[Stu from NYC]

Originally Posted by OrangeBlossomBaby

Here's a link: The US Strategic National Stockpile Ventilators in Coronavirus Disease 2019 - PMC

The layman's takeaway: the government, in early 2020 (previous administration) ordered 200,000 ventilators. Unfortunately, the people ordering them, didn't clearly understand that different types of machines are made to handle different types of illness, and they just said "hey make whatever, and lots."

But around half of them were useless with COVID. And so - there's a stockpile of unused, unneeded ventilators now - even though there was a shortage of ventilators that could actually help with the first wave of the COVID crisis.

Many years ago was a purchasing manager for a factory. A buyer who has no clue what they are buying and what it will be used for will not last in private industry.

[OrangeBlossomBaby]

Originally Posted by Stu from NYC

Many years ago was a purchasing manager for a factory. A buyer who has no clue what they are buying and what it will be used for will not last in private industry.

Totally agree. But that's what happens when you don't listen to the experts who you pay to understand this stuff, and throw rolls of paper towels into the crowd instead.

[mraines]

Originally Posted by ThirdOfFive

I see doc in November and will get the flu shot then. Pass on the COVID.

Just curious, why are you getting a flu shot and not Covid?

[xcaligirl]

Originally Posted by OrangeBlossomBaby

Unfortunately I need to wait a bit before getting the flu and COVID shots, because I'm currently recovering from surgery to remove a malignant melanoma and taking doxycycline as an infection-preventative. I'll check with the dermatologist tomorrow and ask how long after the antibiotics are done, can I get vaccinated.

I'd also like to go back to donating blood. Skin cancer sucks, folks.

I agree that it does suck!! My husband is close to being the 'poster child' for skin cancer. He's had it every year or 6 months since we've been married (43 years). Yes, he has MOHs, beam treatment, etc and is very careful for a month or so and then goes back to old habits. Frustrating but he does bring on some or most of the skin cancer himself. Take care of yourself and hoping for a quick recovery! So happy they found it in time.

[JMintzer]

Originally Posted by OrangeBlossomBaby

Here's a link: The US Strategic National Stockpile Ventilators in Coronavirus Disease 2019 - PMC

The layman's takeaway: the government, in early 2020 (previous administration) ordered 200,000 ventilators. Unfortunately, the people ordering them, didn't clearly understand that different types of machines are made to handle different types of illness, and they just said "hey make whatever, and lots."

But around half of them were useless with COVID. And so - there's a stockpile of unused, unneeded ventilators now - even though there was a shortage of ventilators that could actually help with the first wave of the COVID crisis.

Thank you. Your link proves what I said. There was a shortage in 2019 and 2020... But the orders started decreasing in the summer of 2020...

And of course, they don't mention that the use of ventilators waned early on in the pandemic...

Oh wait, you'll never see this reply...

[JMintzer]

Originally Posted by Stu from NYC

Many years ago was a purchasing manager for a factory. A buyer who has no clue what they are buying and what it will be used for will not last in private industry.

Well, it is the Federal Government, so... All bets are off!

[JMintzer]

Originally Posted by OrangeBlossomBaby

Totally agree. But that's what happens when you don't listen to the experts who you pay to understand this stuff, and throw rolls of paper towels into the crowd instead.

Nice political dig...

[Bill14564]

Originally Posted by JMintzer

Thank you. Your link proves what I said. There was a shortage in 2019 and 2020... But the orders started decreasing in the summer of 2020...

And of course, they don't mention that the use of ventilators waned early on in the pandemic...

Oh wait, you'll never see this reply...

Did the use wane during the huge spikes in hospitalizations in the winter of 2020, spring of 2021, and winter 2021 into 2022 or after? The links criticizing the surplus were all created in summer 2020, prior to these spikes.

(I would comment on the articles I have found but links are still hard to format)

What is the dispute here anyway; is it that more than enough ventilators were acquired? There were. I believe the ventilator issue arose when someone suggested that while some portion of the 1.6M excess deaths were attributable to Covid (I believe >80% are), some/many/most of those were *caused* by ventilator use. I have come across no evidence of that.

[OrangeBlossomBaby]

Originally Posted by Bill14564

Did the use wane during the huge spikes in hospitalizations in the winter of 2020, spring of 2021, and winter 2021 into 2022 or after? The links criticizing the surplus were all created in summer 2020, prior to these spikes.

(I would comment on the articles I have found but links are still hard to format)

What is the dispute here anyway; is it that more than enough ventilators were acquired? There were. I believe the ventilator issue arose when someone suggested that while some portion of the 1.6M excess deaths were attributable to Covid (I believe >80% are), some/many/most of those were *caused* by ventilator use. I have come across no evidence of that.

I believe some people are complaining that there was a surplus ordered, however they were left abandoned and unused, thereby creating a shortage.

Thing is, half of the ones ordered, were not built to handle the severity of COVID-19. And so - that half went unused, and abandoned in warehouses.

[JMintzer]

Originally Posted by Bill14564

Did the use wane during the huge spikes in hospitalizations in the winter of 2020, spring of 2021, and winter 2021 into 2022 or after? The links criticizing the surplus were all created in summer 2020, prior to these spikes.

(I would comment on the articles I have found but links are still hard to format)

What is the dispute here anyway; is it that more than enough ventilators were acquired? There were. I believe the ventilator issue arose when someone suggested that while some portion of the 1.6M excess deaths were attributable to Covid (I believe >80% are), some/many/most of those were *caused* by ventilator use. I have come across no evidence of that.

Yes, they had stopped using the ventilators by then, as they realized they were doing more harm than good (hence the link I posted and that you complained about...)

And please, where do you get your ">80%" number? Thin air?

[JMintzer]

Originally Posted by OrangeBlossomBaby

I believe some people are complaining that there was a surplus ordered, however they were left abandoned and unused, thereby creating a shortage.

Thing is, half of the ones ordered, were not built to handle the severity of COVID-19. And so - that half went unused, and abandoned in warehouses.

Nonsense... The initial "shortage" was due to many states letting their old emergency supply stocks rot on the shelves and sit there past their expiration date.

It had zero to do with the wrong ones being ordered/manufactured...

The surplus had everything to do with the docs realizing that ventilators were not the panacea they initially thought, and were doing more harm than good...

[Bill14564]

Originally Posted by JMintzer

Yes, they had stopped using the ventilators by then, as they realized they were doing more harm than good (hence the link I posted and that you complained about...)

And please, where do you get your ">80%" number? Thin air?

- 80% matches the CDC count
- 20% matches a gross extrapolation based on a maximum estimate of deaths due to delayed treatment of one type of cancer
- Yeah, thin air


Stopped using ventilators after April 2020?! I would like to see any evidence of that! And yes, I will go back and find the Feb 2022 article about the ventilator shortage being finally over