[blueash]

Originally Posted by karostay

Ever buy fuel or alcohol in Canada ? 4 times Us price
nothings free all has cost

Using GasBuddy:
Gasoline Niagara Falls Canada 1.10/liter = 4.20 C$/USGal or 3.20 US dollars per US gallon
Niagara Falls US 2.60/gal
3.2 is NOT 4 times 2.6

Alcohol prices are harder to compare as it depends of beer vs wine vs spirits etc. But I found this:

Alcohol prices in Canada are approximately twice as expensive as in the United States. The sole reason for this price difference is that Provincial Governments regulate minimum prices and taxes on alcohol.

24 cans of Bud in Quebec in 2019 costs abt 21 USD Looks like that same item is 19 USD at Walmart


Again not 4 times the cost. Not even close.

[JGVillages]

Whatever the government estimates the cost of Medicare for All, free college, or any other programs they wish to be in charge of you can be sure, as their past and present performance proves, the costs will be nowhere what they estimate, and the efficiencies necessary to keep performance in line will be non existent. Don’t drink the Kool-Aide they are offering.

[blueash]

Originally Posted by manaboutown

I wonder why Mick didn't get his heart surgery done in London rather than in NYC? It would have been "free". Mick Jagger Is '''Feeling Much Better Now''' Post-Heart Surgery | PEOPLE.com

And I'm sure you already know the answer to your question. For the wealthiest of the wealthy, for the 1% and the 0.1% the very best health care in the world is here. So if cost is absolutely not a concern to the health care consumer, come here and spend a lot of money for a likely very good outcome. Mick didn't fly here on Spirit airlines in a middle seat in his Walmart jeans either. No one is arguing that the quality of care in the US for those with excellent insurance and no problems with copays and coinsurance and out of pocket deductibles is very good. The discussion about whether we need to rework our health care payment system is about regular Americans with regular jobs and mortgages for whom the copays and the deductibles and the coinsurance are ruinous.
Those living in the Villages are not typical Americans. You are getting your health care for very low cost. You are very wealthy with retirement savings, pensions, large IRAs etc.
Most Americans, yes most, do not have enough savings to cover a $1,000 emergency.

[graciegirl]

Originally Posted by blueash

And I'm sure you already know the answer to your question. For the wealthiest of the wealthy, for the 1% and the 0.1% the very best health care in the world is here. So if cost is absolutely not a concern to the health care consumer, come here and spend a lot of money for a likely very good outcome. Mick didn't fly here on Spirit airlines in a middle seat in his Walmart jeans either. No one is arguing that the quality of care in the US for those with excellent insurance and no problems with copays and coinsurance and out of pocket deductibles is very good. The discussion about whether we need to rework our health care payment system is about regular Americans with regular jobs and mortgages for whom the copays and the deductibles and the coinsurance are ruinous.
Those living in the Villages are not typical Americans. You are getting your health care for very low cost. You are very wealthy with retirement savings, pensions, large IRAs etc.
Most Americans, yes most, do not have enough savings to cover a $1,000 emergency.

I think the majority of people living in The Villages are far from well off. I think they have carefully saved and carefully planned and stringently sacrificed to live here. There are indeed wealthy people living here as well. One of the things I like most about this place is that no one seems concerned about how much money other people have or don't have.

There are all kinds of fairy tales about socialized medicine and education in this world. For instance, College education is free in Austria, IF you are smart enough to get in.

Admission requirements for studies at university in Austria

[villagesglfr1]

Will not happen in this generation. Why, the focus is on the wrong side of the equation. Health Insurance is expensive because health care costs are expensive. Those " Other " Countries who have Free health Care also have taxes at 50 % or higher. most cases medical school is free and Drs are paid a set salary. The foundation of those health care systems are far different then graduating with Medical School debt, average is near $500,000, paying malpractice insurance to survive in an aggressive Litigious USA, a For profit system based largely on a fee for service, medical costs are not transparent, predictable, consistent or challenged by common market forces of competition. The list goes on for the cost of health care that is out of control. Lastly, Big Pharma, Big Hospital, Big Dr Lobbyist will buy the votes needed to bury any changes that will effect $$$$$. What Say You Rick Scott ?? Stay Healthy !

[npwalters]

Here is the fact that most people don't consider when discussing universal health care. It works - sort of- in countries that have a population in which most adults are productive and pay their version of income tax and (usually) a value added tax.

I cant work in the US where only about half of the citizens actually pay income tax and there is no VAT. There just aren't enough rich folks around to pay the cost. Latest estimate from Sen Warren is 57 Trillion over 10 years that she claims will be paid by the rich and corporations.

[jebartle]

Originally Posted by blueash

And I'm sure you already know the answer to your question. For the wealthiest of the wealthy, for the 1% and the 0.1% the very best health care in the world is here. So if cost is absolutely not a concern to the health care consumer, come here and spend a lot of money for a likely very good outcome. Mick didn't fly here on Spirit airlines in a middle seat in his Walmart jeans either. No one is arguing that the quality of care in the US for those with excellent insurance and no problems with copays and coinsurance and out of pocket deductibles is very good. The discussion about whether we need to rework our health care payment system is about regular Americans with regular jobs and mortgages for whom the copays and the deductibles and the coinsurance are ruinous.
Those living in the Villages are not typical Americans. You are getting your health care for very low cost. You are very wealthy with retirement savings, pensions, large IRAs etc.
Most Americans, yes most, do not have enough savings to cover a $1,000 emergency.

And in addition, there are those with pre-existing conditions with little or no insurance, until ACA was introduced, but those benefits have dwindled as we speak!

[perrjojo]

Why don’t we make more doctors? 12 years to graduate high school. 4 years of medical school 2 to 4 years residency and 2 years internship. 20-22 years of education, go into debt at least $100,000 to open an office and that pay outrageous malpractice insurance...I could go.

[jebartle]

Originally Posted by villagesglfr1

Will not happen in this generation. Why, the focus is on the wrong side of the equation. Health Insurance is expensive because health care costs are expensive. Those " Other " Countries who have Free health Care also have taxes at 50 % or higher. most cases medical school is free and Drs are paid a set salary. The foundation of those health care systems are far different then graduating with Medical School debt, average is near $500,000, paying malpractice insurance to survive in an aggressive Litigious USA, a For profit system based largely on a fee for service, medical costs are not transparent, predictable, consistent or challenged by common market forces of competition. The list goes on for the cost of health care that is out of control. Lastly, Big Pharma, Big Hospital, Big Dr Lobbyist will buy the votes needed to bury any changes that will effect $$$$$. What Say You Rick Scott ?? Stay Healthy !

[manaboutown]

Medical malpractice insurance premiums are ridiculously high in the US which of course dramatically drives up the costs of medical care for which the consumer ultimately pays. Thank the tort bar. Malpractice awards are capped at reasonable sums in most countries.

[Number 10 GI]

Originally Posted by jebartle

Australia, Germany, France, Canada, UK, Russia to name a few. Will it ever happen in US?

I don't know where you got the information that Germany has universal healthcare but it is incorrect. My wife was born in Germany and all her family live there. In Germany if you work you are required to buy healthcare insurance, it is deducted from your pay. You can select the level of coverage and deductibles but there is a difference in premiums depending on coverage. The higher the coverage and lower the deductibles the higher the premium. If someone is unemployed, indigent or disabled there is health care for those people provided by the government. Many years ago it used to be there was universal "free" medical care in Germany but it became too expensive and laws were changed to require working people to buy insurance.
I've posted this before, my brother-in-law pays 50% taxes on his annual income, there is a VAT of 20% on everything you purchase, gasoline is close to $7 a gallon, and he also has to pay an income tax at the end of the year.
Don't believe everything you read on the internet.

[Number 10 GI]

Originally Posted by blueash

And I'm sure you already know the answer to your question. For the wealthiest of the wealthy, for the 1% and the 0.1% the very best health care in the world is here. So if cost is absolutely not a concern to the health care consumer, come here and spend a lot of money for a likely very good outcome. Mick didn't fly here on Spirit airlines in a middle seat in his Walmart jeans either. No one is arguing that the quality of care in the US for those with excellent insurance and no problems with copays and coinsurance and out of pocket deductibles is very good. The discussion about whether we need to rework our health care payment system is about regular Americans with regular jobs and mortgages for whom the copays and the deductibles and the coinsurance are ruinous.
Those living in the Villages are not typical Americans. You are getting your health care for very low cost. You are very wealthy with retirement savings, pensions, large IRAs etc.
Most Americans, yes most, do not have enough savings to cover a $1,000 emergency.

Based on what you said universal healthcare in the UK is inferior to the system in the US. Doesn't say much for the idea of universal healthcare if it can't provide top level medical care. I had coronary artery by-pass surgery at Valderbilt Hospital in Nashville which is a nationally recognized leader in cardiac care. I couldn't pay Mick Jager's dry cleaning bill but I received top notch care. Is our system perfect, no, but neither is theirs.

[Number 10 GI]

Originally Posted by Ben Franklin

I have several friends living in Canada, France and The UK. I have spoken to each one of them about their system, and they love it. Their systems are more of a social democracy, and as I understand it, they are still market based. Yes, they pay higher taxes, but I wonder if anyone did a cost comparison between the amount of taxes paid vs. the cost of insurance. Just yesterday I had to pay $100 for a generic drug, because of the donut hole system. And it seems most dentists don't take insurance, or they don't take UHC insurance, and so we just had to pay over $700 for an initial visit.

My wife has spoke with a few Canadian citizens and they said their medical system worked great, if you were healthy and young. For older, sicker people it wasn't so great. For expensive diagnostic tests such as CAT scans, MRI, and other similar tests there is a waiting period. A person can't just get those tests done the next day like here. If you are really at risk in the doctor's opinion a patient can have the test done earlier, but it requires the doctor to make a judgement call as to how urgent it needs to be done. Then that is then reviewed by someone in the hierarchy to make their determination how urgent it is. How much do you trust a doctor's best guess as to how sick you are, based on no test results to back up his best guess?

[kathyspear]

Originally Posted by npwalters

Latest estimate from Sen Warren is 57 Trillion over 10 years that she claims will be paid by the rich and corporations.

Based on what I read on one of the MSM news sites, her plan assumes a rollback of the Trump tax cuts which means middle income people WILL pay more in taxes. She might not see a "tax cut rollback" as a tax increase, but anybody with a brain knows it is.

She also wants to pay all doctors at Medicare rates. Many doctors don't take Medicare at all and some take a limited number of Medicare patients because Medicare reimbursements are so pathetic. So some doctors, especially highly paid, in-high-demand ones, will ONLY take cash patients (meaning wealthier people, who can afford to pay cash for treatment).

Also, many people who might otherwise go into medicine will no longer be willing to spend 10 or 15 years of their life to become a physician at which point they will owe hundreds of thousands of dollars in school loans and make a fraction of what doctors used to make. After all, anyone who can get through medical school can become a vet, a CPA, a software developer, or any number of other things and not have their income limited by the government.

Our medical system needs some help but her plan is not the way to do it.

kathy

[retiredguy123]

For those that don't know what 57 trillion dollars is, it would more than double the current Federal budget. So, if it were paid for across the board, everyone who pays taxes would need to pay more than two times what they are now paying, and, even then, the annual deficit would increase from 1 trillion per year to 2 trillion per year.