[Dr.Butler]

Originally Posted by JMintzer

Many border hospitals have closed their doors due to being overwhelmed by illegal immigrants using the Emergency Rooms and their primary care facilities (by law, they cannot be denied service), and Obstetric services despite having ZERO pre-natal care.

I saw the Maternity department shuttered at my Catholic Charities hospital in DC, once they illegal immigrant population found out they could show up (often from well over 100 miles away), 9 months pregnant and have a baby at no charge. The malpractice insurance rates crippled the Obstetricians giving care. The hospital then hired them, since SOMEONE had to handle the massive influx of deliveries.

After a few lawsuits, with massive settlements (due to the complete lack of pre-natal care), they simply gave up and closed the department...

Are you referring to the maternity units at Providence Hospital and United Medical Center (UMC) in Washington, D.C., in 2017?

Providence Hospital:

Closed its obstetrics unit in October 2017, delivering between 1,500 and 2,000 babies annually.

Accepted patients regardless of legal status or ability to pay, offering affordable rates and charity care packages.

The closure was part of a cost-saving measure by Ascension Health, the hospital's parent organization.

United Medical Center (UMC):

Ordered to shut down its obstetrics unit in August 2017 after a series of dangerous mistakes, including a patient death under questionable circumstances.

The closure left the District without an obstetrics ward east of the Anacostia River, affecting the city's poorest ward.

The hospital faced criticism for poor patient care and management issues.

These closures were primarily due to financial challenges, management decisions, and regulatory actions, rather than being directly attributed to undocumented immigrants. While hospitals like Providence did serve patients regardless of legal status, there is no evidence that supports the claim that undocumented immigrants were the primary cause of these closures.

[Dr.Butler]

Originally Posted by jimjamuser

Classroom size depends on several variables. One would be rapid population growth. Another would be having MORE teachers by paying them more. Another would be keeping the teachers SAFE in the classroom, which would be a whole topic unto itself. And I think that a person is "ILLEGAL" if they meet the definition of an illegal aliens.

And is that definition? As an aside, why are we (America) treating legal immigrants as if THEY are illegal?

[Lottoguy]

For 50 years the USA has had a trade deficit. In that same time period our economy has increased 350%. The entire world trade is now vastly different then it was when steel and coal was king.

[Pugchief]

Originally Posted by Dr.Butler

I get the frustration; the situation in cities like NYC and Chicago is certainly complex, but some of these claims need clarification.

Yes, there have been cases where cities have provided temporary shelter (including hotel rooms) and basic necessities to migrants, especially during recent surges. But these are emergency measures, often coordinated with nonprofits or funded partially through state or federal aid, not blanket “free perks.”

Emergency measures? LOL, they were put up in those hotels for months.

Free schools? That’s been the law since the 1982 Plyler v. Doe Supreme Court ruling — all children, regardless of immigration status, have the right to public education.

So what? It's still the taxpayers supporting it and is a huge burden on the teachers, the system and the other students,

Health care? Undocumented immigrants can’t access Medicare, Medicaid, or ACA plans in most cases. They can only get emergency treatment, which hospitals are legally required to provide.

See JMintzer's post.

Free phones? That’s a misunderstanding. Phones are sometimes issued to asylum seekers as part of a tracking system — not for personal use, but to ensure they attend court hearings.

False. Phones provided to all. If you have proof otherwise, please provide it.

Free food? Some food assistance comes from local charities or short-term programs, not long-term taxpayer-funded benefits like SNAP, which undocumented immigrants don’t qualify for.

Not sure about this one, also please provide data. I assume the city is paying for it unless I see otherwise. NYC and Chicago have spent billions. Money is going somewhere (besides just cronies' pockets).

Also worth noting: undocumented immigrants pay billions in taxes every year through sales tax, property tax (even when renting), and even payroll tax if they’re working under borrowed or fake SSNs. Yet they can’t claim most public benefits.

Payroll: Not if they're being paid under the table. Property: They don't rent, they get free housing. Sales: Yes, you are correct on that one.

There’s room for debate on how best to manage immigration, but we need to be clear on the facts if we’re going to have an honest conversation.

Not really, they are here ILLEGALLY, which is a crime. Come by legal channels and we can debate.

[jimjamuser]

Originally Posted by Dr.Butler

I get the frustration; the situation in cities like NYC and Chicago is certainly complex, but some of these claims need clarification.

Yes, there have been cases where cities have provided temporary shelter (including hotel rooms) and basic necessities to migrants, especially during recent surges. But these are emergency measures, often coordinated with nonprofits or funded partially through state or federal aid, not blanket “free perks.”

Free schools? That’s been the law since the 1982 Plyler v. Doe Supreme Court ruling — all children, regardless of immigration status, have the right to public education.

Health care? Undocumented immigrants can’t access Medicare, Medicaid, or ACA plans in most cases. They can only get emergency treatment, which hospitals are legally required to provide.

Free phones? That’s a misunderstanding. Phones are sometimes issued to asylum seekers as part of a tracking system — not for personal use, but to ensure they attend court hearings.

Free food? Some food assistance comes from local charities or short-term programs, not long-term taxpayer-funded benefits like SNAP, which undocumented immigrants don’t qualify for.

Also worth noting: undocumented immigrants pay billions in taxes every year through sales tax, property tax (even when renting), and even payroll tax if they’re working under borrowed or fake SSNs. Yet they can’t claim most public benefits.

There’s room for debate on how best to manage immigration, but we need to be clear on the facts if we’re going to have an honest conversation.

Last paragraph...."how best to manage immigration?" Actually, it is ILLEGAL immigration that I am opposed to. I see on TV huge line of ILLEGALS crossing our border into our country. Our country that I served in the military for. Those people have NOT served the US - our country. They are here to freeload on America's success. They bring diseases due to being un-vaccinated and we don't know their CRIMINAL RECORDS. There are unskilled men and women and they bring children that they expect America to educate. Basically, we don't either NEED or WANT them here. They just cause problems and then there is the add-on problem that some of them cause crime - over and above their INITIAL crime of transgressing our borders.

[jimjamuser]

Originally Posted by Dr.Butler

And is that definition? As an aside, why are we (America) treating legal immigrants as if THEY are illegal?

I agree with the last sentence. That definitely is a problem. Another problem is that every 4 or 8 years there may be a large change in emphasis on legal and ILLEGAL immigration. The US can't seem to make up its mind. personally I think that a country should do an A.I. analysis to determine what its OPTIMAL population should be and then determine what its LEGAL immigration should be, IF ANY.

[JMintzer]

Originally Posted by Dr.Butler

Are you referring to the maternity units at Providence Hospital and United Medical Center (UMC) in Washington, D.C., in 2017?

Providence Hospital:

Closed its obstetrics unit in October 2017, delivering between 1,500 and 2,000 babies annually.

Accepted patients regardless of legal status or ability to pay, offering affordable rates and charity care packages.

The closure was part of a cost-saving measure by Ascension Health, the hospital's parent organization.

United Medical Center (UMC):

Ordered to shut down its obstetrics unit in August 2017 after a series of dangerous mistakes, including a patient death under questionable circumstances.

The closure left the District without an obstetrics ward east of the Anacostia River, affecting the city's poorest ward.

The hospital faced criticism for poor patient care and management issues.

These closures were primarily due to financial challenges, management decisions, and regulatory actions, rather than being directly attributed to undocumented immigrants. While hospitals like Providence did serve patients regardless of legal status, there is no evidence that supports the claim that undocumented immigrants were the primary cause of these closures.

Except I was on the Credentials Committee and I was privy to all medical malpractice claims. I was also friends with several of the OB-GYNs who were initially in Private Practice, then became Hospital Employees and who finally left due to the problems they were facing.

Just because YOU couldn't find evidence of the hospital being overwhelmed doesn't mean it didn't happen...

[MorTech]

How to handle immigration? Provide sponsored work visas with a path to citizenship. Simple as that.
Allowing floods of people in and giving them $2K / month auto-filling debt cards at taxpayer expense is criminal.

Deliberate policy of offshoring manufacturing over the last 45 years was designed to make the people of the world more prosperous and peaceful. Removing tariff barriers against the USA is now needed to re-balance production/consumption globally for an even more prosperous and peaceful world. Mercantilism (National Industrial Policy (aka, Fascism) of a high-tariff export economy) needs to end. Problems of immigration/emigration will end as the entire world becomes wealthier. The world is close to 1000 trillion USD in total global wealth now! ...And growing rapidly!.

[Dr.Butler]

Originally Posted by Pugchief

Not really, they are here ILLEGALLY, which is a crime. Come by legal channels and we can debate.

I will likely come around to your other comments. But why are we going after those that are here legally? The did everything legally, went through the process was granted legal status and now, we send them out as if they are criminals. Explain.

[Dr.Butler]

Originally Posted by jimjamuser

Last paragraph...."how best to manage immigration?" Actually, it is ILLEGAL immigration that I am opposed to. I see on TV huge line of ILLEGALS crossing our border into our country. Our country that I served in the military for. Those people have NOT served the US - our country. They are here to freeload on America's success. They bring diseases due to being un-vaccinated and we don't know their CRIMINAL RECORDS. There are unskilled men and women and they bring children that they expect America to educate. Basically, we don't either NEED or WANT them here. They just cause problems and then there is the add-on problem that some of them cause crime - over and above their INITIAL crime of transgressing our borders.

So much to unload here. But ok, lets focus on the military aspect. There are people who imigrate to this country, and decide to serve in the military to gain citizenship, and when they finish serving, are still denied citizenship. Deported Veterans, Stranded Far from Home after Years of Military Service, Press Biden to Bring Them Back - Government Executive

"But in 2017 a Trump administration policy restricted access to the expedited citizenship promised to veterans after 9/11. And, in general, immigrant veterans get very little guidance about how to complete the naturalization process from their military branches once they have served."

The rest of your comments are literal talking points, with little or no evidence to support. You see huge lines on TV (See fox news) that suddenly disappear after an election cycle is over.

Diseases. Really? Aside from the fact that Mexico and America being neighbors would at least share somewhat similar rates of vaccination for childhood diseases. Its interesting to note your concern over these so called diseases but if everyone in America would be vaccinated there wouldn't be an issue here would there? (See Measles).

America's success has literally been built on the backs of immigrants (Of which you and I are one likely descendants of unless you are native American).

This is just some examples of where I see problems in your thought process. There are more, but I am thinking that facts do not matter in this conversation. Its all about your perceived grievances.

I thank you for your service. As a fellow veteran, all I will say is as our benefits get cut (Yes this is a real possibility at this point) will you still be worried about what immigrants are doing or what this administration (See Bone Spurs) is doing to us?

[jimjamuser]

Originally Posted by Dr.Butler

So much to unload here. But ok, lets focus on the military aspect. There are people who imigrate to this country, and decide to serve in the military to gain citizenship, and when they finish serving, are still denied citizenship. Deported Veterans, Stranded Far from Home after Years of Military Service, Press Biden to Bring Them Back - Government Executive

"But in 2017 a Trump administration policy restricted access to the expedited citizenship promised to veterans after 9/11. And, in general, immigrant veterans get very little guidance about how to complete the naturalization process from their military branches once they have served."

The rest of your comments are literal talking points, with little or no evidence to support. You see huge lines on TV (See fox news) that suddenly disappear after an election cycle is over.

Diseases. Really? Aside from the fact that Mexico and America being neighbors would at least share somewhat similar rates of vaccination for childhood diseases. Its interesting to note your concern over these so called diseases but if everyone in America would be vaccinated there wouldn't be an issue here would there? (See Measles).

America's success has literally been built on the backs of immigrants (Of which you and I are one likely descendants of unless you are native American).

This is just some examples of where I see problems in your thought process. There are more, but I am thinking that facts do not matter in this conversation. Its all about your perceived grievances.

I thank you for your service. As a fellow veteran, all I will say is as our benefits get cut (Yes this is a real possibility at this point) will you still be worried about what immigrants are doing or what this administration (See Bone Spurs) is doing to us?

As to your last, summary sentence - I will be worried about BOTH- illegal immigration and an out of control government. I did NOT know that Military veterans did NOT get the citizenship that they were promised. Sincerely, that is too bad. Maybe immigrants before about 1970 (when US population was around 275 million people) were fine. We need an A.I. study of what is the IDEAL (not maximum) population that the US should be. And the work toward that IDEAL population. Note - I doubt that it is over 300 million people.

[Stu from NYC]

Originally Posted by golfing eagles

That's all well and fine, but my tendency is to listen to my senior VP of wealth management at Merrill Lynch and not the "talking heads" on TV and the internet

You should have been listening to the financial advisers of Village of Stu. They have called every single market turn except for the ones they missed.

[Stu from NYC]

Originally Posted by HappyTraveler

Of course, they audio record what is happening in your home. And, no, not just what questions have been asked of it. They're on all the time. Those crazy Alexa and Siri, etc. machines were likely developed for that purpose.

Even worse, most (or all) Smart TVs have cameras and are video recording the room they are in. They probably audio record too - not sure on that. My understanding is that you can disable the camera but, it has to be done at initial set-up when you buy it. If anyone knows more about that, please post details.

Does this mean when I cannot sleep and get up in the middle of the night to read, I need to put more clothes on?

[Boomer]

Originally Posted by Stu from NYC

You should have been listening to the financial advisers of Village of Stu. They have called every single market turn except for the ones they missed.

This has to be the most meandering thread I have ever seen. All I did was suggest a couple of calmly presented, podcast episodes that some people might find interesting, in light of these interesting times. YMMV

But:

Mere bumpkin though I may be, I do know that it is not smart to try to do surgery with a chainsaw.

Boomer

[Pugchief]

Originally Posted by Dr.Butler

I will likely come around to your other comments. But why are we going after those that are here legally? The did everything legally, went through the process was granted legal status and now, we send them out as if they are criminals. Explain.

Who is "going after" those that are here legally? Unless you are referring to the mass asylum groups of the last 4 years. Legality of that is debatable.