[airstreamingypsy]

Originally Posted by Battlebasset

European countries have this, it's called VAT (value added tax). When I was in Germany it was around 20%, but that was awhile ago.

I would support a reduced, simplified flat income tax with this as well as a national sales tax, in order to capture more illegal income (drug dealers have to buy food and clothes) as well as have everyone pay something, but that will never happen.

And yes, SS and Medicare needs to be phased out to the greatest extent possible. There, I said it.

What happens to people who survive on SS and Medicare? European countries are socialist and take care of their residents with things like free healthcare..... your ways sounds like a good way to wipe out people less fortunate than you.

[Two Bills]

Originally Posted by airstreamingypsy

What happens to people who survive on SS and Medicare? European countries are socialist and take care of their residents with things like free healthcare..... your ways sounds like a good way to wipe out people less fortunate than you.

We pay a fortune in tax for 'Free' healthcare!

[Cheiro]

Originally Posted by CoachKandSportsguy

https://buddycarter.house.gov/upload..._act_118th.pdf

Replacing all taxes with a consumption tax. . . basically a sales and service tax. . .

not sure how this bill will get implemented, and even if its a good idea. . . switching from income earned to good and services purchased . . .

A similar system as this is used in Europe. Unlike here in the US where a tax (sales and/or user) is added at point of ultimate consumer purchase, a tax is added as a good is created/manufactured, at each step along the way. From the processing of raw material, to each process as something is made a tax is added. The result is that taxes are rather "hidden" in the cost of the ultimate purchase price. Taxes of this kind are really "regressive" and hit those of low income much harder than those who are wealthy. This is why states controlled by the wealthy have sales taxes rather than income taxes. The income tax was designed to spread the burden of taxation more fairly, the more you make, the more you pay.

[Glorantha]

Most of the world uses some form of VAT tax.
Value-added tax - Wikipedia

This country definitely needs a simpler tax code, either a flat tax or something similar to a VAT tax. Warren Buffett famously went on record that it wasn’t fair that his secretary had a higher marginal tax rate than he did. He failed to point out that he had a ton of lawyers that squeezed every deduction out of an overly complicated tax code. He also spends a ton of money lobbying government to put more loopholes into the tax code to benefit his investments.

I imagine the people that would get impacted the most by the increased size of the IRS will be the middle class and the small businesses. My coworkers who seemed to get audited every other year were the ones that tithed to the church and charities at a high percentage.

When the ACA was implemented over a decade ago, it was actually supported by large corporations such as Walmart. They knew they would be able to afford the massive overhead involved in implementing new government policies. While their small and medium sized competitors would have a difficult burden trying to afford the overhead needed to administer all the new government regulations.

[JP]

They can't even get rid of day light savings time...this tax idea, though a good idea, will never pass. What a classic waste of time.

[Battlebasset]

Originally Posted by airstreamingypsy

What happens to people who survive on SS and Medicare? European countries are socialist and take care of their residents with things like free healthcare..... your ways sounds like a good way to wipe out people less fortunate than you.

No, that would be your perception of that. If you are surviving on SS and Medicare, and are pulling out more than you put in (with interest) it's welfare. I'm just saying give people a chance to invest more for their future so they don't have to rely on welfare, even if you call it by a different name.

If they don't/can't, then they would go on (real) welfare and Medicaid/ACA. And we could then fund it properly, via taxes.

[toeser]

Originally Posted by CoachKandSportsguy

https://buddycarter.house.gov/upload..._act_118th.pdf

Replacing all taxes with a consumption tax. . . basically a sales and service tax. . .

not sure how this bill will get implemented, and even if its a good idea. . . switching from income earned to good and services purchased . . .

There have been people pushing for this for at least two decades. Probably never going to happen.

[Battlebasset]

Originally Posted by Cheiro

A similar system as this is used in Europe. Unlike here in the US where a tax (sales and/or user) is added at point of ultimate consumer purchase, a tax is added as a good is created/manufactured, at each step along the way. From the processing of raw material, to each process as something is made a tax is added. The result is that taxes are rather "hidden" in the cost of the ultimate purchase price. Taxes of this kind are really "regressive" and hit those of low income much harder than those who are wealthy. This is why states controlled by the wealthy have sales taxes rather than income taxes. The income tax was designed to spread the burden of taxation more fairly, the more you make, the more you pay.

What state isn't controlled by the wealthy?

[Two Bills]

Originally Posted by Cheiro

A similar system as this is used in Europe. Unlike here in the US where a tax (sales and/or user) is added at point of ultimate consumer purchase, a tax is added as a good is created/manufactured, at each step along the way. From the processing of raw material, to each process as something is made a tax is added. The result is that taxes are rather "hidden" in the cost of the ultimate purchase price. Taxes of this kind are really "regressive" and hit those of low income much harder than those who are wealthy. This is why states controlled by the wealthy have sales taxes rather than income taxes. The income tax was designed to spread the burden of taxation more fairly, the more you make, the more you pay.

20% VAT is paid by consumer on purchasing product.
Tax does not get lost anywhere.

[G.R.I.T.S.]

Originally Posted by CoachKandSportsguy

https://buddycarter.house.gov/upload..._act_118th.pdf

Replacing all taxes with a consumption tax. . . basically a sales and service tax. . .

not sure how this bill will get implemented, and even if its a good idea. . . switching from income earned to good and services purchased . . .

I've always liked the idea of a flat tax for everyone at 5%, then extra for good ol' Social Security. Of course, it may throw CPAs, IRS agents & company CFOs out of work, but there would most likely be more jobs out there in other areas. Just withdraw the amount on W-2s, a line item on 1099s and quarterly filings by companies. Then MAYBE DC could learn to live within its means. At least, it's a start...

[Wondering]

Originally Posted by CoachKandSportsguy

https://buddycarter.house.gov/upload..._act_118th.pdf

Replacing all taxes with a consumption tax. . . basically a sales and service tax. . .

not sure how this bill will get implemented, and even if its a good idea. . . switching from income earned to good and services purchased . . .

Sponsor of Bill is from Georgia - that says it all. Another example of helping the rich and putting the burden on low income families.

[Bay Kid]

Originally Posted by JP

They can't even get rid of day light savings time...this tax idea, though a good idea, will never pass. What a classic waste of time.

I thought they did decide not change the time after the spring change.

[Bay Kid]

Originally Posted by Battlebasset

No, that would be your perception of that. If you are surviving on SS and Medicare, and are pulling out more than you put in (with interest) it's welfare. I'm just saying give people a chance to invest more for their future so they don't have to rely on welfare, even if you call it by a different name.

If they don't/can't, then they would go on (real) welfare and Medicaid/ACA. And we could then fund it properly, via taxes.

I believe I have paid into SS for over 55 years. It is not an entitlement or welfare, I earned it. Now if I can just live long enough to get it back.

[Battlebasset]

Originally Posted by Bay Kid

I believe I have paid into SS for over 55 years. It is not an entitlement or welfare, I earned it. Now if I can just live long enough to get it back.

Yes you did, as have I, because of the current "rules of the game".

But such system is not sustainable long term. Current workers are paying the current benefits, and too many people are pulling out far more than they put in for any number of reasons (never earned that much, greater lifespans).

As you hope to "live long enough" to get out what you put in (with a little extra), think of all of those people that die at 65, and would have rather left that invested money to their heirs, vs having it vaporize.

I have a private pension that ends when I die. I took a smaller monthly amount so I could also receive a lump sum that I rolled into an IRA, so I would have the ability to will it to my children should I go early. That I could do that with SS

[Aces4]

Originally Posted by Bogie Shooter

First of many bills coming up in new congress…..with no chance of becoming law.

Well, at least we’re used to that type of activity.