[spinner1001]

Originally Posted by spinner1001

Ironically, environmentalists are at odds over renewable energy that results in practical problems.

The degrowth movement:

Degrowth: A dangerous idea or the answer to the world's biggest problems? | CNN Business

[waterflower]

A consideration to research. Nikola Tesla invented a wireles electricity/communication generating tower (Wardenclyffe Tower) in Shoreham, Long Island to transfer power currents around the globe by capturing the Earth's natural energy (ether). This didn't fit into the plans of GE, PSE&G, PECO JP Morgan etc. You would not need their gray box/electric bill. Blimp recharged on the empire state building. Castles had electricity many hundreds of years ago. Chicgo fair 1890, tartarian era.

[Pinball wizard]

If solar is so great a deal, why doesn't SECO and the other electric companies rent our roofs and put up solar on them for free? They could harvest the electric and resell it and the homeowner would get free electricity. They would have to throw in a new roof every 10 years in Florida or insure them on their own.

[CoachKandSportsguy]

Originally Posted by Pinball wizard

If solar is so great a deal, why doesn't SECO and the other electric companies rent our roofs and put up solar on them for free? They could harvest the electric and resell it and the homeowner would get free electricity. They would have to throw in a new roof every 10 years in Florida or insure them on their own.

They do in some places, its just not news, just like when patty next door puts panels on his/her roof.. .

The best places for solar panels are roofs for parking lots, over capped trash / dumps where no building can take place, on the sides / medians of some highways where there is space for never to be used for anything else. However, chopping down trees for a solar farm is not the correct answer.

[Mazjaz]

I have a family member who sells solar panels. Just to many problems with solar imho…insurance issues, solar removal and re-install costs to replace roofs, hurricanes, wind and hail damage, and getting stuck with a high cost, useless system if these companies go out of business before the install gets completed etc. Not for me.

[OrangeBlossomBaby]

Originally Posted by spinner1001

There is no such thing as a free lunch.

Actually, there is a "nearly free" lunch. There are ecovillages around the country that do exactly that. Near-zero waste, clean potable water, self-generating electricity 100% off the grid, chickens that lay eggs, they grow their own wheat and mill their own flour, etc. etc. They had to pay for the initial start up and maintenance for the first half dozen years. But now, they're almost 100% self-sufficient and pay almost nothing to live in their village. They even have physicians who live there who can provide basic medical care, and midwives who can assist with births. They use solar and wind energy, and their toilet waste is composted and used to fertilize the gardens.

[OrangeBlossomBaby]

Originally Posted by CoachKandSportsguy

They do in some places, its just not news, just like when patty next door puts panels on his/her roof.. .

The best places for solar panels are roofs for parking lots, over capped trash / dumps where no building can take place, on the sides / medians of some highways where there is space for never to be used for anything else. However, chopping down trees for a solar farm is not the correct answer.

That's exactly what North Haven, CT did. They put a solar farm on top of their old landfill. The electricity generated now powers all the municipal buildings in the town.

[tophcfa]

Originally Posted by OrangeBlossomBaby

Actually, there is a "nearly free" lunch. There are ecovillages around the country that do exactly that. Near-zero waste, clean potable water, self-generating electricity 100% off the grid, chickens that lay eggs, they grow their own wheat and mill their own flour, etc. etc. They had to pay for the initial start up and maintenance for the first half dozen years. But now, they're almost 100% self-sufficient and pay almost nothing to live in their village. They even have physicians who live there who can provide basic medical care, and midwives who can assist with births. They use solar and wind energy, and their toilet waste is composted and used to fertilize the gardens.

But do they have a whole bunch of golf courses, swimming pools, pickle-ball courts, town squares with nightly entertainment, all golf cart accessible? The part about having physicians who can provide basic medical care sounds good.

[ithos]

How about 300 ft windmills? FCC Coleman has plenty of undeveloped land to put them on. There are already power lines nearby so they would blend right in.

[spinner1001]

Originally Posted by OrangeBlossomBaby

Actually, there is a "nearly free" lunch. There are ecovillages around the country that do exactly that. Near-zero waste, clean potable water, self-generating electricity 100% off the grid, chickens that lay eggs, they grow their own wheat and mill their own flour, etc. etc. They had to pay for the initial start up and maintenance for the first half dozen years. But now, they're almost 100% self-sufficient and pay almost nothing to live in their village. They even have physicians who live there who can provide basic medical care, and midwives who can assist with births. They use solar and wind energy, and their toilet waste is composted and used to fertilize the gardens.

Of course opportunity costs don’t count for anything. Moving backward to the farm sure seems like a great path to growth and prosperity for children delivered by midwives and the others. I’m sure that many Villagers will be moving out of here to the farm soon. Oh, wait. Do ecovillages have town squares and moonshine happy hours, after cleaning out the barn of course?

https://youtu.be/lOfZLb33uCg

[Stu from NYC]

Nuclear fission is coming and should solve all these problems.

[OrangeBlossomBaby]

Originally Posted by spinner1001

Of course opportunity costs don’t count for anything. Moving backward to the farm sure seems like a great path to growth and prosperity for children delivered by midwives and the others. I’m sure that many Villagers will be moving out of here to the farm soon. Oh, wait. Do ecovillages have town squares and moonshine happy hours, after cleaning out the barn of course?

https://youtu.be/lOfZLb33uCg

They have indoor plumbing, heat and hot water, electricity, internet service, all the comforts of home. One of them has a restaurant. They make everything from scratch, using produce they grow on the farm. A friend of mine lives at this one: Dancing Rabbit Ecovillage – Communal Living | Sustainable Living | Community Living

[B.Kauffman]

Originally Posted by CoachKandSportsguy

To be fair, presenting the other side of solar panels. . .

Rooftop solar was overlooked. Now it's closing a New England power plant. - E&E News by POLITICO

From an individual ROI and cost for rooftop solar in MA, individual installations might not prove to be a great investment return with the amount of clouds and short winter days. But if you get enough small investments online, you might get to critical mass for success. Brownian motion of humans in a free society.

FERC, Federal Energy Regulatory Commission has agreed to shut down a small but existing power plant given the amount of rooftop solar in New England.

from a different point of view, there are positives from solar at the critical mass level

. Not sure how to start a new post on here so I’ll reply here & hopefully get a reply back. Here in PA we have Skylights that open & allow heat to escape during the hot summer months. These allow for a nice flow of air through our 2nd floor. Are they utilized in TV. Thanks & if anyone can please share directions on how to create my own post.

[retiredguy123]

Originally Posted by B.Kauffman

. Not sure how to start a new post on here so I’ll reply here & hopefully get a reply back. Here in PA we have Skylights that open & allow heat to escape during the hot summer months. These allow for a nice flow of air through our 2nd floor. Are they utilized in TV. Thanks & if anyone can please share directions on how to create my own post.

Click on "Forum" then "All Forums Home", select a forum topic and then click on "Post New Thread".

[BrianL99]

Originally Posted by Dotneko

We installed 175 solar panels on the 200 ft long barn roof on our farm in Massachusetts in 2014 or so. With SRECs included, our entire energy needs were met with money coming in to us. 8 year payback. We were able to convert our oil furnace to electric. Our typical February electric bill (before converting the house) was $2500.00. Granted, we had a large horse farm with 70X200ft indoor riding arena, apartment and heated barn. But solar was a huge saving for us!
If we had 3phase on the street, we would have done more and sold back to the grid.
This was with the panels covered by snow about 3 months a year. I dont understand why there wasnt a trickle charge melting the snow to allow continuous daily production.
There were only a certain number of net metering setups allowed yearly.
Hail didnt happen often in MA, but I still dont know why we dont have more panels here in FL.

Your example offers some insight into the true state of the solar industry and why Florida (& most states) don't use more Solar ... it's not financially feasible.

Only 7 states offer SREC's. SREC's are what makes the world go around, in the solar industry. Without them, the numbers just don't work in most situations.

For those who don't understand SREC credits, here are the basics.

Most Power generators are required to generate a % of their electricity from renewable sources. One economical way to do this, is to simply bypass the regulation and purchase SREC credits.

Alternative producers (including home owners) generate SREC's when they produce solar power. The producer can sell those SREC credits on the open market or they can do what most everyone does: sign up with an aggregator, who will then syndicate & auction large packages of SREC's. The power companies who aren't using renewable sources are allowed to the SREC's and thereby meet the regulations.

SREC's are always a crap shoot, because states usually have "sunset provisions", although most seem to always get renewed.

The second benefit to Solar, is ACRS (& MACRS) ... accelerated cost recovery. You can depreciate your solar installation (construction costs), faster ... which offers tax benefits to many.

The 3rd benefit of installing Solar, is the Federal (& in many cases, state) tax credits. The current Federal Tax Credit is 30%. That's real money. 30% of what you spend, comes directly off your tax liability for the year (assuming you're running a profitable business). Again, "sunsetting" is always threatened with these credits, but they keep on getting renewed.

4th and final benefit, you save on your electric bill.

The long and the short of it is, Solar is not financially feasible, without the associated tax benefits and subsidies. If it were, the taxpayers wouldn't have lost 1/2 Billion dollars when Obama loaned Solyndra all that money.

(FYI. I'm currently doing a $1.5M solar installation on the roof of a new automotive facility, outside of Boston. The Solar Consultant has estimated my "pay back" at 8 years. I'm figuring 10-11 years in reality. I won't have "Net Metering", as many locally owned electric companies are exempt from the requirement to provide Net Metering. I'm likely to meet about 70% of our electrical needs, given weather fluctuations and building constraints. Those savings are built into the "pay back" calculations.)