[Rich Iwaszko]

Just so you know, the reason a golf course can be called a Championship Golf course is
only because it is a Par 72. There is no other reasons, great courses that are Par 70,71,69,
are not Championship Golf Courses. They may hold championships there but the course is not a Championship course. It is by definition.

That is why courses stretched out Par 3's into Par 4 and Par 4's into Par 5's to reach a 72 par. It was important to marketing. Not so much nowadays. But still used.

Originally Posted by Rich Iwaszko

Actually, with a course rating that is too high, the handicaps are deflated and thats why, as writers have noted, they don't travel well. With a lower rating handicaps will go up but would be truer. Downside is you won't be able to brag you are a 5 handicap when your actually a 9.

Slope ratings on golf courses won't make up for the fact that your course rating is too high. It takes a difference of 10 points on a course slope to move the needle by 1 stroke
You are again slaughtered. Sorry, don't bet outside the bubble...........

[golfing eagles]

Originally Posted by Rich Iwaszko

Actually, with a course rating that is too high, the handicaps are deflated and thats why, as writers have noted, they don't travel well. With a lower rating handicaps will go up but would be truer. Downside is you won't be able to brag you are a 5 handicap when your actually a 9.

Slope ratings on golf courses won't make up for the fact that your course rating is too high. It takes a difference of 10 points on a course slope to move the needle by 1 stroke
You are again slaughtered. Sorry, don't bet outside the bubble...........

OK, let's try this again. Say you shot 80 exactly on the best 8 of your last 20 rounds on a course in TV with a rating of 67. Your index will be about 12.5-13. Now, if as you suggest, they drop the rating to 61. Your index is now18.5-19. Please explain how that is a deflated handicap. Now, you might make the case that a 5 handicap from a course with too high a rating is not as skilled as a golfer from a course with a "true" rating, but then you would have to look at course ratings everywhere. Are they all too high???

[Rich Iwaszko]

The course you shot 80 on, has too high a rating, so your current handicap is deflated. If you play on a properly rated course that has the same rating as yours. you will be lucky to break 90. As other writers noted.

If the rating was correct, you would be closer to an 18 handicap. Your 90 would have a better chance to win.

No, the one you shot 80 on is. The 5 on too high a rating will be fodder.

Some courses are rated too high and some rated too low...tough to tell...... its best to know your own before you bet the house on it.

Lastly, how often are courses rated...........?....they are rated at the bequest of the owners of the course.........who may decide what's best in their best interest

The point is you are currently delfated

Originally Posted by golfing eagles

OK, let's try this again. Say you shot 80 exactly on the best 8 of your last 20 rounds on a course in TV with a rating of 67. Your index will be about 12.5-13. Now, if as you suggest, they drop the rating to 61. Your index is now18.5-19. Please explain how that is a deflated handicap. Now, you might make the case that a 5 handicap from a course with too high a rating is not as skilled as a golfer from a course with a "true" rating, but then you would have to look at course ratings everywhere. Are they all too high???

[golfing eagles]

Originally Posted by Rich Iwaszko

The course you shot 80 on, has too high a rating, so your current handicap is deflated. If you play on a properly rated course that has the same rating as yours. you will be lucky to break 90. As other writers noted.

If the rating was correct, you would be closer to an 18 handicap. Your 90 would have a better chance to win.

No, the one you shot 80 on is. The 5 on too high a rating will be fodder.

Some courses are rated too high and some rated too low...tough to tell...... its best to know your own before you bet the house on it.

Lastly, how often are courses rated...........?....they are rated at the bequest of the owners of the course.........who may decide what's best in their best interest

The point is you are currently delfated

We're saying the same thing, we just define inflated and deflated differently in this context

[Wilson02852]

Had a wonderful time yesterday on an imaginary golf course where I shot 2 under. Could have been a 90 on a real course with real golfers.

[Rich Iwaszko]

Nice Round!!

[BrianL99]

Originally Posted by Rich Iwaszko

I agree that the ratings are 4-6 shots too high.......the result being the handicaps here don't travel well............

That's ridiculous. The Rating at GV from the White Tees on Tally Ho/Fox Run is 65.3. Which means you need to shoot 7 Under Par to be "Scratch". Scratch is predicated on making Pars. Which means 36 Shots at GV are used to Putt. Leaving you only 29 shots to reach 18 Greens. Take out the Par 3's. You now have 25 Shots to reach 14 Greens (including Par 5's). You think the Rating should be 4-6 strokes lower? 20 Shots to reach 14 Greens (including 4 part 5's)? Good luck with that.

TV handicaps travel perfectly fine, if you play a golf course with similar length. If you play the "White Tees" at TV (5500 yards) & then go play El Campeon from the White Tees, you're going to be in trouble. EC plays about 6300 yards, at a Rating of over 71 from the White Tees.

Originally Posted by Rich Iwaszko

Once submitted to the State Golf Association is when it becomes political. They compare different course ratings and the courses they hold in high esteem will stay with a higher rating even though a team determined otherwise. Sad fact.

I had a course rated in Massachusetts, very high, but when it came back it was lowered. I was told it was lowered because it would be rated harder than The Country Club in Brookline. Politics at the State level.

That's mostly nonsense. There are plenty of courses in MA, rated harder than TCC. Also, the TCC layout changes for different tournaments. The US Am played a significantly different course than was played at the US Open.

Originally Posted by Rich Iwaszko

With the length of the courses in TV, with the very wide fairways, with the bunkers in the fairway really out of play, with the green side bunkers being minimal and not severe, and the greens being fairly flat with little or no slopes and the green speed usually being medium, the course should be rated lower. Again I would say 4-5 shots.

Here's a link to every course rating in the US. See how many 5500 yard courses you can find, with Ratings 4-5 shots lower than TV Ratings. https://ncrdb.usga.org/

[Rich Iwaszko]

I can shoot 73-75 from the Blues in TV, most every day. I get home to a real golf course, I'm lucky if break 80 once in a while.
From the mouth of babes............exactly my point.......

[justjim]

Originally Posted by TomSpasm

Based on my experiences with going outside the bubble with Villages handicaps, they don't hold up in the outside world. If you go to courses like Mission Inn, Black Bear, or CC of Mount Dora, you are not going to score like you can here.

With regard to the complaint that shooting par from the white tees still makes you an 8 handicap, that's because of the lack of length. There has to be a way to differentiate a guy who shoots 72 from 5600 yards from one who shoots 72 from 7000 yards.

Full Disclosure, I'm a 9.4 handicap index, historically play from the blues but they're getting too long for me to have fun, playing more whites now.

Golf, especially at our age, should be fun. To play a game that isn’t fun doesn’t make any sense to me. If you play an executive course and it’s par 29 and you shoot 31 or 32 you are having fun. If you never played golf before retiring and you shoot 37 or 38 you are still having fun. If you shoot 27 on the same course you are ecstatic! At my age I could care less about having an official handicap.

[Rich Iwaszko]

Explanations:

From the White Tees, a scratch player will reach all par 5's in 2 putting them at 4 under par. At leads 4 of the par 4's will be reachable from the tee, putting them at 8 under par. Bonus birdies will be on par 3 holes. Its doable.

My point on course ratings is that they are political as well as numerical.

If you are a 3-5 at TV, you will not shoot that off TV as you mentioned.

[dewilson58]

Originally Posted by Rich Iwaszko

Explanations:

From the White Tees, a scratch player will reach all par 5's in 2 putting them at 4 under par. At leads 4 of the par 4's will be reachable from the tee, putting them at 8 under par. Bonus birdies will be on par 3 holes. Its doable.

My point on course ratings is that they are political as well as numerical.

If you are a 3-5 at TV, you will not shoot that off TV as you mentioned.

I agree with you................TV courses are very easy compared to other courses across the USA.
As mentioned, no rough, no trees, fairway sand traps are not located, etc.

I do disagree on you part about reachable par fours...........I don't think the par fours are as reachable.
A few would be 285 yards, most over 300.
But that does not impact your statement on the ease of TV.

[Marsha11]

I dont think you won't always be trusted to have a number for you . You must

[Rich Iwaszko]

thanks, TV should be easy so this age group can have fun, which is the main purpose..........

[justjim]

Originally Posted by CTKID

Florida State Golf Association announced:

Starting in 2024, The World Handicap System™ has approved lowering the minimum length for a tee to be issued a Course Rating and Slope Rating to 1,500 yards for 18 holes or 750 yards for 9 holes.

This will allow our Executive Course rounds to be entered into the handicap system.

Anyone know if our Executive Courses will be rated? Thanks.

OP, you ask a good question. As I understand, in general, executive courses are managed by the Developer but maintained with residents money. There could be cost associated with rating all of the 40 plus executive courses. The cost benefit might be questionable. Most golfers play the executive courses for fun as opposed to competition. There are a few exceptions, however, using handicaps would somewhat complicate the scoring process. It could be done but is it really worth it?
As of 2020, according to google, the average age in The Villages is 72.2. The age of golfers playing the executive courses would be much higher than those golfers playing the championship courses. Not to mention the skill level and the many beginner golfers on the executive courses. Well, you can see where I’m going with the cost benefit. If there would be no cost with rating the executive courses, then no harm done with money that could be spent on maintaining the quality of the executive courses. As you know, so many ball marks and sand traps are not properly taken care of by golfers on the courses of The villages. Perhaps some money could be spent to emphasize good golf etiquette especially at the executive courses. Free divot tools at all courses during the month of January with a sign to please fix ball marks on greens as an example. Just a thought.

[Joeint]

The executive courses have ratings https://ncrdb.usga.org/