[manaboutown]

F&F certainly has a lot of costly overhead and charges very high fees for a little hand holding and guidance. And happy Hours!!! Oh boy! I wonder what their historic investment track record has actually been. Very few beat the market averages and usually not for long. There are only a handful of exceptions. Warren Buffett, Charlie Munger, Peter Lynch and Bill Miller come to mind.

Where are F&F's customers' yachts?

[ChrisTee]

Originally Posted by manaboutown

F&F certainly has a lot of costly overhead and charges very high fees for a little hand holding and guidance. And happy Hours!!! Oh boy! I wonder what their historic investment track record has actually been. Very few beat the market averages and usually not for long. There are only a handful of exceptions. Warren Buffett, Charlie Munger, Peter Lynch and Bill Miller come to mind.

Where are F&F's customers' yachts?

You're spot on. The science is that actively managed funds rarely outperform index funds. For those new to investing, that means that a human will almost NEVER do a better job with a mutual fund than a basic index fund will achieve.

"If you're investing for the long term, passive funds of all kinds almost always give higher returns. Over a 20-year period, about 90% index funds tracking companies of all sizes outperformed their active counterparts." - Forbes

Make more $$!
Now you know that you can go to Vanguard.com, Fidelity etc. and have the BEST chance of getting the HIGHEST return on your $ - for ALOT less than a stealer FA. Vanguard's index mutual funds cost about .18% ------ yes, way less than a percent/yr. Vanguard and Fidelity charge much much less than any FAs Im aware of... and both Vanguard and Fidelity have dedicated, intelligent people to walk you through the process if you'd like help.

Of course if you want lower than average returns on your money AND you want to pay big $$ to a FA, you're free to do that. We're talking thousands ++ per year.

[baileysdad]

We have been with F&F since 2008. Have seen the the good. the bad and the ugly. They have done what we pay them to do...make us money!

[manaboutown]

I just found a fascinating website which shows how the S&P 500 performed from year X to year Y with dividends reinvested, not adjusted for taxes, but factoring in inflation. S&P 500 Returns since 2008

How have anyone's results compared?

"If you invested $100 in the S&P 500 at the beginning of 2008, you would have about $366.22 at the end of 2022, assuming you reinvested all dividends. This is a return on investment of 266.22%, or 9.15% per year.

This lump-sum investment beats inflation during this period for an inflation-adjusted return of about 164.85% cumulatively, or 6.79% per year."

Also, Charles D. Ellis on index funds vs. actively managed funds: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YYjvA7U__mk

[Stu from NYC]

Originally Posted by baileysdad

We have been with F&F since 2008. Have seen the the good. the bad and the ugly. They have done what we pay them to do...make us money!

But have they done better than buying a good diversified package of well rated no load mutual funds and reinvesting the dividends?

[Babubhat]

Originally Posted by Stu from NYC

But have they done better than buying a good diversified package of well rated no load mutual funds and reinvesting the dividends?

Positive responses are dubious at best. Risk adjusted returns matter. Most clients have no idea what that number is. A monkey with a dart would have made good money during the bull run.

Stick with low costs etf. Advisors are expensive hand holders

[ChrisTee]

Babbuhat, Manaboutown and Stu from NYC have it right. The folks here who say they like their financial advisor FAs don't know or don't share their results with us - why? Risk adjusted returns matter - they're very important. As others have stated here - a monkey can make money in a good market. Focus on your risk adjusted returns and know how your investments did compared to the market in general, and compared to a diversified portfolio of no load index funds.

[ChrisTee]

Originally Posted by baileysdad

We have been with F&F since 2008. Have seen the the good. the bad and the ugly. They have done what we pay them to do...make us money!

Well, how'd that compare to just putting your money in a few diversified index funds at Vanguard or Fidelity? It was pretty darn easy to make money during that time period.

Perhaps you would have made more - much more if you simply put your funds into a small, diversified mix of a no-load index mutual funds in 2008.

[Babubhat]

Would love to see how they justify any fee in this market. Perhaps lost you less money than an index?

[retiredguy123]

The idea of paying someone a percentage of my assets to buy and sell stocks does not make sense to me. Never has, never will.

[manaboutown]

Originally Posted by retiredguy123

The idea of paying someone a percentage of my assets to buy and sell stocks does not make sense to me. Never has, never will.

They appear to sell annuities, a particularly high commission product, judging from the complaints of record FINRA shows resolved one way or the other.

They also sell life insurance; indeed, for the most part their employment histories originated in the insurance industry. Of course these are high commission, low yield products.

Noteworthy to me is that their formal post high school education is not posted as part of their CVs on the F&F website. Enquiring minds want to know! Oh well...

[Stu from NYC]

Originally Posted by manaboutown

They appear to sell annuities, a particularly high commission product, judging from the complaints of record FINRA shows resolved one way or the other.

They also sell life insurance; indeed, for the most part their employment histories originated in the insurance industry. Of course these are high commission, low yield products.

Noteworthy to me is that their formal post high school education is not posted as part of their CVs on the F&F website. Enquiring minds want to know! Oh well...

Amazing how some of these so called financial advisors do not bother to advertise their qualifications for telling others how to invest their life savings. One was a former math teacher who had enough of teaching and thought he could do better as an advisor.

Some have even said they use a computer model that tells when you should buy and sell in the market.

[manaboutown]

Originally Posted by Stu from NYC

Amazing how some of these so called financial advisors do not bother to advertise their qualifications for telling others how to invest their life savings. One was a former math teacher who had enough of teaching and thought he could do better as an advisor.

Some have even said they use a computer model that tells when you should buy and sell in the market.

One of my fraternity brothers from college became an insurance salesman. He was not one of the brighter bulbs on the tree and one semester had 15 hours of F so dropped out and joined the army. He eventually returned to college and obtained a BA in education. He was not making enough teaching so he started selling life insurance on the side. He soon gave up teaching and went into selling life insurance full time. He told me in his first full time year he made three times the income he had made the prior year as a school teacher. He eventually started his own agency and his son joined him. They have had a few complaints filed against them over the years.

[bimmertl]

Originally Posted by Stu from NYC

Amazing how some of these so called financial advisors do not bother to advertise their qualifications for telling others how to invest their life savings. One was a former math teacher who had enough of teaching and thought he could do better as an advisor.

Some have even said they use a computer model that tells when you should buy and sell in the market.

If you consider getting a financial advisor, one of the things to look for is an advisor who is certified a Certified Financial Planner.

Certified Financial Planner (CFP): What You Need to Know - NerdWallet


None of the advisors at Fross and Fross has that designation.