard for us to live here and I hate Honolulu.

If course conditions are that bad on the 18's how bad are the more challenging of the exc courses. If one planned to play them to work on ones short game?

How much additional do I need to plan in the budget for off campus golf? And if you can't play in the villages why live there isn't golf the whole point.

Basically every course off campus are cheaper. Most I have played are in better shape. Throw in a gallon of gas to get there and you still come out better off campus. Again, IMHO. That being said I do love the execs for fun.

[Mikeod]

Originally Posted by waynet

Did not mean Bermuda grass meant no one uses bent grass anymore. Many are changing to Ultra Dwarf Bermuda grass. Not the Villages though. They must know something no one else knows.

There is no bent grass in TV. The fairways and greens are bermuda hybrids. Bent grass wouldn't require overseed in the winter.