[Polar Bear]

Some of you are getting a bit self righteous in my opinion. Most of us play bad lies. We play in bad conditions. We take every penalty stroke we earn. That's called playing by USGA rules. Watching your straight uphill putt stop two inches short of the cup and then start rolling back to you is not playing by the rules.

[billethkid]

Originally Posted by asianthree

If all pin placements were in the perfect place where would be the challenge.

Please keep in mind many of us the challenge is being able to be out there.

Just how many strokes could possibly be attributed to bad pin placement.

Sorta related. How many can honestly say playing the courses with the "big" holes has improved their game/score?

Eliminating all water and underbrush and bushes and woods would help a lot more.

[outlaw]

Bad and inexperienced golfers don't get it. Many are out there to visit and just eat up time. They have little interest in sport or competition. To them you could mow the greens once a week and they would say "who cares, it's the same for everyone". You are wasting your time trying to convince them it's more than just walking around and socializing. That's why you have groups that seem to have to discuss where they are going to eat on the ninth green while a group is waiting to tee off. That's why the bunkers look like crap most of the time; why there are way too many unrepaired pitch marks on the greens. That's why you have golfers that don't care how slow they are playing, and really don't care who they are inconveniencing. Not in TV, of course; other places.

[dbussone]

Originally Posted by billethkid

Please keep in mind many of us the challenge is being able to be out there.



Just how many strokes could possibly be attributed to bad pin placement.



Sorta related. How many can honestly say playing the courses with the "big" holes has improved their game/score?



Eliminating all water and underbrush and bushes and woods would help a lot more.

BTK - I would add sand to your list as well.

[JohnFromMaine]

Originally Posted by Polar Bear

Some of you are getting a bit self righteous in my opinion. Most of us play bad lies. We play in bad conditions. We take every penalty stroke we earn. That's called playing by USGA rules. Watching your straight uphill putt stop two inches short of the cup and then start rolling back to you is not playing by the rules.

Couldn't have said it better.

[kcrazorbackfan]

Originally Posted by outlaw

Bad and inexperienced golfers don't get it. Many are out there to visit and just eat up time. They have little interest in sport or competition. To them you could mow the greens once a week and they would say "who cares, it's the same for everyone". You are wasting your time trying to convince them it's more than just walking around and socializing. That's why you have groups that seem to have to discuss where they are going to eat on the ninth green while a group is waiting to tee off. That's why the bunkers look like crap most of the time; why there are way too many unrepaired pitch marks on the greens. That's why you have golfers that don't care how slow they are playing, and really don't care who they are inconveniencing. Not in TV, of course; other places.

How right you are....

[tomwed]

1] Hit the ball to the center of the green and 2 putt.
2] If you are not that good make your target in between the pin and the furthest hazard to give yourself a little wiggle room unless the hazard is in the front. Hit an extra club if it's in the front.
3] If you care that much about score, practice and play from the back tees on a championship course.

[kcrazorbackfan]

Played TDS today; some (a lot) of the front and back pin placements were about 2 good steps (6') from the fringe; greens were in REALLY good shape other than being a little slow.

[Dr Winston O Boogie jr]

Originally Posted by Polar Bear

Some of you are getting a bit self righteous in my opinion. Most of us play bad lies. We play in bad conditions. We take every penalty stroke we earn. That's called playing by USGA rules. Watching your straight uphill putt stop two inches short of the cup and then start rolling back to you is not playing by the rules.

I didn't intend to get self righteous. I was only explaining my feelings when I play.

That's the great thing about golf. Everyone can enjoy it in their own way. If you just want to go and knock the ball around a pasture, that's fine by me. If you want to compete at the highest level, that's fine as well. There's room for everyone in this great game.

By the way, I've played US Open courses where if you didn't get on the right side of the hole you had almost no chance of keeping the ball on the green when you putt.I've also played tour courses where if you didn't get your ball to the hole it would come back to your feet. No one likes it, but sometimes that's what you run into. I wouldn't allow myself to get that upset over it. It's not worth it. In tournament golf where those kind of things can make a difference between making a cut or making a check, it can be extremely frustrating, but in casual rounds of golf, I try not to do that to myself.

[Polar Bear]

Originally Posted by Dr Winston O Boogie jr

...I've played US Open courses where if you didn't get on the right side of the hole you had almost no chance of keeping the ball on the green when you putt.I've also played tour courses where if you didn't get your ball to the hole it would come back to your feet.

I don't doubt you for a second, but I'm fairly certain the experiences you describe were not at a pro tour event, or likely any USGA sanctioned event. And it's not because of any doubt about your skills .



I'm assuming of course when you say "didn't get your ball to the hole", you mean it got pretty close to the hole. If it never got within a few feet of the whole, that's a different story altogether. But if did get close to the hole and then rolled back to your feet, it did not meet the USGA requirements for pin placement. It's that simple.



One area where I totally agree with you...I would never get upset about a pin placement here in TV. It's simply not worth it. Maybe bring it to the-powers-that-be's attention if it happened often enough just to see if they could improve education of the guys who place pins. But get upset? Nahhh.

[villages07]

I played Escambia yesterday, and, yes the pin placements were still in challenging positions. However, as an aside, I must say the greens were in absolutely perfect condition...just about the best I have ever seen in TV. Kudos to whomever does the maintenance down there.

[bagboy]

Originally Posted by Dr Winston O Boogie jr

I didn't intend to get self righteous. I was only explaining my feelings when I play.

That's the great thing about golf. Everyone can enjoy it in their own way. If you just want to go and knock the ball around a pasture, that's fine by me. If you want to compete at the highest level, that's fine as well. There's room for everyone in this great game.

By the way, I've played US Open courses where if you didn't get on the right side of the hole you had almost no chance of keeping the ball on the green when you putt.I've also played tour courses where if you didn't get your ball to the hole it would come back to your feet. No one likes it, but sometimes that's what you run into. I wouldn't allow myself to get that upset over it. It's not worth it. In tournament golf where those kind of things can make a difference between making a cut or making a check, it can be extremely frustrating, but in casual rounds of golf, I try not to do that to myself.

For anyone that doubts your experience and descriptions of balls rolling off the green, they should view footage of previous US OPENS held at Pinehurst #2. And yes, those tournaments are USGA sanctioned.

[Polar Bear]

Originally Posted by bagboy

For anyone that doubts your experience and descriptions of balls rolling off the green, they should view footage of previous US OPENS held at Pinehurst #2. And yes, those tournaments are USGA sanctioned.

I do not question the speed of US Open greens. That is not the same as a pin placement on a slope where the ball is not able to stop within a couple feet of the hole. Apples and oranges.

Even US Open ultra-lightening-fast greens comply with USGA pin placement requirements.

[mudpac]

Suck it up ....
Have then put some kleenex at the green !!

[Jacksn]

Pin positions at Briarwood were also cut close to edge of greens and on awkward slopes and crests of spines running thru the greens on Saturday 3/26. USGA recommends pins be cut a minimum of 10 feet from edge of greens and common sense should prevail on the locations.