[DianeM]

I certainly hope I die before I need any assistance. To be at the mercy of strangers, well-intentioned as they may be, Horrifies me. Let me pass and put me in a baggie at the curb.

[dbussone]

Originally Posted by Bizdoc

Great idea. There are really two problems

1) As we get older, someone will likely have to take over making many of our decisions and/or manage our financial affairs. If you expect that will never ever be the case, you sadly mistaken. My college room mate tried to get his parents to realize that this might be a problem - their solution was that their circle of friends promised to take care of each other. By the time his father developed dementia (his mother had had it for quite some time), all of their friends were dead, in a nursing home, or incapacitated.. The children finally moved his dad to a nursing home in Michigan where the only child who was retired could look after him.

My dad was furious and raged at me the day I had to put him in the nursing home. Once her adjusted to the fact that "I had the watch" and gave him regular reports, he relaxed. However, we had had 20 years of periodic discussions ago their wishes and I knew that I was doing what they had told me that they wanted. Sometimes, someone who cares or knows what they want has to make hard decisions.

2) The second problem is loneliness. There are a lot of seniors in assisted living and nursing homes with no one left. It's not just the childless - there are more than a few who outlive children, friends, spouses, and essentially everyone in their world. I know of situations at the nursing home where my mother is where there is no family left to buy things for residents or visit. Staff and a few of the families who are aware of the problem often chip in for things like Christmas gifts.

As many activities as the various care facilities have, at some point, many of the residents are no longer able to participate due to physical or mental issues.

Even the good places can't solve all of the problems. The cost of providing one-on-one care and companionship for each resident would boost the cost up into the $30-40K/month range. So they rely on volunteers.

In the small town in WV where we lived just prior to moving to TV, the nursing home had community groups in most days of the weeks. Churches, scouting groups, schools, fraternal and veteran groups and neighbors came in.

What can you do? If you have a neighborhood social club or some other organization looking for a project, contact one of the area nursing homes (especially the ones doing "long term" rather than "short-term-rehab" care. Talk to the activity director who would probably be happy to have you come sing or sit and read, or do most anything with some residents. Don't just wait for Christmas - everybody does stuff then. Do it for Memorial Day or July 4th or Labor Day or "just because day..."

Sorry this ended up being long.

Not too long at all. Thoughtful and full of good information. Our two children live in Orlando and Nashville. Our son is an attorney. We updated our trust documents this year to be certain they are consistent with FL. Both kids have been given all the trust and associated documents, including durable power of attorney and our healthcare directives. My wife and I talked with each of them about our wishes. In addition to our paper copies which are safe here in TV, I posted electronic versions on MS OneDrive. That way we can access the documents no matter where we are, as long as we have cell phone or wifi.

[dbussone]

Originally Posted by Barefoot

What a wonderful post. If I can just add one thing ... You don't have to be able to sing or have a talent. Many seniors in Long-term care are lonely and want to talk. Ask them questions about their favorite memories or their hobbies or their pets. If they don't have memories, just talk to them about your favorite memories. I bet they'll smile.

One of the ministries our church has involves conducting a service at LTC facilities where some residents just can't get out. There are more than a few of our members who participate in this.

[Villages PL]

Originally Posted by Bizdoc

Great idea. There are really two problems

1) As we get older, someone will likely have to take over making many of our decisions and/or manage our financial affairs. If you expect that will never ever be the case, you sadly mistaken. My college room mate tried to get his parents to realize that this might be a problem - their solution was that their circle of friends promised to take care of each other. By the time his father developed dementia (his mother had had it for quite some time), all of their friends were dead, in a nursing home, or incapacitated.. The children finally moved his dad to a nursing home in Michigan where the only child who was retired could look after him.

My dad was furious and raged at me the day I had to put him in the nursing home. Once her adjusted to the fact that "I had the watch" and gave him regular reports, he relaxed. However, we had had 20 years of periodic discussions ago their wishes and I knew that I was doing what they had told me that they wanted. Sometimes, someone who cares or knows what they want has to make hard decisions.

2) The second problem is loneliness. There are a lot of seniors in assisted living and nursing homes with no one left. It's not just the childless - there are more than a few who outlive children, friends, spouses, and essentially everyone in their world. I know of situations at the nursing home where my mother is where there is no family left to buy things for residents or visit. Staff and a few of the families who are aware of the problem often chip in for things like Christmas gifts.

As many activities as the various care facilities have, at some point, many of the residents are no longer able to participate due to physical or mental issues.

Even the good places can't solve all of the problems. The cost of providing one-on-one care and companionship for each resident would boost the cost up into the $30-40K/month range. So they rely on volunteers.

In the small town in WV where we lived just prior to moving to TV, the nursing home had community groups in most days of the weeks. Churches, scouting groups, schools, fraternal and veteran groups and neighbors came in.

What can you do? If you have a neighborhood social club or some other organization looking for a project, contact one of the area nursing homes (especially the ones doing "long term" rather than "short-term-rehab" care. Talk to the activity director who would probably be happy to have you come sing or sit and read, or do most anything with some residents. Don't just wait for Christmas - everybody does stuff then. Do it for Memorial Day or July 4th or Labor Day or "just because day..."

Sorry this ended up being long.

There used to be a group in The Villages 10 or more years ago and they/we would go to nursing homes to entertain residents. I joined it for a while but don't remember the name of the group anymore, it was such a long time ago and I just put it out of my mind. I stopped because some of the nursing homes were further than I cared to go. Plus the fact that nursing homes are sad places to visit. Something closer like assisted living would be more to my liking. And I have visited some assisted living facilities from time to time.

Based on the link, and my own experience, it seems that women are the most at risk of ending up alone. I belonged to a large neighborhood group when I first moved to the villages and the group consisted of mostly single women. Also, I once went to a large singles club where a friend of mine was performing and I was surprised to see hundreds of elderly women but very few men. So women take care of their husbands and the husband dies leaving them alone. Also met a few men who outlived their wives.

A few, from my experience in The Villages, just died at home alone and were discovered a day or two later.

Stay healthy and you'll have less to worry about; if you still have your health don't take it for granted.

[JoelJohnson]

I just want to live long enough to be a burden on my kids.

[onslowe]

The legal and business points brought to us by Bizdoc are excellent advice and should be written or otherwise preserved by each of us. And reviewed often for needed modifications. Health care proxies and Living wills and such should be reduced by photocopying and carried with us on trips in case of accidents away from our home area.

Dbussone alluded to a church ministry at his parish. My church, St George Anglican in Ocala, is formalizing a network system (which is in place informally already) to take those unable to drive to appointments and to just spend time with our members who are alone - including couples- so that these people can realize that a church 'family' really is a caring family unit.

Great posts above on this thread and great topic.

[dbussone]

Originally Posted by onslowe

The legal and business points brought to us by Bizdoc are excellent advice and should be written or otherwise preserved by each of us. And reviewed often for needed modifications. Health care proxies and Living wills and such should be reduced by photocopying and carried with us on trips in case of accidents away from our home area.

Dbussone alluded to a church ministry at his parish. My church, St George Anglican in Ocala, is formalizing a network system (which is in place informally already) to take those unable to drive to appointments and to just spend time with our members who are alone - including couples- so that these people can realize that a church 'family' really is a caring family unit.

Great posts above on this thread and great topic.

Your church is a blessing to those in need. Great works done in His steps. As I've said on a number of occasions, a caring network of friends and loved ones is indispensable as we age.

[Madelaine Amee]

Originally Posted by Barefoot

What a wonderful post. If I can just add one thing ... You don't have to be able to sing or have a talent. Many seniors in Long-term care are lonely and want to talk. Ask them questions about their favorite memories or their hobbies or their pets. If they don't have memories, just talk to them about your favorite memories. I bet they'll smile.

How true Bare. During our working life we were transferred to Scotland, my otherhalf worked and I could not, so I volunteered at one of the local churches to cook a lunch one day a week. After we had finished cooking, serving and cleaning up I used to go out and sit with the elderly people and just talk, they were so interesting. They had lived through so much and had some wonderful and frightening tales to tell. I often wish I had written everything down, it is all lost now.

[dbussone]

The United States is turning gray, with the number of people ages 65 and older expected to nearly double by 2050. This major demographic transition has implications for the economy, government programs such as Social Security and families across the U.S. Among adults with at least one parent 65 or older, nearly three-in-ten already say that in the preceding 12 months they have helped their parents financially. Twice that share report assisting a parent with personal care or day-to-day tasks. Based on demographic change alone, the burden on families seems likely to grow in the coming decades.

Germany and Italy, two of the “oldest” nations in the world, after only Japan, are already where the U.S. will be in 2050: a fifth of the population in each country is age 65 or older. Compared with the U.S. today, a higher share of adults in Germany and Italy report helping their aging parents with basic tasks, and more in Italy have also provided personal care. However, in both countries, fewer adults than in the U.S. say they have provided financial assistance to their aging parents.

The latter difference underscores that, while Germany and Italy may provide a window into the demographic future of the United States, cultural and political factors nonetheless distinguish the three countries. Nothing speaks to this more than the fact that, compared with Americans, twice as many Germans and even more Italians think the government should bear the greatest responsibility for people’s economic well-being in their old age. By contrast, in the U.S. a majority say that families or individuals themselves should see to the well-being of seniors.

These are among the key findings from a new survey by the Pew Research Center that compares the way families in the U.S., Germany and Italy are coping as more people enter their senior years and eventually require assistance. Based on interviews with at least 1,500 adults ages 18 and older in each country, the survey also finds that many families are facing the dual challenge of caring for aging parents while also supporting adult children. In the U.S., Germany and Italy, about half or more of adults who have at least one child 18 years of age or older say they have provided financial help to an adult child in the 12 months preceding the survey; at least as many in each country have assisted grown children in non-monetary ways.

From a Pew Research Study

[dbussone]

Widespread Concerns About the Future of Social Security

Even as about half or more of Italians and Germans say the state should be mostly responsible for ensuring financial stability in old age, many in all three countries surveyed are skeptical that there will be enough money in their countries’ social security systems when they retire to provide benefits, even at a reduced level. All three systems are financed through worker contributions and, in Europe more than in the U.S., the growing number of older adults along with a shrinking pool of younger active contributors has made it difficult to fund pensions for current retirees.

Among those who have not yet retired, only 20% of Americans expect the Social Security system to have enough money when they are ready to retire to provide them with benefits at current levels. An additional 31% say they expect to receive benefits at reduced levels, and 41% think they will receive no benefits at all.

Germans and Italians are even more doubtful that their countries’ social security systems will be able to maintain their current levels of support. In Germany, 11% think they will receive benefits from the Gesetzliche Rentenversicherung (Germany’s equivalent to the U.S. Social Security system) at current levels, 45% think they will receive benefits at reduced levels, and 41% expect to get no benefits at all. Among Italians, only 7% believe there will be enough money in the Previdenza Sociale to provide them with benefits at their current levels, 29% expect benefits but at reduced levels, and fully 53% think they will not get any benefits.

Few Italians Saving for Retirement

If government benefits are reduced or not available, future retirees will need to rely even more heavily on their own personal savings. More than half of Americans (56%) and Germans (61%) who are not retired say they are putting money in a private retirement plan or other savings account aside from social security contributions. But in Italy, just 23% say they are doing this; fully 76% say they are not saving for retirement.

In all three countries, majorities of young adults ages 18 to 29 say they are not currently saving for retirement aside from social security contributions. Still, a substantial share of young adults in Germany (44%) and the U.S. (41%) say they are saving for retirement. By comparison, only 13% of young adults in Italy say they are saving for retirement. And even among Italians ages 50 to 64 –those who are closest to retiring – only 25% say they are putting money in a private retirement plan or other private savings account.

Men and women are equally likely to say they are saving for retirement, whether in the U.S., Germany or Italy. And across all three countries, saving for retirement is highly correlated with financial security. Those who say they live comfortably are among the most likely to report that they are saving for retirement beyond what they are contributing to social security, while those who say they do not have enough money to meet their basic expenses are among the least likely to be saving.

In fact, most adults who are not saving for retirement report that this is mainly because they do not have enough money to save right now, while relatively few say it is because they have not yet started to think about retirement. About two-thirds of Americans and Italians who are not currently saving for retirement say this is mainly because they lack the funds, as do about half in Germany.

From Pew Research.

[dbussone]

Other Key Findings

In the three countries surveyed, more say that helping an aging parent or an adult child is rewarding than say it is stressful. More than eight-in-ten adults who are providing help to a parent age 65 or older in the U.S. (88%), Italy (88%) and Germany (84%) say that doing so is rewarding, while about a third or less in each country find it stressful. Similarly, among those who are helping their grown children, 91% in Italy, 89% in the U.S. and 86% in Germany say that it is rewarding; 12%, 30% and 15%, respectively, say it is stressful.

Many see upsides to getting older. More than six-in-ten adults ages 65 and older in the U.S., Germany and Italy say they are spending more time with their family and on hobbies as they get older. About half or more also say they are experiencing less stress.

Older adults who are married are more likely than those who are not currently married to say they are very satisfied with their family life. This is the case among adults ages 65 and older in the three countries surveyed, but it is particularly pronounced in Italy and Germany, where older adults who are married are about twice as likely as those who aren’t to say they are very satisfied with their family life (50% vs. 26% in Italy and 70% vs. 35% in Germany).

Nearly half of Italians say an adult child is living with them in their home for most of the year. Among Italians ages 50 to 64, six-in-ten say this is the case. In contrast, 30% of Americans and 27% of Germans in the same age group say an adult child – or possibly more than one – lives with them.

Seven-in-ten Italians say they are in contact at least once a day with their adult children who don’t live with them. Fewer in the U.S. (46%) and Germany (32%) say this is the case. Among those who say they are contact with their children once a month or more frequently, Americans are more likely than Germans and Italians to use text messages, email and Facebook or other social networking sites to stay in touch.

[Madelaine Amee]

Originally Posted by DianeM

I certainly hope I die before I need any assistance. To be at the mercy of strangers, well-intentioned as they may be, Horrifies me. Let me pass and put me in a baggie at the curb.

That is so sad DianeM, and I hardly think your circle of friends are going to let you be put out at the curb!

[DianeM]

There is nothing sad. I definitely don't want to end up having someone else take care Of me. What's the point of keeping the shell alive when the spirit is gone. That's not living and not how I want to end.

[graciegirl]

Originally Posted by DianeM

There is nothing sad. I definitely don't want to end up having someone else take care Of me. What's the point of keeping the shell alive when the spirit is gone. That's not living and not how I want to end.

Please come by and have coffee, ANYTIME. I have references that say I am a good listener, don't preach and can be funny. I won't kumbaya ya and I don't want you to end anytime soon.

[DianeM]

Thanks but unnecessary. i'm not going to kill myself. I'm not sick. I'm not depressed. I don't need a pep talk. I just do not feel that assisted-living is for me.I would rather be gone then have someone else cleaning me. That's not living.