[fdpaq0580]

Originally Posted by jimjamuser

Yes, I took a class in Mild Sarcasm. It changed my life......many pretty and witty co-eds loved that class.

Never understood why female students were called co-eds. Male students weren't called eds, were they?
😯???

[Lil GTO]

Return it and get an EGO their mowers are the best electrics available.

Mine does my corner lot takes about 45 minutes on one charge and has power left cuts the grass without problem

Originally Posted by starflyte1

Back again but with a new mower. This one starts and runs but the blade is not cutting all the time. It is w waste of time to try to mow.

Customer serviced is closed until Monday.

Any easy fix suggestions? This is very frustrating.

Thank you for any replies.

The battery is fully charged but the mother seen very weak turning the blade.

[OhioBuckeye]

All I’m saying is only a few people will be able to afford electric cars they will be only for the elite not for everybody, including me. There’s charging stations you have to put in your home, not cheap, you can only go so far on a charge, then you have to use gas or spend an hr. waiting to batteries to charge & eventually you’ll be charge for that. Then getting new batteries, dealers say in about 10 yrs. to me that’s BS, I worked in a Engine Auto Plant for 38 yrs. Batteries to replace in your electric car will cost at least $8,000. today & as time goes on you know that price will go up a lot. Then you have to pay someone to dispose of the 10+ batteries. People don’t realize the expense of owning an electric vehicle. Now our president is pushing electric farm equipment to the market in 2023. Can you imagine how much food prices will go up. If you think this is a good thing, hooray! I’m not a fan of electric transportation, I might of worked in a U.S. auto plant for 38 yrs. & I agree I don’t know what’s kept secret behind closed doors but I do know more than the average American. Do what you want, but not me!

[jimjamuser]

Originally Posted by fdpaq0580

Never understood why female students were called co-eds. Male students weren't called eds, were they?
😯???

At my college, the male students were called.............DEAD-EDS.

[MartinSE]

Originally Posted by OhioBuckeye

All I’m saying is only a few people will be able to afford electric cars they will be only for the elite not for everybody, including me. There’s charging stations you have to put in your home, not cheap, you can only go so far on a charge, then you have to use gas or spend an hr. waiting to batteries to charge & eventually you’ll be charge for that. Then getting new batteries, dealers say in about 10 yrs. to me that’s BS, I worked in a Engine Auto Plant for 38 yrs. Batteries to replace in your electric car will cost at least $8,000. today & as time goes on you know that price will go up a lot. Then you have to pay someone to dispose of the 10+ batteries. People don’t realize the expense of owning an electric vehicle. Now our president is pushing electric farm equipment to the market in 2023. Can you imagine how much food prices will go up. If you think this is a good thing, hooray! I’m not a fan of electric transportation, I might of worked in a U.S. auto plant for 38 yrs. & I agree I don’t know what’s kept secret behind closed doors but I do know more than the average American. Do what you want, but not me!

Well, let's see - I'm glad you know what goes on behind closed doors. It is sad you feel competed to insinuate something but not say, but since you won't, lets look at the FACTS starting with a little history.

Automobiles were invented in the 1700's - mostly steam-powered. ONLY the rich could afford them. Almost 200 years later (1885) Karl Benz invented the gasoline-powered automobile. Only the rich could afford them. Then, 23 years later, in 1908 Ford invented the Model T, only the middle class could afford them, but it launched the era of the ICE-powered automobile.

Electric automobiles were developed in 1800, and only the rich could afford them. They were very expensive and not very "good". When ICE became available, in 1908, electric cars pretty much fell out of favor because it was not able to complete on cost and range.

The point of my little history lesson is, that we have been here before. From Benz's (eventually became Mercedes Benz) invention in 1885 to Ford making it affordable in 1908 took about 23 years.

Tesla began in 2003 (about 20 years ago) and EVERYONE laughed. NO one believed it was possible for a small startup with no experience to make an automobile that could compete with the "big boys", much less an EV. The idea that an EV could be successful was at best a joke. Now, 19 years later Tesla has revolutionized the manufacturing process, has revolutionized the battery industry, and can not make them fast enough - they are currently back-ordered by almost a year. There IS demand.

Telsa just opened its GIGA factory in Texas which is a revolutionary factory unlike any other auto manufacturer in the world. It won't be the last. When Ford "invented" mass production with his factory, he became part of launching the industrial revolution. Musk is in some ways having the same impact today.

At this point, almost every auto manufacturer in the world has announced it will be selling EVs soon. Many already do, with some of those costing as little as $15,000 and less, witness Atomic Car, which is street legal and has a "usable" local range, but not so great for long-distance trips. There are a plethora of new models coming from China, Korea, Japan, and other countries that are CHEAP. Not so great quality, not so great range, not so great features, but very very affordable for running back and forth to work and the grocery store and taking the kids to school. VERY affordable to the middle and even in some cases the lower class. All of these alternatives in just 19 years.

To help speed the adoption, Tesla makes its innovative design available to any company that wants to compete with them.

Henry Ford was by far one of the most imperative inventors of the Industrial Revolution. His primary invention, the automobile, changed life as we know it. It enabled people to go wherever they wanted whenever they wanted. The automobile modernizes the transportation industry entirely.

There was MAJOR resistance to ICE automobiles, but eventually, they won. We are in the same situation now, We are on the onramp. EVs are here. supply and diversity will follow shortly as all the world's manufacturers jump on board. NO ONE IS forcing anyone or any company. There are incentives to make the change, but no force.

I won't bother correcting many of your statements, like having to pay to dispose of batteries. NO, they are recycled. not buried. And Musk again with Tesla is leading the way in innovation in designing batteries that are easier to manufacture and recycle.

Electric cars are here. There are affordable EVs for everyone already. That affordable alternative will not compete on specs with ICE cars, but in many cases, the EV is significantly less expensive to own and operate for LOCAL applications. Maybe those local applications will change the design of cities (ICE enabled suburbs, EV may bring back down towns?)

Some say the EV is not affordable, but every single time I have seen that statement, they then leap into 1000-mile journeys across the country. But, 1000-mile trips make up an extremely small percentage of the use cases for automobiles. So, tell me how does it make financial sense for a person to own a land yacht (Ford Expedition) to drive back and forth daily to work, school and shopping? I see, it seems, half of the cars in the Publix parking lot are SUVs. I expect MOST of those SUVs drove less than 5 miles to get to the store. Seriously? That is affordable? Maybe to you, but lower middle class and poor Americans would LOVE an EV they could afford - Atomic Car and the like are extremely enticing alternatives to ICE for everyday use. Plug it in every night, never pay for gas again, and reduce maintenance and operational cost.

One more thing that is important to point out. A LOT of people have shorted Tesla for a long time. Those people stand to (and have) lost billions of dollars. Many of those people spend a significant amount of money financing misinformation campaigns about EVs in hopes they can make the Tesla stock crash and hence clean up on the short positions. Be very careful where you get your FACTS.


Ignoring the political tint, "People don’t realize the expense of owning an electric vehicle. Now our president is pushing electric farm equipment to the market in 2023. Can you imagine how much food prices will go up?"

Actually, people DO realize the expense of owning an EV. Ask any Tesla owner, they are thrilled and gush about how INEXPENSIVE it is for Total Cost of Ownership.

John Deere is "electrifying" its product line. I expect they are doing it to make money, not because someone forced them to.

Police departments are buying Teslas and reporting they are less expensive for the department to buy and operate. So, they are ordering more.

I expect you IMAGINED how much food prices will go up. I expect the corporate offices are more interested in the bottom line than they are in what kind of technology is in their tractors. And they are interested in EVs.

The Trucking industry is literally drooling to get EV Tractors in their fleets. Combine EV tractor with Full Self Driving and the cost to the trucking companies drops massively. Sadly, that will cost almost 4 million truck driver jobs directly. But, it will not be the first time an entire job market is destroyed by an advance in technology. It is called "progress" it comes with a cost.

We could all still be driving horse-drawn wagons and wagon wheels would still be a major industry.

[WOW! I think I just set a new record for post length - even for my insanely long rambling posts...!]

[JMintzer]

Originally Posted by MartinSE

Well, let's see - I'm glad you know what goes on behind closed doors. It is sad you feel competed to insinuate something but not say, but since you won't, lets look at the FACTS starting with a little history.

Automobiles were invented in the 1700's - mostly steam-powered. ONLY the rich could afford them. Almost 200 years later (1885) Karl Benz invented the gasoline-powered automobile. Only the rich could afford them. Then, 23 years later, in 1908 Ford invented the Model T, only the middle class could afford them, but it launched the era of the ICE-powered automobile.

Electric automobiles were developed in 1800, and only the rich could afford them. They were very expensive and not very "good". When ICE became available, in 1908, electric cars pretty much fell out of favor because it was not able to complete on cost and range.

The point of my little history lesson is, that we have been here before. From Benz's (eventually became Mercedes Benz) invention in 1885 to Ford making it affordable in 1908 took about 23 years.

Tesla began in 2003 (about 20 years ago) and EVERYONE laughed. NO one believed it was possible for a small startup with no experience to make an automobile that could compete with the "big boys", much less an EV. The idea that an EV could be successful was at best a joke. Now, 19 years later Tesla has revolutionized the manufacturing process, has revolutionized the battery industry, and can not make them fast enough - they are currently back-ordered by almost a year. There IS demand.

Telsa just opened its GIGA factory in Texas which is a revolutionary factory unlike any other auto manufacturer in the world. It won't be the last. When Ford "invented" mass production with his factory, he became part of launching the industrial revolution. Musk is in some ways having the same impact today.

At this point, almost every auto manufacturer in the world has announced it will be selling EVs soon. Many already do, with some of those costing as little as $15,000 and less, witness Atomic Car, which is street legal and has a "usable" local range, but not so great for long-distance trips. There are a plethora of new models coming from China, Korea, Japan, and other countries that are CHEAP. Not so great quality, not so great range, not so great features, but very very affordable for running back and forth to work and the grocery store and taking the kids to school. VERY affordable to the middle and even in some cases the lower class. All of these alternatives in just 19 years.

To help speed the adoption, Tesla makes its innovative design available to any company that wants to compete with them.

Henry Ford was by far one of the most imperative inventors of the Industrial Revolution. His primary invention, the automobile, changed life as we know it. It enabled people to go wherever they wanted whenever they wanted. The automobile modernizes the transportation industry entirely.

There was MAJOR resistance to ICE automobiles, but eventually, they won. We are in the same situation now, We are on the onramp. EVs are here. supply and diversity will follow shortly as all the world's manufacturers jump on board. NO ONE IS forcing anyone or any company. There are incentives to make the change, but no force.

I won't bother correcting many of your statements, like having to pay to dispose of batteries. NO, they are recycled. not buried. And Musk again with Tesla is leading the way in innovation in designing batteries that are easier to manufacture and recycle.

Electric cars are here. There are affordable EVs for everyone already. That affordable alternative will not compete on specs with ICE cars, but in many cases, the EV is significantly less expensive to own and operate for LOCAL applications. Maybe those local applications will change the design of cities (ICE enabled suburbs, EV may bring back down towns?)

Some say the EV is not affordable, but every single time I have seen that statement, they then leap into 1000-mile journeys across the country. But, 1000-mile trips make up an extremely small percentage of the use cases for automobiles. So, tell me how does it make financial sense for a person to own a land yacht (Ford Expedition) to drive back and forth daily to work, school and shopping? I see, it seems, half of the cars in the Publix parking lot are SUVs. I expect MOST of those SUVs drove less than 5 miles to get to the store. Seriously? That is affordable? Maybe to you, but lower middle class and poor Americans would LOVE an EV they could afford - Atomic Car and the like are extremely enticing alternatives to ICE for everyday use. Plug it in every night, never pay for gas again, and reduce maintenance and operational cost.

One more thing that is important to point out. A LOT of people have shorted Tesla for a long time. Those people stand to (and have) lost billions of dollars. Many of those people spend a significant amount of money financing misinformation campaigns about EVs in hopes they can make the Tesla stock crash and hence clean up on the short positions. Be very careful where you get your FACTS.


Ignoring the political tint, "People don’t realize the expense of owning an electric vehicle. Now our president is pushing electric farm equipment to the market in 2023. Can you imagine how much food prices will go up?"

Actually, people DO realize the expense of owning an EV. Ask any Tesla owner, they are thrilled and gush about how INEXPENSIVE it is for Total Cost of Ownership.

John Deere is "electrifying" its product line. I expect they are doing it to make money, not because someone forced them to.

Police departments are buying Teslas and reporting they are less expensive for the department to buy and operate. So, they are ordering more.

I expect you IMAGINED how much food prices will go up. I expect the corporate offices are more interested in the bottom line than they are in what kind of technology is in their tractors. And they are interested in EVs.

The Trucking industry is literally drooling to get EV Tractors in their fleets. Combine EV tractor with Full Self Driving and the cost to the trucking companies drops massively. Sadly, that will cost almost 4 million truck driver jobs directly. But, it will not be the first time an entire job market is destroyed by an advance in technology. It is called "progress" it comes with a cost.

We could all still be driving horse-drawn wagons and wagon wheels would still be a major industry.

[WOW! I think I just set a new record for post length - even for my insanely long rambling posts...!]

Yet you ignore that the electric grid cannot support all of these new EVs. Yes, in time, maybe they will, but that is DECADES in the future, if ever at all...

CA is currently having so much trouble supplying electricity that they have recommended that people NOT charge their vehicles at night, during peak electric usage...

Yes, technology moves faster today than in ye olden days, but so what? Past performance does not predict future earnings...

You think farmers are chomping at the bit to go electric? No, it'll be mandated.

And using the Atomic car as an example of affordable EVs is a joke. It's usage is so limited as to be useless for families, or if you dare venture near a highway...

They are like the "Smart Car" that was supposed to take the country by storm. How many of those do you see on a regular basis? For urban living DINKs, they have a limited appeal, but elsewhere? They're a toy...

You complain about someone "imagining" price increases due to EV trucking, yet your entire post (save the history lesson, which is informative, but not apropos to today) is nothing but YOUR imagination, speculating what MAY happen in the future...

[MartinSE]

Originally Posted by JMintzer

Yet you ignore that the electric grid cannot support all of these new EVs. Yes, in time, maybe they will, but that is DECADES in the future, if ever at all...

CA is currently having so much trouble supplying electricity that they have recommended that people NOT charge their vehicles at night, during peak electric usage...

Yes, technology moves faster today than in ye olden days, but so what? Past performance does not predict future earnings...

You think farmers are chomping at the bit to go electric? No, it'll be mandated.

And using the Atomic car as an example of affordable EVs is a joke. It's usage is so limited as to be useless for families, or if you dare venture near a highway...

They are like the "Smart Car" that was supposed to take the country by storm. How many of those do you see on a regular basis? For urban living DINKs, they have a limited appeal, but elsewhere? They're a toy...

You complain about someone "imagining" price increases due to EV trucking, yet your entire post (save the history lesson, which is informative, but not apropos to today) is nothing but YOUR imagination, speculating what MAY happen in the future...

Well, it appears your rebuttal was focused mainly on infrastructure, society, and use cases remaining constant. With population movements yet, the industrial revolution resulted in a MASSIVE movement into cities, resulting in significant demand for "downtowns" to change and massive infrastructure changes (food grown thousands of miles away instead of in the local farm)

And the grid, an area I worked in for about 10 years. The grid is an archaic design that needs to go away. It is vulnerable to natural and terrorist attacks. Outages are common. It is NOT a reliable source of energy. It should be replaced with a distributed generation system (which was being investigated by APS and Universities for a long time), which I predict the EV movement into both civilian population and industry will drive. Technology for distributed generation is advancing. I have NO idea what/which will win. A few examples are fuel cells for the home (available in commercial production today), solar panels and storage batteries for the home (available in commercial distribution today), micro-nuclear plants in the home (in development), hydrogen (in development, some commercial products available today), geothermal and hydro (both available today), and wind (available today). Most are possible today, most are not yet practical. But, I can assure you power companies a not happy about the potential of losing their monopolies. And are doing their best to pass legislation, buy politicians, and have disinformation campaigns to denigrate those alternatives.

Uh, no, I didn't say FARMERS are chomping at the bits, I said large corporations, including the massive food industry, are interested only in the bottom line and don't care what engine is in the tractors and factories. I did say, John Deere, a sort of a not small name in that field is offering an electric drivetrain soon/now?

I did say trucking companies are "chomping at the bit" or more accurately - DROOLING to get EVs with FSD. And they are. The cost-saving there is massive. Kenworth and Freightliner are already committed to (are supplying?) electric drive trains.

Anyway, I agree, TODAY the grid will not support 300 million EVs on the road (the number of ICE vehicles registered in this country.) The good news is that TODAY's EV production is at (best case) a couple million per year. So, we have at least decades (your estimate) to "Fix" the infrastructure. Other countries are "fixing" it much faster than the US. I will leave it to the reader to noodle out WHY the US instead of leading the world in this area of new tech growth is, in fact, lagging behind the rest of the world.

And the difference between my post and the "imagine the cost" post, is I provided a rather lengthy discussion of WHY I think this is the direction of the future of EVs. And my predictions are based on what the various industries are saying and doing.

I guess the alternative to market driving the evolution of EV is that some cabal is FORCING people to buy Teslas. hmmm. maybe, maybe movies are inserting subliminal suggestions in-between frames. I heard "a lot of people saying" Musk has developed technology to compel people to buy Tesla's even if they don't want them.

And of course, my references to police departments are TRUE, my reference to pent-up demand for OTR Tractors is TRUE, and my reference to every Tesla owner loving their cars and gushing about savings is TRUE. So, for my "Imagine" there is some basis.

Thank you for your interesting post. It was a good rebuttal and made me think about what I had said and how I can improve my position.

BTW, the 1908 Model T was about $900 (about $30,000 in today's dollars) by 1915 that price was reduced to about $300 or $10,000 in today's dollars. Gasoline was not produced intentionally, it was a waste product of making kerosene. And anyone that wanted it bought it in 5-gallon cans at the local hardware stores. By 1920 there were federally funded concrete highways (very hard on horse hooves, the primary means of transportation for most of the middle and lower class at that time) and a ubiquitous network of "gasoline stations". Many were at that time still pumping the gas into a can and then pouring it into the car. Many people were filling 55-gallon cans and taking them home on their horse-drawn wagons to fuel the gas-powered cars.

There was a MASSIVE infrastructure change required. We invested almost countless trillions of today's dollars in infrastructure.

Today, we can't even pass a bill to fix leaky water pipes and falling down bridges around the country, so I expect the infrastructure changes required for EVs will be slower - here in the US. On that, I agree with you. Our current infrastructure can't deal with the massive adoption of EVs. But, I have faith in our predatory capitalism system. Once big business sees there is more profit in EVs Congress will suddenly "see the light" and pass massive infrastructure research and development projects which will lead to massive new good-paying jobs. And all of a sudden the ney sayers will start cheering. Cats and dogs will start sleeping together, and birds will sing, the sun will shine and ... well you get the idea.

But, that is my "dream". I hope to live long enough to see how it really turns out.

(OH and compare the Atomic Car to the Model T - AC, radio, power windows, roof, windows longer range, etc. - VASSTLY better)

[JMintzer]

Originally Posted by MartinSE

Well, it appears your rebuttal was focused mainly on infrastructure, society, and use cases remaining constant. With population movements yet, the industrial revolution resulted in a MASSIVE movement into cities, resulting in significant demand for "downtowns" to change and massive infrastructure changes (food grown thousands of miles away instead of in the local farm)

And the grid, an area I worked in for about 10 years. The grid is an archaic design that needs to go away. It is vulnerable to natural and terrorist attacks. Outages are common. It is NOT a reliable source of energy. It should be replaced with a distributed generation system (which was being investigated by APS and Universities for a long time), which I predict the EV movement into both civilian population and industry will drive. Technology for distributed generation is advancing. I have NO idea what/which will win. A few examples are fuel cells for the home (available in commercial production today), solar panels and storage batteries for the home (available in commercial distribution today), micro-nuclear plants in the home (in development), hydrogen (in development, some commercial products available today), geothermal and hydro (both available today), and wind (available today). Most are possible today, most are not yet practical. But, I can assure you power companies a not happy about the potential of losing their monopolies. And are doing their best to pass legislation, buy politicians, and have disinformation campaigns to denigrate those alternatives.

Uh, no, I didn't say FARMERS are chomping at the bits, I said large corporations, including the massive food industry, are interested only in the bottom line and don't care what engine is in the tractors and factories. I did say, John Deere, a sort of a not small name in that field is offering an electric drivetrain soon/now?

I did say trucking companies are "chomping at the bit" or more accurately - DROOLING to get EVs with FSD. And they are. The cost-saving there is massive. Kenworth and Freightliner are already committed to (are supplying?) electric drive trains.

Anyway, I agree, TODAY the grid will not support 300 million EVs on the road (the number of ICE vehicles registered in this country.) The good news is that TODAY's EV production is at (best case) a couple million per year. So, we have at least decades (your estimate) to "Fix" the infrastructure. Other countries are "fixing" it much faster than the US. I will leave it to the reader to noodle out WHY the US instead of leading the world in this area of new tech growth is, in fact, lagging behind the rest of the world.

And the difference between my post and the "imagine the cost" post, is I provided a rather lengthy discussion of WHY I think this is the direction of the future of EVs. And my predictions are based on what the various industries are saying and doing.

I guess the alternative to market driving the evolution of EV is that some cabal is FORCING people to buy Teslas. hmmm. maybe, maybe movies are inserting subliminal suggestions in-between frames. I heard "a lot of people saying" Musk has developed technology to compel people to buy Tesla's even if they don't want them.

And of course, my references to police departments are TRUE, my reference to pent-up demand for OTR Tractors is TRUE, and my reference to every Tesla owner loving their cars and gushing about savings is TRUE. So, for my "Imagine" there is some basis.

Thank you for your interesting post. It was a good rebuttal and made me think about what I had said and how I can improve my position.

BTW, the 1908 Model T was about $900 (about $30,000 in today's dollars) by 1915 that price was reduced to about $300 or $10,000 in today's dollars. Gasoline was not produced intentionally, it was a waste product of making kerosene. And anyone that wanted it bought it in 5-gallon cans at the local hardware stores. By 1920 there were federally funded concrete highways (very hard on horse hooves, the primary means of transportation for most of the middle and lower class at that time) and a ubiquitous network of "gasoline stations". Many were at that time still pumping the gas into a can and then pouring it into the car. Many people were filling 55-gallon cans and taking them home on their horse-drawn wagons to fuel the gas-powered cars.

There was a MASSIVE infrastructure change required. We invested almost countless trillions of today's dollars in infrastructure.

Today, we can't even pass a bill to fix leaky water pipes and falling down bridges around the country, so I expect the infrastructure changes required for EVs will be slower - here in the US. On that, I agree with you. Our current infrastructure can't deal with the massive adoption of EVs. But, I have faith in our predatory capitalism system. Once big business sees there is more profit in EVs Congress will suddenly "see the light" and pass massive infrastructure research and development projects which will lead to massive new good-paying jobs. And all of a sudden the ney sayers will start cheering. Cats and dogs will start sleeping together, and birds will sing, the sun will shine and ... well you get the idea.

But, that is my "dream". I hope to live long enough to see how it really turns out.

(OH and compare the Atomic Car to the Model T - AC, radio, power windows, roof, windows longer range, etc. - VASSTLY better)

Then why did you try to compare the Model T to the Atomic car?

MLK aside, a dream is a wish your heart makes...

[Keefelane66]

I repeat watch Who Killed the Electric Car.
who killed the electric car - Google Search

[MartinSE]

Originally Posted by JMintzer

Then why did you try to compare the Model T to the Atomic car?

MLK aside, a dream is a wish your heart makes...

I was just thinking about how the Model T was so admired and it was a really basic thing, that sold like hot cakes (why do hot cakes sell so well?) And you mentioned the Atomic Car (you brought it up) as a toy, and it being one of the first street legal almost real EVs (sot of like the Model T was in its day) and yet, it is MUCH more of a practical car than the Model T was. I agree, for it's time the Model T was a serious invention, unlike the Atomic Car which might be best described as "dumbing down" of a average car. But, I don't agree it is a toy. For someone working two less than minimum wage jobs supporting a husband and three kids, the Atomic car is a very viable option from a cost performance perspective. Might be a toy for you and me.

Agree on dreams...

[MartinSE]

Originally Posted by Keefelane66

I repeat watch Who Killed the Electric Car.
who killed the electric car - Google Search

I don't know what I am supposed to gain from a 2006 documentary. This may come as surprise, but that was after Tesla was founded. Guess they got Tesla wrong - hmm. Maybe you should look into the financing of that particular documentary. You might find it was funded by either OIL or GM/Ford.

That was, as I mentioned previously, "common knowledge" said about Tesla. Guess what Tesla is still here, I will go so far as to say EVERY auto manufacture in the world has committed to or is delivering EVs. So, I can look at a 2006 documentary about why EVs will/did fail, or I can look at what is happening to day, and say, yup, that was another person with an opinion about how MUSK could not do what they said he couldn't do.

[JMintzer]

Originally Posted by MartinSE

I was just thinking about how the Model T was so admired and it was a really basic thing, that sold like hot cakes (why do hot cakes sell so well?) And you mentioned the Atomic Car (you brought it up) as a toy, and it being one of the first street legal almost real EVs (sot of like the Model T was in its day) and yet, it is MUCH more of a practical car than the Model T was. I agree, for it's time the Model T was a serious invention, unlike the Atomic Car which might be best described as "dumbing down" of a average car. But, I don't agree it is a toy. For someone working two less than minimum wage jobs supporting a husband and three kids, the Atomic car is a very viable option from a cost performance perspective. Might be a toy for you and me.

Agree on dreams...

Sorry, but YOU brought up the Atomic Car in post #35...

I only used it in response to YOUR post...

It's top speed is only 20 mph, so it's useless in many settings.

And you really think you can fit a family of 5 in an Atomic car?

Have you ever been in one? One fart and you'll blow out the windows!

[JMintzer]

Originally Posted by MartinSE

I don't know what I am supposed to gain from a 2006 documentary. This may come as surprise, but that was after Tesla was founded. Guess they got Tesla wrong - hmm. Maybe you should look into the financing of that particular documentary. You might find it was funded by either OIL or GM/Ford.

That was, as I mentioned previously, "common knowledge" said about Tesla. Guess what Tesla is still here, I will go so far as to say EVERY auto manufacture in the world has committed to or is delivering EVs. So, I can look at a 2006 documentary about why EVs will/did fail, or I can look at what is happening to day, and say, yup, that was another person with an opinion about how MUSK could not do what they said he couldn't do.

Due to CAFE MANDATES, car manufacturers MUST produce electric vehicles to meet said mandates.

Just like all of the mini economy boxes nobody wanted in the past, which sat, rotting at the ports, they were only produced to get the milage average up...

[biker1]

I saw some recent estimates of the incremental amount of electrical power needed if all cars were instantaneously replaced with EVs (I don't believe it included trucks). The amount was surprising small - about a 30% increase would be needed. This is encouraging as this is not an insurmountable amount and there is time (about 20 years) to ramp up electrical production. I say about 20 years because the transition will be slow as the average age of cars today is about 12 years and gas cars will still be produced 10 years from now. The bad news is that electrical production has been constant for the last decade at about 4T kWh.

Originally Posted by JMintzer

Yet you ignore that the electric grid cannot support all of these new EVs. Yes, in time, maybe they will, but that is DECADES in the future, if ever at all...

[MartinSE]

Originally Posted by JMintzer

Sorry, but YOU brought up the Atomic Car in post #35...

I only used it in response to YOUR post...

It's top speed is only 20 mph, so it's useless in many settings.

And you really think you can fit a family of 5 in an Atomic car?

Have you ever been in one? One fart and you'll blow out the windows!

well let's see. I will accept I brought it up first, I don't recall now.

Actually, I see many references to the street legal version being capable of up to 35.

I think the use cases I mentioned going to work, going to shop, etc, typical daily use case for MOST Americans, only requires occupancy of 1 or 2.

Farting in any enclosed car with the windows closed is a bad idea. Some have activated charcoal, Tesla's have a biohazard filtration - how many ICE cars have biohazard protection built in? LOL!

I clearly stated it in no way competed with even economy cars, like Toyota Yaris on features, that it was in fact very limited. But, I do believe there is a sizable market from college students, to poor working class, and more for a not frills basic mode of transportation.

I owned about the most basic car available - 1970 VW Beetle - and loved it.