Automakers loan, paid in full, fact check proves this, another example of government success!

Thank you so much for correcting me. Important stuff.

Bottom line, it began with one country from 13 states, but has morphed into representing all heritages.

I am sure I am not the first that you had to correct. For me, personally, it represents a country that is a blend of all colors, all religions , all heritages all coming together as one.

That is what I fought for, and for what so many have died for. It has changed recently, and I worry more about that than I do about how I might type it, but thanks for correcting me.

And the banks....

"In total, the government has realized a $116B profit as of October 2, 2019."

That profit from nterest earned.

https://projects.propublica.org/bailout/

Difference is that this was done TOGETHER

I sure hope that free medical for all and free education for all and free food or all, and free housing for all and free all for all NEVER COMES. That is the definition of socialism and look how that is FAILING all around the globe!

Like nearly all here in TV, I have worked hard and did without MANY things throughout my life. I put away for my retirement. I did without, and went to bed hungry after working hard every day for many years. I paid my dues, while raising my children, giving them the best I could while doing without for myself.

There is no such thing as a “free lunch”. This is how we keep our freedom from an overpowering government. Don’t be fooled into thinking they have YOUR best interest in mind. They (the government) are going to give to THEMSELVES first.

Dentistry’s have their own insurance coverage, if you policy covers dental most likely you pay higher premiums. Otherwise you have buy dental insurance and with most insurance it’s a rip off cause the fine print clauses won’t pay for anything expensive until you’ve paid double or triple for that procedure.

Where in this wide wide world did you ever come up with such fears ?

From where ?

Glad you are smart, maybe you can explain.......
----------

"The bottom line: cumulatively from 2010 to 2017 the ACA reduced health care spending a total of $2.3 trillion."

"In 2017 alone, health expenditures were $650 billion lower than projected, and kept health care spending under 18 percent of GDP — basically a tad over where it was in 2010 when the ACA was passed. It did all of this while expanding health coverage to more than 20 million previously uninsured Americans.

Compared to the 2010 projections, the government’s Medicare bill in 2017 was 10 percent ($70 billion) less, and spending for Medicaid and the Children’s Health Insurance Program was a whopping $250 billion below expectations (partially — but only partially — due to the failure of some states to expand the program). The actuary had predicted in 2010 that employer-sponsored insurance would cost $1.21 trillion in 2017, but it came in at $1.04 trillion, a difference of $170 billion for that year.

Put another way, health care spending in 2017 was $2,000 less per person than it was projected to be. And for the 176 million Americans who have private employer-sponsored insurance, their lower premiums averaged just under $1,000 per person."

The Affordable Care Act has saved billions in health care costs - STAT
-------------------
These are government numbers and confirmed

Guess I need explained how it saved so much, yet is so horrible, and "socialist".

Compared to....oh, there is nothing to compare it to.....sorry. For the record, and you certainly can check my posts (I have been here that long) to see how I opposed it. Maybe still might but it is working and no other plan exists.

There is much to compare to in the ACA and it is a poorly thought out plan. Ask the people who lost their health care coverage from their employers and along with the loss of income due to the premiums for poor coverage and large co-pays. Costs should be down, many people are now not seeking necessary services and tests because the expense to them is exorbitant with deductibles, co-pays and non-covered services.

Talk to the people who are under that coverage and get the real feedback.

This was the original question from our OP.

I understand it is a hot topic. It Seems like a Yes or No QUESTION. I believe without pointing anyone out specifically which is against the rules of our Forum that Healthcare of some sort is needed immediately by somebody who has the need to be a "Teacher"!

My answer to the OP is a Simple No Way Jack It'll NEVER happen. EVER!

Keep it Simple, NOT HAPPENING! Thank you very much!

No, I do not need to talk to anyone.

Those elected officials should be talking to each other to fix something that does save health costs, but needs work

Instead, we erase it, one piece at a time just for so..THAT WILL cause oroblems

Some don't care to discuss health care....not sure why, but keep it simple Jack...whomever that is...
READ, UNDRSTAND, AND KNOW.

Flippant remarks re for those who do not understand, especially do not understand how people suffer as our leaders play games with their healthcare.....offer no positivity, just "cracks".

I feel for so many who have been caught up in a web of "leaders" trying to top each other, rather than trying to help.

Any remarks aimed at a teacher are, not surprisingly, mistimed. I know very little except I understand misinformation when I see it. If suggesting people read and not be subject to "stories" is an attempt to teach...I plead guilty. I plead guilty to wanting to be fully informed on such a vital subject. It does not affect me, but I have seen enough human suffering, and here we have something to fix, but instead get caught up in games and rods.

That information is from when that program was established and has nothing to do with the last 4 years. It was weak and unpopular from the get go.

Even a small amount of intellectual curiosity and doing a modicum of research, will show many of the same arguments against universal or single-payer health care...as there was against establishing Social Security (and later medicare).

So how many of you want to see SS/medicare...go away now? :oops:

Although I doubt I will ever see it, I hope that my children/grandchildren/great-grandchildren's healthcare will eventually become a priority for our country...and a workable system will eventually be established.

I'm pretty sure that no one will ever catch up to us in military spending (since we outspend the NEXT 7 COUNTRIES COMBINED)... so why shouldn't some of that money go toward the health benefit of our fellow American citizens (especially our neglected veterans)? :ohdear:

Click Here

Sorry, the info is current, and yes it is now been watered down, but my point is tat it worked....why scrap it without trying to adjust, and leave so many in the dark.

Obamacare is a terrible and costly mess rammed through by the then dominate party without even being read much less debated. It needs to be completely dismantled as soon as practicable.

How Obamacare Became Law - Brian Sussman

'''Unconstitutional''' ObamaCare is deeply flawed, and it'''s time to do away with it | Fox News

As a poster who tried to stop the conversation said "where are your links to support your statement " ?

The data I supplied was from our government....I did not make it up.

You are quite welcome, and thank you for your service.
Words in there true context mean a lot, words out of context, or "rearranged", as is all too often done, by ALL media, groups or persons, to suite an agenda, is a dangerous thing.
That is why I corrected you.
I served also so don't think you are the only one.
Steve

I think my only problem with your post is he implication that "rearranging", "ignoring context" ....all forms of mashing truth is reserved for media types.

You and I both know that's not true.

I KNOW about those who serve, and I do not even mention much about myself, but sometimes it simply demonstrates that you have "Been there" and get it. So many, and the count seems to be increasing have forgotten exactly what they stood for and why. We served to move forwRd the American ideal of integrity, truth in serving, and respect. Thanks for your joining those who have served and honored.

Hey Cold, I would have loved to opt out of SS & Medicare. Guarantee I could have done a million times better with my money. Got to retire early and have been on my own dime for healthcare for 12 years. Never calculated SS in my retirement plans so when it goes belly up I will not miss it.

HEALTHCARE
Traveled and lived in 6 different countries on their economies paying our own way and found good and bad in their healthcare systems. But never found one that was free and that if you wanted care in any decent length of time you bought outside coverage. Close friends in each of these country to this day buy upped coverage to lessen delay time and get into certain Dr's and facilities.

As far as the AHCA there is good and bad in there also, just as private insurance has many issues. In AHCA the deductibles are so high that those that do have insurance from the act see no benefit. It was suppose to be portable, state to state, it is not. When we came to Fl we had to apply at BCBS, which we already had and got less coverage for more cost. Also wife has a fantastic maternity plan, lord help me if we need that. On the other side the powers that be in congress spent our money for 6 or 7 yrs voting over and over to repeal something they had about as much chance of repealing as seeing an elephant fly. Then when they had the ability to fix/repeal they had nothing on the plate to present.

This is a highly complicated and far reaching issue with no easy answers. I still want the first thing done is find out and stop the $60 billion in fraud and waste. Stop the bleeding then look for ways to heal the patient. Wheww that was tiring, it is time for The Villages favorite sport, HAPPY HOUR!!!!:MOJE_whot:

as you accurately stated the "decrease" was compared to a 2010 government ESTIMATE that turned out to be wildly inaccurate. Don't you just hate facts.

"reserved for media types"?

Read my post again, I never said that.
This is what I said;

"Words in there true context mean a lot, words out of context, or "rearranged", as is all too often done, by ALL media, groups or persons, to suite an agenda, is a dangerous thing."
Steve

Really, in those days as I recall, the cost was estimated from zero to more money than exists.

I was one from the beginning who was alarmed at the impact on our deficit. I even used the word I have been criticizing.....socialist. I was really upset about the entire thing.

As much negativity as we see here now alarms me. I was happy to see the savings in healthcare costs that we had. THAT was the goal.

Watching the dismantling of something that did actually work, REALLY benefited so many people, and actually reduce the deficit is really sad because those doing that dismantling are doing it in a very mean spirited way. No reason given......just don't like the guy who got it do, so hurting others seems to be just shrapnel because those folks have increased the deficit so much without even offering help to those who need it.

But, to your point, new things, new estimates and they were really off,although you don't hear anyone talk about that. Might think people deserve good news.

Sorry if I misunderstood. I might be a bit sensitive because of the attacks on the media, which I think are obscene. Reading today about a well known broadcaster who denies saying things, as a video of him saying it PRECISELY as reported runs on the screen.

Just dangerous stuff.

Sorry if I offended you

I'm not that easily offended, but apology(s) accepted.
Steve

My original post did not BLAME anyone. It pointed out that our country faces different economic stresses from immigration that other countries do. Canada has a form of universal coverage but they do not provide coverage for people who are in the country illegally. I'm sure that is the same in many if not all of the other countries who have "free" healthcare. Instead of recognizing there might be differences, you immediately accused me of blaming illegals for problems. The fact is we're not like the other countries. Our economy is much more robust for starters. Maybe that's because we don't overburden our taxpayers with universal healthcare.

I m dumb on this. Can you provide more details on healthcare coverage for illegal immigrants in the US ?

I accuse you of nothing, but not that smart......I apparently misunderstood.

I was not aware of the healthcare coverage for illegals, and trust you will provide me with some reading material.

Thanks

Many countries and their peoples like many of us here do not support providing a health care system for those who are in the country illegally....taking up residence illegally.

I do not recall anyone on this forum ever supporting what you suggest.

Poster said we already have healthcare for illegal immigrants and I simply asked for more details because I was not aware that illegal immigrants could get healthcare.

Of course, all the savings from ACA would be under stress but that savings seems to be going away anyway.

You misread my post...not supporting, simply wondering where someone felt it existed

The ACA was attacked by Republicans, even though it was once proposed by a conservative think tank.

Marco Rubio was instrumental in helping to undermind it. Just the facts, as I've seen them. No political agenda here, as I don't believe in political parties. Call me a George Washington patriot.

Marco Rubio Quietly Undermines Affordable Care Act - The New York Times

Just one example;

• Illegal aliens can obtain welfare benefits such as Medicaid and food stamps on behalf of their U.S.-born children. Many of the welfare costs associated with illegal immigration, therefore, are due to the Executive Branch’s current (2015) interpretation of the 14th Amendment’s Citizenship Clause. Welfare Use by Immigrant Households with Children | Center for Immigration Studies

Birthright Citizenship Fact Sheet | NumbersUSA

Now that one link, immigrant welfare use, keeps stating "immigrants" and leave out the "illegal"'

Steve

Medicaid money is used to fund free clinics and other public health services. I think illegals are technically not supposed to use these services, but I don't think they are screened out. Also, I believe Federal and State money is used to treat illegals in hospital emergency rooms.

It’s not difficult to find info regarding illegal health care coverage particularly if one is accustomed to performing online researches. Forbes has an excellent synopsis as to how American citizens in 2017 alone financed healthcare for illegals, $18.5 billion. One can only imagine what those costs are now.

Speak to professionals covering ER’s/trauma centers about healthcare for non-citizens. They can’t provide details but the eye rolls are all telling and they will tell you those patients are not paying. The current media wouldn’t miss a chance to tell you instantly if a runny nose or a booboo wasn’t treated. They appear to have better medical care available than most.

"on behalf of their U.S.-born children."

Most posters overlook this and take the generalized way.

Legally these children are US citizens !

BUT still no illegal immigrants are purchasing health insurance for themselves.

Chris Conover makes some good points, none of which is new and all should be discussed and validated....not that he lied buy he took some liberties with some stats for sure.

For those who are interested in reading...here is the link and it is from early 2018.

How American Citizens Finance $18.5 Billion In Health Care For Unauthorized Immigrants

Now, lets be clear. I am not, nor never was advocating anything. There is so much junk information and actual lies being circulated because nobody talks to each other.

You posted this line to which I responded...."Canada has a form of universal coverage but they do not provide coverage for people who are in the country illegally. I'm sure that is the same in many if not all of the other countries who have "free" healthcare."


You "implication" and statement is not true at all as related to our country. This is what my objection is.....people simply say stuff with no regard to as if it were true.

The problem is that nobody knows how many or who are not legally in the country. And, in most situations, you can't even ask for proof of legality. So, how can anyone claim to know how much or how little money is spent on illegals for health care or for anything else?

I surely cannot speak to details, but from the little I do see, it appears that ICE is pretty aggressive in pursuing.

But directly to your point, what you say is true and has been for many years....it is not recent, and all the actions we are taking is making it worse than ever.

I keep beating what I suppose is a dead horse, but NOTHING.....not one single thing will be done as lot as we "proclaim" things and we are not trusted, and both seem to be getting worse. We listen to lobbyists more now than we did before draining the swamp. The divide is far wider than ever which means it will take longer to decrease and be more difficult.

From the GW Bush Presidential Center....

"AMERICA IS STRENGTHENED BY THE CONTRIBUTIONS MADE BY IMMIGRANTS. FOR THE U.S. ECONOMY TO FLOURISH TO ITS FULL POTENTIAL, OUTDATED IMMIGRATION POLICY MUST BE MODERNIZED."

A Nation Built by Immigrants | Bush Center

Does any of the current actions seem like we are modernizing anything or taking a gigantic step backward.

Exactly! God bless the immigrants who come to this country per the USA guidelines and laws. Who has a problem with them? We need and welcome them to become American citizens.

The elephant in the room is the mass illegal entry of citizens of foreign countries, Mexico primarily, sneaking into the USA and overwhelming the resources of this country. The laws concerned birthright citizenship are also way over due for change.

Is Washington DC at all aware of the frustration that the general population has from their refusal to address this issue? Fix immigration! Thus, more money to fix health care for the American people.

I'm pretty sure North Korea and Venezuela also offer free health care for all.

Those 32 countries that have so-called universal health care only represent 16% of all the countries in the world.