[MarkD1981]

Originally Posted by Chris Wagner

Hi all!

New to this forum, and a few years away from a hopeful move to TV. I am addicted to golf. Played for 30+ years, and a mid single digit golfer. I have little to no interest in the executive courses (maybe play here or there with my wife if she wanted to). Really only interested in the championship courses. And preferably early times with a group of better golfers. Forgetting about finding other players that I enjoy playing with, how realistic is it to get early times on the championship courses numerous times a week? I would absolutely have the 12 month enhancement membership. Not expecting first tee time, but do like playing as early as possible. Is it realistic to get early times nearly all the time?

As a single, you will almost always find an early tee time. The less flexible you are as far as which course, the lower your odds. But, you will have no idea of the skill level of your playing partners. You will know male/female.

I arrived 5 years ago as a below 10 handicap and swore I would not play executive courses. Friends new to golf moved here so I gave Executive a try. Way more fun (and free!) than I expected. Great practice and you can usually play 9-holes in 90 minutes or so, Definitely easy to get a spot as a single year round.

[Chris Wagner]

Originally Posted by golfing eagles

I'm going to agree about 75%.

Like you, I was a member of a private club for over 30 years---great layout, immaculate conditions, greens ran about 12----for the 6 months it wasn't snowing. I also was lucky to grow up on Bethpage Black and got to play Winged Foot, Baltusrol, Pine Valley, Westchester CC, Shinnecock, Pinehurst #2, Pebble, Spyglass, Torrey Pines, Castle Pines, Broadmoor, and in Florida Doral, PGA National, Copperhead, Sawgrass and Bay Hill to name a few, so I am familiar with good layouts and great conditions. Most courses in Florida including The Villages are not in that class.

However, the courses here are not terrible, I've played on many courses that are much worse. In general, Florida courses are flat, treeless and in comparison to the above somewhat boring. The only defense is sand and water, of which we have plenty. And yes, Tierra is an exception. But the trade off is the convenience of 14 courses just a cart ride away. I live on one and have 6 more within 18 minutes by cart. Four more are within 26 minutes. And while there are many that whine about the cost of greens fees, they really are pretty reasonable, and tens of thousands cheaper than a private club. The initiation bond at Seminole is now up to $250,000!

I've also aged out of getting a thrill from extremely difficult courses. Fifty years ago when I was a +1, I enjoyed playing Bethpage from the tips. Now, I couldn't even walk to course (which is a shame since the Ryder Cup is there this year, and I still know every inch of that course having played it about 250 times). Now, multiple injuries and spine surgery later I'm an 11 and rarely play anything longer than the blues. But it's still golf, it's still fun, and still a challenge. Plus, from the white or blue tees I still can make 2 or 3 dozen eagles/year---something I can no longer do on a 560 yd par 5. (unless holing out from 100)

Great insight. I live about 20 minutes from Bethpage. Played black this past Thursday. Construction for the Ryder cup is in full swing. Many of the stands and vip booths are going up. It was definitely in great shape.

I don’t need difficult. Definitley don’t need Black. But do want at least nice and more than a pitch and putt. I watched a flyover of one championship course, not sure which one it was. There was lots of fairway bunkers but saw very very few geeenside bunkers which was a little concerning.

[golfing eagles]

Originally Posted by Chris Wagner

Great insight. I live about 20 minutes from Bethpage. Played black this past Thursday. Construction for the Ryder cup is in full swing. Many of the stands and vip booths are going up. It was definitely in great shape.

I don’t need difficult. Definitley don’t need Black. But do want at least nice and more than a pitch and putt. I watched a flyover of one championship course, not sure which one it was. There was lots of fairway bunkers but saw very very few geeenside bunkers which was a little concerning.

I lived about 20 minutes away as well (East Meadow), my grandmother lived 1 mile away, but that was 45 years ago.
The courses here are hardly pitch and putt, Fox Run to Stirrup Cup at Glenview is 7,145 from the black tees--it was actually originally designed to attract a pro tournament, even to the point of having townhouses behind the 18th green for housing players, but that never materialized. The LPGA had a tournament at Tierra del Sol some years ago.
As far as greenside bunkers go, it varies by course, but my opinion is that many are quite large and depending on the pin position can be very much in play. They can also be difficult depending on the number of unraked footprints . If you like lots of sand, I played Tobacco Road in North Carolina last week---it will fix anyone's desire for sand for at least 2 months.
I think the main drawback of the courses here is their condition, which varies with the seasons as well as rainfall. However, the last 12 months has seen a considerable improvement on many courses despite a period of drought. They also renovate courses on a regular basis. I don't play executive courses (at least not yet), but I understand those conditions have improved as well. Remember, the championship courses get over 1 million rounds/year and the execs over 2 million, so maintenance is a challenge, especially considering many "golfers" don't know how to pick up a rake and think the sand bottle is a urinal.

[ltcdfancher]

Originally Posted by golfing eagles

Remember, the championship courses get over 1 million rounds/year and the execs over 2 million, so maintenance is a challenge, especially considering many "golfers" don't know how to pick up a rake and think the sand bottle is a urinal.

Not to mention the many that forgot their divot repair tool when dropping a high lofted shot onto a saturated green after one of our afternoon thunderstorms!

[golfing eagles]

Originally Posted by ltcdfancher

Not to mention the many that forgot their divot repair tool when dropping a high lofted shot onto a saturated green after one of our afternoon thunderstorms!

I assume you are referring to those that actually have a divot tool and know how to use it (I'm guessing about 30%)

[BrianL99]

Originally Posted by Chris Wagner

There was lots of fairway bunkers but saw very very few geeenside bunkers which was a little concerning.

Originally Posted by golfing eagles

The LPGA had a tournament at Tierra del Sol some years ago.
As far as greenside bunkers go, it varies by course, but my opinion is that many are quite large and depending on the pin position can be very much in play. They can also be difficult depending on the number of unraked footprints . If you like lots of sand, I played Tobacco Road in North Carolina last week---it will fix anyone's desire for sand for at least 2 months.

There's no shortage of green side bunkers, on the TV courses I play regularly. Surely Palmer Legends nor Mallory Hill have no shortage.

In my opinion, one of the significant flaws of course design in TV, are bunkers ... too many of them. I think they should have made use more "waste areas". World Woods in Brooksville had 2 courses in the Top 100 in the USA. Pine Barrens (Top 50) had NO bunkers. All sand areas on the course, were considered "waste areas".

Why fewer bunkers?

Simple.

1. Bunkers require more expensive and frequent maintenance, than anything other than Greens.

2. Bunkers require more conscientious player involvement and consideration, which is severely lacking in TV (& most resort courses).

3. Banker faces (particularly on Palmer) are "too steep". I played with a group once, where we couldn't get a guy out of a Green side bunker on Laurel Valley (right front, 4th Green). It eventually took 6 guys to roll him out.


& before someone says I just don't like bunkers ... I play better from the sand, than from the rough or fringe.

[Chris Wagner]

Originally Posted by BrianL99

There's no shortage of green side bunkers, on the TV courses I play regularly. Surely Palmer Legends nor Mallory Hill have no shortage.

In my opinion, one of the significant flaws of course design in TV, are bunkers ... too many of them. I think they should have made use more "waste areas". World Woods in Brooksville had 2 courses in the Top 100 in the USA. Pine Barrens (Top 50) had NO bunkers. All sand areas on the course, were considered "waste areas".

Why fewer bunkers?

Simple.

1. Bunkers require more expensive and frequent maintenance, than anything other than Greens.

2. Bunkers require more conscientious player involvement and consideration, which is severely lacking in TV (& most resort courses).

3. Banker faces (particularly on Palmer) are "too steep". I played with a group once, where we couldn't get a guy out of a Green side bunker on Laurel Valley (right front, 4th Green). It eventually took 6 guys to roll him out.


& before someone says I just don't like bunkers ... I play better from the sand, than from the rough or fringe.

I certainly understand the merits of fewer bunkers. But in the one flyover I watched there were lots of bunkers but all fairways. I think there were like two green side bunkers on the front. I don’t love bunkers, sand isn’t my strength, but I also do want to be penalized somewhat if I miss the green. At least more so than resort course rough (aka not rough) on what I presume are fairly slow greens.

I certainly don’t expect the upkeep or green speed of my 20k a year private club. But I also don’t want to be entirely disappointed either as golf will be a major part of my retirement.

[BrianL99]

Originally Posted by Chris Wagner

I certainly understand the merits of fewer bunkers. But in the one flyover I watched there were lots of bunkers but all fairways. I think there were like two green side bunkers on the front. I don’t love bunkers, sand isn’t my strength, but I also do want to be penalized somewhat if I miss the green. At least more so than resort course rough (aka not rough) on what I presume are fairly slow greens.

I certainly don’t expect the upkeep or green speed of my 20k a year private club. But I also don’t want to be entirely disappointed either as golf will be a major part of my retirement.

I can't think of a single green in TV, that doesn't have at least 1 bunker around the green.

Most greens in TV, you can roll it or bounce it up there. If that wasn't the case, the natives would rebel.

Holed it out of the bunker on 17 today. I love bunkers!

[Papa_lecki]

You also can call the pro shop the night before to get a tee time between 7AM and 730.

[golfing eagles]

Originally Posted by Papa_lecki

You also can call the pro shop the night before to get a tee time between 7AM and 730.

But that’s only for 9 holes

[golfing eagles]

Originally Posted by BrianL99

I can't think of a single green in TV, that doesn't have at least 1 bunker around the green.

Most greens in TV, you can roll it or bounce it up there. If that wasn't the case, the natives would rebel.

Holed it out of the bunker on 17 today. I love bunkers!

The only one that comes to mind is #2 Fort Walton

[MarkD1981]

Originally Posted by BrianL99

There's no shortage of green side bunkers, on the TV courses I play regularly. Surely Palmer Legends nor Mallory Hill have no shortage.

In my opinion, one of the significant flaws of course design in TV, are bunkers ... too many of them. I think they should have made use more "waste areas". World Woods in Brooksville had 2 courses in the Top 100 in the USA. Pine Barrens (Top 50) had NO bunkers. All sand areas on the course, were considered "waste areas".

Why fewer bunkers?

Simple.

1. Bunkers require more expensive and frequent maintenance, than anything other than Greens.

2. Bunkers require more conscientious player involvement and consideration, which is severely lacking in TV (& most resort courses).

3. Banker faces (particularly on Palmer) are "too steep". I played with a group once, where we couldn't get a guy out of a Green side bunker on Laurel Valley (right front, 4th Green). It eventually took 6 guys to roll him out.


& before someone says I just don't like bunkers ... I play better from the sand, than from the rough or fringe.

Maybe all the fairway bunkers help protect the homes lining the courses. I have hit many stray shots stopped by a bunker that would have otherwise ended up in someone’s yard (at best).

[Bogie Shooter]

Originally Posted by Chris Wagner

I certainly understand the merits of fewer bunkers. But in the one flyover I watched there were lots of bunkers but all fairways. I think there were like two green side bunkers on the front. I don’t love bunkers, sand isn’t my strength, but I also do want to be penalized somewhat if I miss the green. At least more so than resort course rough (aka not rough) on what I presume are fairly slow greens.

I certainly don’t expect the upkeep or green speed of my 20k a year private club. But I also don’t want to be entirely disappointed either as golf will be a major part of my retirement.

You probably should find another 20k club for your retirement. I see an unhappy camper in the Villages.

[Snakster66]

I'm reading a lot of jaded cynisism in some of these replies. I moved down here last September from PA and I am absolutely enjoying the championship courses down here. Conditions have been overall very good. each course has just enough character. I play as a single and I don't do the request system. I just go online 3 days in advance when the tee times open up. I could have early morning any day year round. I typically try to join a twosome or a threesome just so I'm not standing around waiting a lot (especially on the second nine). I did get stuck by myself on Saturday at Tierra del sol (the 2-some must've canceled). That was an 8:30 tee time. But the groups of women in front of me were moving at a good clip and it wasn't horrible (even spectated a couple birdie putts...which I applauded from the fairway)

I think it's a bit unfair for some people to rattle off courses they played that are among the best IN THE WORLD, and then critisize TV for not being at that level. What I know is that I live right next to Palmer (which I love) and the practice facilities that go with it and at least a half dozen other championship courses within 15-20 minute golf cart ride that are all fun to play. If I want to stretch that to 30 minutes, you can throw in 5 more. Even though I still work, I'm golfing 4 times a week. Typically Palmer on Sunday and Tuesday; an after work men's group I found on Thursdays (usually courses below 466A); and I travel to a different course every Saturday. Index is now bouncing between 7.5 - 8. Wouldn't be near that low back in PA. If you make it down, shoot me a message. I love playing early (that 8:30 mentioned above is late for me).

[Chris Wagner]

Originally Posted by BrianL99

I can't think of a single green in TV, that doesn't have at least 1 bunker around the green.

Most greens in TV, you can roll it or bounce it up there. If that wasn't the case, the natives would rebel.

Holed it out of the bunker on 17 today. I love bunkers!

I only watched one flyover video but it was this one, front at Southern Oaks. Neither 5 nor 6 have greenside bunkers. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OR0KjwHMqaw

Congrats on the hole out!