[Golfingnut]

I prefer quality of life far more than quantity. I never fear death, but do fear not living.

[Golfingnut]

Euell Gibbons - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Read about the guy that died younger than I am now.

[ajbrown]

Originally Posted by jimbo2012

[IMG] "He went 26 minutes on a treadmill test (protocol unnamed), attaining a heart rate of 178 beats per minute. Bush's resting heart rate was 43 beats/minute, and his blood pressure 118/74 mmHg. His total cholesterol level was 170 mg/dl."

I cannot answer for former President Bush. I suspect he has access to some pretty sharp doctors and will be listening to their advice .

That said what really blew me away was his numbers! Resting HR of 47!! On treadmill HR of 178. Holy MOLY!!! I do treadmill work and push my HR to 145 and that is enough for me. I think at 178 it may explode!!!

PS. I for one follow your posts (and a few others) on this subject with great interest. I cannot say I have converted to a plant based lifestyle, but I have taken a serious look at how I eat and made some significant changes to the better due to a few posters on TOTV and my followup reading.

[Dr Winston O Boogie jr]

Originally Posted by Golfingnut

Euell Gibbons - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Read about the guy that died younger than I am now.

But you don't understand. Euell Gibbons ate meat. According to Carl Esselstyn we're all supposed to live on lettuce and celery. If you follow his program and you are not losing weight, he'll tell you that you're eating too many carbs. If it's still not working, you're eating to many calories. Then maybe you're eating processed foods.

Dean Ornish who has written books prescribing almost the same program that Esselstyn has, has admitted that their diets are very difficult to stick with.

Also there are hundreds of nutritionists and cardiologists who disagree with their premise. Arthur Agatston, a cardiologist is Miami is one who feels that sugar is more of a problem than fat. Sugar is in almost everything we eat and the amount of it and, more importantly, how quickly it is absorbed into our blood stream may have a more deleterious effect than eating healthy fats. To Esselstyn, there is no such thing as healthy fats.

Esselstyn has some anecdotal evidence where his program has been successful, (as does every other nutritionist and doctor with a diet book out there) but there have been no long term studies have been conducted to show that people who adopt this style of eating will, number one, stay on the diet If they do manage to follow this very difficult program there is no hard evidence that they will lose weight and improve their cardiovascular health.

Some doctors also have concerns about the detrimental effects of a completely plant based diet. Not only is it unnatural for humans but the lack of certain nutrients may cause other problems in the long run.

This has worked very well for President Clinton but that doesn't mean that it will work for everyone.

And as someone else pointed out what is the point of living a few extra years if you can't enjoy some of the finer things in life?

[jimbo2012]

Originally Posted by ajbrown

That said what really blew me away was his numbers! Resting HR of 47!!

PS. I for one follow your posts (and a few others) on this subject with great interest. I cannot say I have converted to a plant based lifestyle, but I have taken a serious look at how I eat and made some significant changes to the better due to a few posters on TOTV and my followup reading.

Thanks AJ, aside from the wisecrackers, folks here really do read it, I always get the email or PM or two saying positive things.

Originally Posted by Dr Winston O Boogie jr

According to Carl Esselstyn we're all supposed to live on lettuce and celery. If you follow his program and you are not losing weight, he'll tell you that you're eating too many carbs. If it's still not working, you're eating to many calories. Then maybe you're eating processed foods.

You know that isn't true vegans eat a lot more than lettuce and celery, I guess when you tried it, it just wasn't for you. Too bad it could have help your condition I think, those R the choices we make.

Dean Ornish who has written books prescribing almost the same program that Esselstyn has, has admitted that their diets are very difficult to stick with.

plant based is easier than waking up after open heart surgery or rehabbing after a stroke or heart attack .

Esselstyn has some anecdotal evidence where his program has been successful, (as does every other nutritionist and doctor with a diet book out there) but there have been no long term studies have been conducted to show that people who adopt this style of eating will, number one, stay on the diet If they do manage to follow this very difficult program there is no hard evidence that they will lose weight and improve their cardiovascular health.

Not TRUE at all totally mis stated

Some doctors also have concerns about the detrimental effects of a completely plant based diet. Not only is it unnatural for humans but the lack of certain nutrients may cause other problems in the long run.

Such as? care to specify?

This has worked very well for President Clinton but that doesn't mean that it will work for everyone.

It will work for almost everyone, but only about 6 million so far have the will power & desire to stop taking meds with their known side effects

And as someone else pointed out what is the point of living a few extra years if you can't enjoy some of the finer things in life?

How about the quality of life in a nursing home for the rest of your life, is that one of those finer things to look forward to?

[Bill-n-Brillo]

Originally Posted by jimbo2012

Let's get the naysayers to post a copy of their blood work and jump on a scale & post that number.

From 08/02/13 "inspection" at the docs office:

Height 6'1"
Weight 205
Heart rate at rest - 58
BP - 116/72

Cholesterol - 140
Triglyceride - 101
HDL - 50
LDL - 70
VLDL - 20
Sodium - 141
Potassium - 4.1
Glucose - 92
Calcium - 9.3

etc., etc., etc.

Every number from every test was within accepted range.


I jog 3 times a week, 2 miles each time.

I take a mild dosage of cholesterol and blood pressure meds once a day as those had tested high initially about 10 years ago. By watching some of what I choose to eat - along with the medications - the numbers have improved to their current levels.

My diet is horrible by textbook standards. I'd describe it as mirroring "Selective Eating Disorder" without the social stigma part - people we know well joke with me about my eating habits all the time :

Selective eating disorder - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

I have real issues with the consistency of many foods and thus won't eat them. Not much of a person to want to try new foods so what I eat is pretty much what I've eaten my entire life.

There are many, many foods I've never eaten and can guarantee you I'll never eat - salads (never had one in my life), most fruits and vegetables, and so on. I love junk food, crave sweets, and pretty much eat what I like. Give me a cheeseburger or a pizza and I'm a happy guy. But I eat lots of things like chicken, too. It's just the way I am - no apologies for it.

I feel fine, never missed work or school back in the day - - - and I enjoy life and what I eat.

Until something changes with how I feel or with the feedback the doctor gives me, I plan to continue along the same path. I really don't see any reason not to.

And at the end of the day, I could step off the curb this afternoon and get whacked by a bus or something. I want to be happy with my daily life.....just in case something drastic like the bus thing should ever transpire. Radically changing something like my diet would put a big damper on the "happy life" thing for me.

Not putting this up for debate - just offering the info as requested. Thanks!

Bill

[jimbo2012]

Originally Posted by Bill-n-Brillo

From 08/02/13 "inspection" at the docs office:


BP - 116/72

Cholesterol - 140
Triglyceride - 101
HDL - 50
LDL - 70


Every number from every test was within accepted range.

Sure, with the meds you take, surprised you don't see that.

You can eat even more bad food, just takes more meds, ya think?

[Cantwaittoarrive]

Originally Posted by Golfingnut

No.

[Suzi]

My medical "mantra" is: everything in moderation. The problem that gets people in trouble is the defination of "moderation". I prefer to refer people to "the zone" diet. Its easy to keep. Not necessarily a losing weight diet, but a good solid diet to keep yourself healthy in the long run. Very few people eat enough fruits and vegs and consume too much starch/grains/carbo's. I would suggest that GW might have genetic heart disease. Doesn't have to be his parents.....could be farther back in his family tree. Generally speaking, from his numbers, he appears fit.

[Shimpy]

[QUOTE=Some doctors also have concerns about the detrimental effects of a completely plant based diet. Not only is it unnatural for humans but the lack of certain nutrients may cause other problems in the long run.

[/QUOTE]

Actually there is nothing natural about humans consuming meats. It has been explained that man isn't even a match for a 40 lb dog let alone running down game and killing it by bitting into it's neck as other wild animals. We haven't the teeth of a carnivore, rather we have the grinding teeth of plant and nut eating animals. Our intestinal tracks are very long as other plant eating animals as compared to the very short tracks of carnivores which also have very strong digestive juices as compared to us. Meat eating animals digest and get rid of it very fast due to it's short track and strong digestive juices. When humans eat meat it sets very long in us getting rancid.
There is lots to be said for a vegetarian diet.

[graciegirl]

Originally Posted by jimbo2012

Sure, with the meds you take, surprised you don't see that.

You can eat even more bad food, just takes more meds, ya think?

It is not a SIN or even an imperfection to take medication to improve your general health and to make the quality of life better. That is the reason we have brains to figure stuff out. What you just said is not logical reasoning to me at all. That is like ...You have legs, don't use a golf cart. You would be healthier if you walked everywhere.

My husband was born with Pete Marravich syndrome, he was born with one coronary artery instead of three. Although he has no problems the cardiologist prescribed statins to keep that one open.

Our daughter was born with Williams Syndrome where all vessels great and small are stenosed so she takes both statins and blood pressure medication to ease the load on her narrowed vessels.

Bill just said he was born with a selective eating disorder. He is doing pretty good, I'd say with no lettuce.

I have a genetic blessing that keeps my cholesterol down in the 120's.



I think this is a waste of typing. If you believe one way, no one will convince you of another as we get older it gets worse. And I include myself in that statement.

[jimbo2012]

Gracie, I'm speaking to meds for related ailments that can be eliminated thru diet.
(to say nothing of the known and unknown side effects)

You can correct plaque in arteries

High cholesterol tri's etc

Also BP

Type II diabetes eliminated.

The list goes on 6 million vegans and counting

Not speaking to the types of ailments that can't be changed other wise.

[jpharmat]

Sure, why not!!

[Villages PL]

Originally Posted by Bill-n-Brillo

Until something changes with how I feel or with the feedback the doctor gives me, I plan to continue along the same path. I really don't see any reason not to.

Doctors can't always catch clogged arteries in time. A local cardiologist was talking about the death of actor Gandolfini on the radio the other day. He said a person could have an artery 75% clogged and still pass a stress test.

[jimbo2012]

great example.

Oh just in on red meat