[old_lizard]

As I look around at all my neighbors here in The Villages, it is obvious we all have health issues now - or on the way - that require good, honest care. We stand as group with a huge pile of money to be made by people wanting the dollars we use to take care of ourselves; and as the saying goes - when it comes to competing for large amounts of money, the lies tend to get large too.

My comments are not intended to ask you to stop using care or a provider, whatever their treatment or training is - if it works for you and is safe, you are a lucky person.

My only real goal is here is to urge everyone to do some work before you choose a therapy program or use a health care person, group or company - do some small research to look for proof of actual results, any studies done on the therapy, and how are all the staff trained and credentialed? I say this now because...

If you read the local popular and somewhat (ha) slanted daily newspaper, you will see ads placed by persons/groups offering treatments to improve your health, pain or illnesses. In just a week, I counted 29 ads of this type, with only 12 using medical doctors as part of said ads. As my children are all healthcare professionals, with university degrees, appropriate credentials, continuing education and even board certifications, I tend to be very suspicious of any healthcare ad, and normally always ignore them.

However, recently, my lovely wife (who is in much more pain than I) saw an ad by a local provider, located near The Villages Hospital, promising relief due to a brand new and amazing treatment delivered via a new version of a medical device. The relief promised happened to coincide with our joint health problems, and I tend to follow orders well, so I reluctantly attended a "free seminar" as advertised (along with about 25 other "aged" folks). The ad was a bit vague about the actual device, so I had no ability to do my normal research into claims and results. (A thing to remember is that as we endure a painful or life deteriorating condition for chronic ongoing problems, our ability to separate fact from fiction grows weak. When we or our loved ones constantly suffer, we grasp at all possibilities. "Almost real" health providers know this, so claims of help receive large responses as we all "just want it to stop!!!")

When I saw a word printed in 3 ft letters painted on this clinic's building that has been associated and proved as "charlatan based "medicine for years, my skeptic alarm fired. However, they did have coffee and cookies and a bunch of folding chairs, so...

The presenter of the new device was also the "trained operator". He was not a medical doctor or certified nurse or therapist, just worked for the clinic. Soon, audience questions about the therapeutic claims flew, and as the "operator" began to sink, a Medical Doctor and owner of the clinic appeared in an attempt to help out. He was a much better speaker, and was pretty slick when in came to saying "it might work for you, but not for you" and "the number of treatments might be one, or maybe much more". Actually, this was just all stage effects to me, as I had immediately used my phone to Google the treatment and look for studies and proofs of efficacy. Within a few minutes, I found 4 studies done my prestigious medical universities that found no actual medical value of the new device (which could "fix" a long list of ailments, including my profound neuropathy) other than it seemed to sometimes help toenail fungus.

As more folks listened and asked questions, the slick doc made an impact by appealing to their need for ANYTHING that might help their back pain, hip injury, neck damage, neuropathy, fibromyalgia, etc. The questions moved into the "how do I get an appointment???" stage. This even though it was clear the only physical evaluation to be done, treatment plan developed, and diagnosis would be done by the non- medical"operator" who also could do acupuncture and other similar treatments.

I wanted to stand and just yell - "go home and investigate before you invest your money ($100 per treatment) and, more importantly, your optimism in this! If you can't figure out how to do it, ask a friend or ask a real medical doctor!!! Please!!)

However, I have some experience in trying to explain complex things to people and realized any public utterance on my part was useless.

So here I am. Read the ads, and if something appeals to you - before you waste your time, and more importantly, your already damaged faith in a cure - investigate. The internet is a great tool. If the ad doesn't say the provider is a medical doctor or a dentist, think twice, investigate ten times.

"Doctors" of Chiropratic, Chinese Medicine, Herbal Healing, etc. are NOT doctors. Period. They are choosing money over actual proven treatments that stand the test of time and required real and ongoing training and certification. (I should repeat at this point - if any of these people HELP YOU PERSONALLY - great, please continue if you wish. Just know what you are signing up for. Real true doctors and dentists never promise cures 100% - fakes make sure that it sound like it will, given enough time and treatments (AKA MONEY!))

So... good doctors will do advanced blood tests, cat scans, and other diagnostic procedures even though they are basically convinced you don't have the problem they are testing for. This is called "due diligence", and every good doc lives by that rule because it has saved many, many lives.

Be a good patient for you and your family. Follow the real doctor's rule - do your "due diligence". The internet, your primary care doctor, support groups, the library, your kids, your grandkids - use any and all resources to make a decision.

Look for the warning signs: frequent ads in the paper that don't mention "MD", but use the word doctor alongside another special "word"; "free" seminars; special machines that do amazing things; (by the way, the machine described in the seminar I attended costs exactly $199,999 as per the manufacturer's website - so that is a whole bunch of $100 visits to break even!) or some new treatment out of the blue that requires many visits (can you say the word for the really old scheme that needs lots of treatments? Does it start with Chiro? Or Chelation maybe?); out of country treatments to some island location; buying a "special new"device that you use at home? There are many warnings.

Even if there is no real evidence of a scam - just remember- YOU are in charge. Do YOUR due diligence.

[golfing eagles]

Originally Posted by old_lizard

As I look around at all my neighbors here in The Villages, it is obvious we all have health issues now - or on the way - that require good, honest care. We stand as group with a huge pile of money to be made by people wanting the dollars we use to take care of ourselves; and as the saying goes - when it comes to competing for large amounts of money, the lies tend to get large too.

My comments are not intended to ask you to stop using care or a provider, whatever their treatment or training is - if it works for you and is safe, you are a lucky person.

My only real goal is here is to urge everyone to do some work before you choose a therapy program or use a health care person, group or company - do some small research to look for proof of actual results, any studies done on the therapy, and how are all the staff trained and credentialed? I say this now because...

If you read the local popular and somewhat (ha) slanted daily newspaper, you will see ads placed by persons/groups offering treatments to improve your health, pain or illnesses. In just a week, I counted 29 ads of this type, with only 12 using medical doctors as part of said ads. As my children are all healthcare professionals, with university degrees, appropriate credentials, continuing education and even board certifications, I tend to be very suspicious of any healthcare ad, and normally always ignore them.

However, recently, my lovely wife (who is in much more pain than I) saw an ad by a local provider, located near The Villages Hospital, promising relief due to a brand new and amazing treatment delivered via a new version of a medical device. The relief promised happened to coincide with our joint health problems, and I tend to follow orders well, so I reluctantly attended a "free seminar" as advertised (along with about 25 other "aged" folks). The ad was a bit vague about the actual device, so I had no ability to do my normal research into claims and results. (A thing to remember is that as we endure a painful or life deteriorating condition for chronic ongoing problems, our ability to separate fact from fiction grows weak. When we or our loved ones constantly suffer, we grasp at all possibilities. "Almost real" health providers know this, so claims of help receive large responses as we all "just want it to stop!!!")

When I saw a word printed in 3 ft letters painted on this clinic's building that has been associated and proved as "charlatan based "medicine for years, my skeptic alarm fired. However, they did have coffee and cookies and a bunch of folding chairs, so...

The presenter of the new device was also the "trained operator". He was not a medical doctor or certified nurse or therapist, just worked for the clinic. Soon, audience questions about the therapeutic claims flew, and as the "operator" began to sink, a Medical Doctor and owner of the clinic appeared in an attempt to help out. He was a much better speaker, and was pretty slick when in came to saying "it might work for you, but not for you" and "the number of treatments might be one, or maybe much more". Actually, this was just all stage effects to me, as I had immediately used my phone to Google the treatment and look for studies and proofs of efficacy. Within a few minutes, I found 4 studies done my prestigious medical universities that found no actual medical value of the new device (which could "fix" a long list of ailments, including my profound neuropathy) other than it seemed to sometimes help toenail fungus.

As more folks listened and asked questions, the slick doc made an impact by appealing to their need for ANYTHING that might help their back pain, hip injury, neck damage, neuropathy, fibromyalgia, etc. The questions moved into the "how do I get an appointment???" stage. This even though it was clear the only physical evaluation to be done, treatment plan developed, and diagnosis would be done by the non- medical"operator" who also could do acupuncture and other similar treatments.

I wanted to stand and just yell - "go home and investigate before you invest your money ($100 per treatment) and, more importantly, your optimism in this! If you can't figure out how to do it, ask a friend or ask a real medical doctor!!! Please!!)

However, I have some experience in trying to explain complex things to people and realized any public utterance on my part was useless.

So here I am. Read the ads, and if something appeals to you - before you waste your time, and more importantly, your already damaged faith in a cure - investigate. The internet is a great tool. If the ad doesn't say the provider is a medical doctor or a dentist, think twice, investigate ten times.

"Doctors" of Chiropratic, Chinese Medicine, Herbal Healing, etc. are NOT doctors. Period. They are choosing money over actual proven treatments that stand the test of time and required real and ongoing training and certification. (I should repeat at this point - if any of these people HELP YOU PERSONALLY - great, please continue if you wish. Just know what you are signing up for. Real true doctors and dentists never promise cures 100% - fakes make sure that it sound like it will, given enough time and treatments (AKA MONEY!))

So... good doctors will do advanced blood tests, cat scans, and other diagnostic procedures even though they are basically convinced you don't have the problem they are testing for. This is called "due diligence", and every good doc lives by that rule because it has saved many, many lives.

Be a good patient for you and your family. Follow the real doctor's rule - do your "due diligence". The internet, your primary care doctor, support groups, the library, your kids, your grandkids - use any and all resources to make a decision.

Look for the warning signs: frequent ads in the paper that don't mention "MD", but use the word doctor alongside another special "word"; "free" seminars; special machines that do amazing things; (by the way, the machine described in the seminar I attended costs exactly $199,999 as per the manufacturer's website - so that is a whole bunch of $100 visits to break even!) or some new treatment out of the blue that requires many visits (can you say the word for the really old scheme that needs lots of treatments? Does it start with Chiro? Or Chelation maybe?); out of country treatments to some island location; buying a "special new"device that you use at home? There are many warnings.

Even if there is no real evidence of a scam - just remember- YOU are in charge. Do YOUR due diligence.

Great post, great advice and all 100% true

Not much you can do about "the operators", but if you feel the doctor was out of line report him to the Florida Office of Professional Misconduct. It will probably go nowhere, but they will at least do a cursory investigation. They might dig up something else on this bozo.

[dbussone]

Originally Posted by old_lizard

As I look around at all my neighbors here in The Villages, it is obvious we all have health issues now - or on the way - that require good, honest care. We stand as group with a huge pile of money to be made by people wanting the dollars we use to take care of ourselves; and as the saying goes - when it comes to competing for large amounts of money, the lies tend to get large too.



My comments are not intended to ask you to stop using care or a provider, whatever their treatment or training is - if it works for you and is safe, you are a lucky person.



My only real goal is here is to urge everyone to do some work before you choose a therapy program or use a health care person, group or company - do some small research to look for proof of actual results, any studies done on the therapy, and how are all the staff trained and credentialed? I say this now because...



If you read the local popular and somewhat (ha) slanted daily newspaper, you will see ads placed by persons/groups offering treatments to improve your health, pain or illnesses. In just a week, I counted 29 ads of this type, with only 12 using medical doctors as part of said ads. As my children are all healthcare professionals, with university degrees, appropriate credentials, continuing education and even board certifications, I tend to be very suspicious of any healthcare ad, and normally always ignore them.



However, recently, my lovely wife (who is in much more pain than I) saw an ad by a local provider, located near The Villages Hospital, promising relief due to a brand new and amazing treatment delivered via a new version of a medical device. The relief promised happened to coincide with our joint health problems, and I tend to follow orders well, so I reluctantly attended a "free seminar" as advertised (along with about 25 other "aged" folks). The ad was a bit vague about the actual device, so I had no ability to do my normal research into claims and results. (A thing to remember is that as we endure a painful or life deteriorating condition for chronic ongoing problems, our ability to separate fact from fiction grows weak. When we or our loved ones constantly suffer, we grasp at all possibilities. "Almost real" health providers know this, so claims of help receive large responses as we all "just want it to stop!!!")



When I saw a word printed in 3 ft letters painted on this clinic's building that has been associated and proved as "charlatan based "medicine for years, my skeptic alarm fired. However, they did have coffee and cookies and a bunch of folding chairs, so...



The presenter of the new device was also the "trained operator". He was not a medical doctor or certified nurse or therapist, just worked for the clinic. Soon, audience questions about the therapeutic claims flew, and as the "operator" began to sink, a Medical Doctor and owner of the clinic appeared in an attempt to help out. He was a much better speaker, and was pretty slick when in came to saying "it might work for you, but not for you" and "the number of treatments might be one, or maybe much more". Actually, this was just all stage effects to me, as I had immediately used my phone to Google the treatment and look for studies and proofs of efficacy. Within a few minutes, I found 4 studies done my prestigious medical universities that found no actual medical value of the new device (which could "fix" a long list of ailments, including my profound neuropathy) other than it seemed to sometimes help toenail fungus.



As more folks listened and asked questions, the slick doc made an impact by appealing to their need for ANYTHING that might help their back pain, hip injury, neck damage, neuropathy, fibromyalgia, etc. The questions moved into the "how do I get an appointment???" stage. This even though it was clear the only physical evaluation to be done, treatment plan developed, and diagnosis would be done by the non- medical"operator" who also could do acupuncture and other similar treatments.



I wanted to stand and just yell - "go home and investigate before you invest your money ($100 per treatment) and, more importantly, your optimism in this! If you can't figure out how to do it, ask a friend or ask a real medical doctor!!! Please!!)



However, I have some experience in trying to explain complex things to people and realized any public utterance on my part was useless.



So here I am. Read the ads, and if something appeals to you - before you waste your time, and more importantly, your already damaged faith in a cure - investigate. The internet is a great tool. If the ad doesn't say the provider is a medical doctor or a dentist, think twice, investigate ten times.



"Doctors" of Chiropratic, Chinese Medicine, Herbal Healing, etc. are NOT doctors. Period. They are choosing money over actual proven treatments that stand the test of time and required real and ongoing training and certification. (I should repeat at this point - if any of these people HELP YOU PERSONALLY - great, please continue if you wish. Just know what you are signing up for. Real true doctors and dentists never promise cures 100% - fakes make sure that it sound like it will, given enough time and treatments (AKA MONEY!))



So... good doctors will do advanced blood tests, cat scans, and other diagnostic procedures even though they are basically convinced you don't have the problem they are testing for. This is called "due diligence", and every good doc lives by that rule because it has saved many, many lives.



Be a good patient for you and your family. Follow the real doctor's rule - do your "due diligence". The internet, your primary care doctor, support groups, the library, your kids, your grandkids - use any and all resources to make a decision.



Look for the warning signs: frequent ads in the paper that don't mention "MD", but use the word doctor alongside another special "word"; "free" seminars; special machines that do amazing things; (by the way, the machine described in the seminar I attended costs exactly $199,999 as per the manufacturer's website - so that is a whole bunch of $100 visits to break even!) or some new treatment out of the blue that requires many visits (can you say the word for the really old scheme that needs lots of treatments? Does it start with Chiro? Or Chelation maybe?); out of country treatments to some island location; buying a "special new"device that you use at home? There are many warnings.



Even if there is no real evidence of a scam - just remember- YOU are in charge. Do YOUR due diligence.

You may be an old lizard, but you sure are a smart one.

[graciegirl]

Originally Posted by dbussone

You may be an old lizard, but you sure are a smart one.

I agree.


It used to be that ethical and professional M.D.s and Attorneys didn't advertise in media of any kind.


A free lunch should be the warning sign on a lot of things.


Until I moved here, I had never heard of the word chelation. There still is quackery being practiced, if you ask me.


I am SO glad that we have posters that make good sense on the issue of medicine.

[golfing eagles]

Originally Posted by graciegirl

I agree.


It used to be that ethical and professional M.D.s and Attorneys didn't advertise in media of any kind.


A free lunch should be the warning sign on a lot of things.


Until I moved here, I had never heard of the word chelation. There still is quackery being practiced, if you ask me.


I am SO glad that we have posters that make good sense on the issue of medicine.

Try to forget the word "chelation", unless you ingest a heavy metal and have to use it as a legitimate medical treatment. Also, try to ignore anything like "colon cleansing", especially if it is a banana or coffee flavored enema
I find it amazing, that despite all the good info out there, these quacks are able to attract large numbers of people, many of whom become true believers. Another piece of sound advice---don't try to argue with one of these true believers, no matter how much evidence you present, their mind is made up and shut. Now, if anyone feels better with these "therapies", go ahead, because you never know if you're being helped in some way. I always say an inexplicable cure is better than a fancy diagnosis.

[redwitch]

I came from an area where alternative medical treatments were very much in vogue. I was never truly convinced but did try acupuncture for migraines on the advice of my physician. While it didn't get rid of the pain entirely, it did lessen the pain considerably. The acupuncturist taught me the pressure points to hit so that I could treat myself (sans needles but applying pressure myself). Between that and biofeedback, my need for almost weekly Demerol shots went down to about every six months (Fiurinol and Immutrx rarely worked). So, I'm no longer quite so quick to poo-poo alternative treatments but still would never consider using one without a physician's recommendation.

Due diligence is always a good idea regardless if prescribed by a physician, recommended by a trusted friend or promoted in an ad.

Good warning, lizard. Thanks.

[golfing eagles]

Originally Posted by redwitch

I came from an area where alternative medical treatments were very much in vogue. I was never truly convinced but did try acupuncture for migraines on the advice of my physician. While it didn't get rid of the pain entirely, it did lessen the pain considerably. The acupuncturist taught me the pressure points to hit so that I could treat myself (sans needles but applying pressure myself). Between that and biofeedback, my need for almost weekly Demerol shots went down to about every six months (Fiurinol and Immutrx rarely worked). So, I'm no longer quite so quick to poo-poo alternative treatments but still would never consider using one without a physician's recommendation.

Due diligence is always a good idea regardless if prescribed by a physician, recommended by a trusted friend or promoted in an ad.

Good warning, lizard. Thanks.

I don't consider acupuncture in the same class as the other snake oils mentioned. It is a time tested technique used by the Chinese while our ancestors were living in caves. I've referred patients to acupuncturists with pretty good results. And best of all, they don't use flavored enemas

[rubicon]

"The study found that patients with LDL-cholesterol levels less than 110 mmg/dl, and triglyceride less than 62.5 mmg/dl were most at risk of dying," Dr. Brownstein told Newsmax Health.

"Lower LDL levels were linked to a 65 percent increase in mortality, and lower triglycerides were associated with a 405 percent increased mortality. But in those patients whose LDL and triglyceride levels were both below the threshold levels, the risk rose to an astronomical 990 percent increased risk for dying."

This is an excerpt from a newsletter e-mailed to me today. so what's the average guy to do when one doctor explains that you need the benefit of statins and another tells you your at greater risk.

This type of contradiction is common place with diets, supplements exercise, etc. Yesterday eating meat, eggs , etc was a death sentence. Today its a good source of nutrients and the older you are the more you need because older people do not absorb nutrients as readily.

and don't get me started on free range, grass fed organic GMO's
diets, supplements, exercise

[golfing eagles]

Originally Posted by rubicon

"The study found that patients with LDL-cholesterol levels less than 110 mmg/dl, and triglyceride less than 62.5 mmg/dl were most at risk of dying," Dr. Brownstein told Newsmax Health.

"Lower LDL levels were linked to a 65 percent increase in mortality, and lower triglycerides were associated with a 405 percent increased mortality. But in those patients whose LDL and triglyceride levels were both below the threshold levels, the risk rose to an astronomical 990 percent increased risk for dying."

This is an excerpt from a newsletter e-mailed to me today. so what's the average guy to do when one doctor explains that you need the benefit of statins and another tells you your at greater risk.

This type of contradiction is common place with diets, supplements exercise, etc. Yesterday eating meat, eggs , etc was a death sentence. Today its a good source of nutrients and the older you are the more you need because older people do not absorb nutrients as readily.

and don't get me started on free range, grass fed organic GMO's
diets, supplements, exercise

OK, what newsletter, who publishes it, who is "Dr. Brownstein" and who let him out of the asylum, and most important, what kind of crap were they selling?

[Challenger]

That P T Barnum guy was smart. "Fools and their money are early parted"

[rubicon]

Originally Posted by golfing eagles

OK, what newsletter, who publishes it, who is "Dr. Brownstein" and who let him out of the asylum, and most important, what kind of crap were they selling?

Well golfing eagles based on your reaction I am no longer going to print this article and take it to my cardio guy for discussion

Secondly I want to assure you I am not the kind of person who buys snake oil remedies. i resist taking an aspirn. My interest in this was to get my cardio's response to this supposed stuty but again its apparently a bad idea.

Dr Brownstein writes about natural remedies for improving health. I don't follow him he just comes with the Newsmax health letter.

Thank you for your response

[dbussone]

Originally Posted by golfing eagles

OK, what newsletter, who publishes it, who is "Dr. Brownstein" and who let him out of the asylum, and most important, what kind of crap were they selling?

There you go. Ruining another dream. And this time it was Rubicon's.

[CFrance]

Originally Posted by golfing eagles

I don't consider acupuncture in the same class as the other snake oils mentioned. It is a time tested technique used by the Chinese while our ancestors were living in caves. I've referred patients to acupuncturists with pretty good results. And best of all, they don't use flavored enemas

I have a problem with lumping chiropractic in with that as well. If it weren't for a darn good chiropractor in Grand Rapids, MI, my husband wouldn't be able to move without pain.

And thanks to good-old-fashioned chiropractic practiced by Dr. Kuhn in Wildwood (not a franchise and not a gimmicker), I wouldn't be back to being able to walk across the width of my house and back to playing pickleball three times a week--after a condition two months of physical therapy only worsened.

[golfing eagles]

Originally Posted by CFrance

I have a problem with lumping chiropractic in with that as well. If it weren't for a darn good chiropractor in Grand Rapids, MI, my husband wouldn't be able to move without pain.

And thanks to good-old-fashioned chiropractic practiced by Dr. Kuhn in Wildwood (not a franchise and not a gimmicker), I wouldn't be back to being able to walk across the width of my house and back to playing pickleball three times a week--after a condition two months of physical therapy only worsened.

I should have mentioned chiropractic as well. I frequently send patients to chiropractors, after a complete evaluation. They often help people in ways I can't