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-   Medical and Health Discussion (https://www.talkofthevillages.com/forums/medical-health-discussion-94/)
-   -   Is the current "spiking" of Covis "cases" acceptable to anti vaxers? (https://www.talkofthevillages.com/forums/medical-health-discussion-94/current-spiking-covis-cases-acceptable-anti-vaxers-321592/)

Swoop 07-14-2021 08:38 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rose Ann Vinci Igoe (Post 1972747)
Well the difference in those who elect not to wear seat belts, smoke, it only effects them.
Not really. If you smoke, you overeat, you don’t exercise, then everyone pays higher insurance rates to cover your hospitalization and treatments. So it effects everyone…
And if you’re vaccinated, then you are protected, unless you don’t believe that the vaccine actually protects you…

Bill14564 07-14-2021 08:40 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by lpkruege1 (Post 1972729)
Funny you should ask. If it saves one life. What about the lives the vaccines take? What about the real health consequences some people are susceptible to? Everyone has to make their own choice to get vaccinated. CDC says there is 0.65 % mortality rate for those infected with Covid 19. Yet there are those that have died or developed severe reactions to the vaccine. How many lives lost to vaccination is acceptable to you?
F.D.A. Attaches Warning of Rare Nerve Syndrome to Johnson & Johnson Covid Vaccine
I have not seen that 0.65% number, the last number I have seen and the number I get when I do the math is closer to 1.5% or 1.8%.

You seem to use that 0.65% number as a low number; it really isn't, but for the moment let's take it as low. You then include that article to question whether the vaccines are safe. In the article it says that the syndrome has occurred 10 times as frequently after having the J&J vaccine than is generally expected. "10 times" sounds frighteningly high but what are the numbers? The article says that 100 cases have developed after 12.8M injections. My calculator says that the occurrence of the syndrome in those vaccinated with the J&J vaccine is approximately 0.00078% or about 1,000 times LESS than your low number for the COVID death rate.

So take your pick, one case of a possibly serious syndrome out of every 100,000 injections or 1 permanent death out of every 100 infections.

Even the article you posted has this statement:
... “They’ll say, ‘Aha, see, I was right.’ But they’re not right.”

The risk is low enough, he added, that “for people trying to make a rational decision, this should not influence their decision to get vaccinated.”

Bill14564 07-14-2021 08:42 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by donassaid (Post 1972753)
Gee, I don't know. I wonder if the spike in serious side effects and deaths among healthy people who took an experimental gene therapy shot for a virus with a better than 99% survival rate has caused those who took one or more of the shots to have 2nd thoughts?
You know it might IF the shots were gene therapy and IF they were experimental and IF there was a spike and IF the virus had a better than 99% survival rate. But since none of those are true.....

Bonnevie 07-14-2021 08:48 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eg_cruz (Post 1972648)
This is why I don’t trust Big Pharmaceutical and why I will not get the shot

By one estimate, taking prescribed medications is the fourth leading cause of death among Americans. Americans are taking more medications than ever before. Nearly 60 to 70 percent of us take at least one prescribed drug, depending upon the estimate; for many it amounts to a fistful, potpourri of pills per day.

This not not count how many get ill or end up in care. My friend has been in a nursing home for 5 years because of her meds.

Why people trust Big Pharmaceutical is beyond me
As a former pharmacist I'd like to address this. From my experience there were three types of people. Some always wanted a pill from their doctor and they would have pages of prescriptions but were usually the sickest. Then there were those, like yourself, that didn't trust scientific evidence and wanted nothing. Now many of those people had no problem taking unregulated "herbals" obtained over the counter and costing plenty. Wondering if you take any supplements like that? then there are the people who may have to take a prescription medication for a valid reason, say thyroid medication or blood pressure. Many of these take only a very few necessary ones to control their condition and they were usually the among the healthiest (only beat by those who took none.)

yes, polypharmacy exists and it's a big problem especially among the elderly. I recently helped a neighbor sort thru her meds and there were many duplicate class of meds because she failed to realize she was supposed to stop one when another started. it's vitally important that patients know what they are taking and why they are taking it. if you use a local retail pharmacy you can ask for counseling from the pharmacist. it you use a mail in system, you can call because they should have pharmacists available to do the same.

but to just make a blanket statement that anything that comes from Big Pharma is questionable is unfortunate.

Bonnevie 07-14-2021 08:52 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by G.R.I.T.S. (Post 1972675)
I’ve been diligently trying to learn if the variant is deadly, but have not been able to do so. I understand it to be fast spreading, but so is flu and the common cold. Is there a spike in deaths along with the spike in cases?
guess we'll have to wait and see--but wouldn't want this to have happened to my child.

7 Children in Intensive Care, 2 on Life Support, in Mississippi as State Sees Surge in Delta Variant Cases | PEOPLE.com

Spalumbos62 07-14-2021 09:39 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by camaguey48 (Post 1972374)
It's horrifying to see this weasel on television.

Please.......first, one only wishes they could be as smart.
2) he has had nothing but pushback from people w/o brains and
3) the people that can't get out of their own way...well most likely won't be around if they catch the delta strain. They had every chance to help themselves, they put their cause in front of their own health, or future....I don't get it.
I will agree there was a extremely small amount of risk by vaccinating, but I truly believe we are going to see allot of sickness and death very very soon.
Sorry folks...there were no chips inside, no tracers, Bill Gates is not involved in a conspiracy...it was/is a horrendous pandemic and we have a 99% fix.
We were lead to the water....now drink

Becca9800 07-14-2021 09:43 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by allsport (Post 1972719)
I have had a series of doctor appointments over the last month and am amazed about the lack of vaccine administration to staff in their offices. Vaccines should be a condition of employment, period, in order to protect the patients that you serve. The VA is making it a condition of employment and in most cities medical centers are doing the same. Complain when you go to the doc if the staff is not vaccinated. Ask ALL staff that question. I have had people tell me it is not my business and I said actually it is if you are in this enclosed room with me.
Lack of vaccines amongst healthcare workers..... just think about that for a moment. WHY would a previously assumed intelligent person not accept the vaccine?

Vaccine a condition of employment.... careful what you wish for. There's many out there that will quit the industry before they agree to this vaccine. That's how strong THEY feel.

Ask all staff if they're vaccinated..... You're very likely to get some not so polite responses. And deservedly so.

nick demis 07-14-2021 09:53 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by billethkid (Post 1972288)
It would seem there is a message in the current run up in numbers of "cases".

Is the infection and or death rate acceptable to those choosing to not vaccinate?

The politicians, the media and ultimately medical experts are flip flopping daily and even within the day!

Any different than those who elect to not wear seat belts? Who elect to continue smoking? We don't see these numbers being reported daily in the headlines!!
What is the difference?
If you want to get vaccinated, do if, if not, don't. It has gotten to the point of, "who cares". What ever happened to the, "you mind your business and I'll mind mine".

Bill14564 07-14-2021 09:53 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Becca9800 (Post 1972816)
Lack of vaccines amongst healthcare workers..... just think about that for a moment. WHY would a previously assumed intelligent person not accept the vaccine?

Vaccine a condition of employment.... careful what you wish for. There's many out there that will quit the industry before they agree to this vaccine. That's how strong THEY feel.

Ask all staff if they're vaccinated..... You're very likely to get some not so polite responses. And deservedly so.
Previous assumptions were incorrect.

Becca9800 07-14-2021 10:02 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bonnevie (Post 1972781)
guess we'll have to wait and see--but wouldn't want this to have happened to my child.

7 Children in Intensive Care, 2 on Life Support, in Mississippi as State Sees Surge in Delta Variant Cases | PEOPLE.com
Well of course, no one would want that to happen to any child.

Were the kids in ICU under 12? Couldn't have had the vaccine in any event, they don't qualify if under 12 yo. The article also doesn't discuss the kids health histories. Are these cases where the kid has significant co-morbidities? We're all too well aware that those w co-morbidities were THE most vulnerable with the first wave of C19? Is there reason yet to believe this isn't the case w this latest wave?

I've read several articles who cite studies that show while this Delta variant is more contagious, it is not more deadly.

Byte1 07-14-2021 10:04 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bucco (Post 1972370)
“The sad thing is there is every reason to believe we could have stopped this virus and it’s resulting variants if extreme measures had been taken earlier. But, that solution was unacceptable through out most of the world.”

And, it appears also in the United States.....

“Anthony Fauci said on Sunday that he was horrified to hear the crowd at a conservative gathering this weekend cheering anti-vaccination comments.

"It's horrifying. I mean, they are cheering about someone saying that it's a good thing for people not to try and save their lives," Fauci told host Jake Tapper on CNN's "State of the Union," referring to the audience's reaction to remarks at the Conservative Political Action Conference (CPAC) in Dallas.

Fauci also said that it was “almost frightening” for people to say that they don’t want health officials to save their lives. ”

Fauci: 'Horrifying' to hear CPAC crowd cheering anti-vaccination remarks | TheHill
Fauci is just a political hack. At one time he might have been at the top of his game, but he's been political for at least two decades. He might as well be a lawyer for all the credibility I give him.

Pat2015 07-14-2021 10:04 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by allsport (Post 1972719)
The death and case rate are neither reported by the state nor are they acceptable in a place where vaccinations prevent both. I have had a series of doctor appointments over the last month and am amazed about the lack of vaccine administration to staff in their offices. Vaccines should be a condition of employment, period, in order to protect the patients that you serve. The VA is making it a condition of employment and in most cities medical centers are doing the same. Complain when you go to the doc if the staff is not vaccinated. Ask ALL staff that question. I have had people tell me it is not my business and I said actually it is if you are in this enclosed room with me.
Disagree with several of your points, as it’s a personal decision as to whether to get vaccinated and their decision shouldn’t be disclosed to you just like your personal medical information should not be disclosed to others. Also, a correction to what you said as vaccinations don’t prevent vaccinated people from becoming infected.

Spalumbos62 07-14-2021 10:10 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bucco (Post 1972401)
First do you know how many threats I get on here claiming I am being political. It is insane.

I never post anything remotely political without a back up quoted article or two or a link to a video. Although those who attack me each day very seldom supply any.
backup

I posted this because as we watch a very organized movement against vaccination ( I did not post the Representive using the anti drug chant “just say no” in referring to the vaccine.

The OP made good points, but I differ in blaming the world should anything happen. We HAD the vaccine....easily available. The rest of the world is not in that position.

How can there be a forum where only certain “facts” are allowed.

I am not the political one.....this was made political by our own leaders. Since day one.

Sorry if I get brusque, but getting tired of self appointed critics, WITHOUT ANY FACTS TO DISPUTE, calling every post political. We are discussing Covid vaccinations, and lack of participation, and there is no doubt of the OPEN resistance along political lines.

I agree 100%. If it comes across political, well maybe there is no denying it was..is. no one can deny what...he...did, what he downplayed. Sorry, but now it's part if history and some of the people that post- with a very strong hand...saying "you can't say that" and then end with a strong political comment themselves, don't get removed???? Very interesting.
Ps...then of course there will be some silly emoje, coming thru as condensing....that too is ok??

HRDave 07-14-2021 10:13 AM
Vaccination??
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by OrangeBlossomBaby (Post 1972383)
The difference is that "not wearing seatbelts" isn't contagious. You not wearing a seatbelt is not going to hurt me, if you are in an accident. Indoor smoking is mostly banned in most parts of the country outside the privacy of your own home or vehicle. It's also banned in many outdoor public venues, parks and recreational areas nationwide. But I won't become a smoker just because you are a smoker. Smoking isn't contagious.

COVID is contagious, and you don't have to be "doing" anything to transmit it. Just get physically close enough to someone and breathe in their general direction, and if it's "their turn" to catch it, you will transmit it to them.
If you’re vaccinated you’re protected from the unvaccinated. They’re not going to infect you (at least extremely unlikely)
Get your vaccination & let the rest do what they wish.
Quit trying to push the vaccination on those who don’t want it. Nature will take it’s course.
Live & Let Live!

Becca9800 07-14-2021 10:18 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill14564 (Post 1972821)
Previous assumptions were incorrect.
Your previous assumption was incorrect? What does that say about you then? That you lacked the ability to identify 'unintelligent' when you saw it? That you ignorantly entrusted your life to the 'unintelligent'? So either your statement, "Previous assumptions were incorrect" is ignorant OR you were. I'm going to go w your statement, it is so beneath your usual responses.

Spalumbos62 07-14-2021 10:19 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bucco (Post 1972487)
Just want to address the implications and accusations.

My user name is Bucco. It is my only user name....no others. I did have another...Rags123, which was suggested to me way back by talkhost. Not used since my wife used it to PM someone, and was attacked very “loudly” about guess what...politics.
——————————————-

I am, as of 2016 an independent, after over 50 years as a working member of GOP. My views have always been issue driven, not by party, thus you may think about “switching sides”, but trust me I never have looked back except in sadness. I will speak my true feelings should I choose to post. I will be honest, and as so, can also accept honesty.
————————-

Not sure why disagreeing about lying or spreading false conspiracies, or anything anti American is, to you, venting anger. I have served my country in various ways for 65 of my 82 years. Yes, I am sensitive to the violence on Jan 6, because I worked there and roamed those halls. That is a sacred building, at least to me.
————————————-

I simply respond to a post, and as normal am confronted not with a post disagreeing with my post, but aimed at me. The issue is gone, and the hatred surfaces. If you have another opinion please share. Just discuss the issue and stop with the games played. Not impressed or intimidated.
————————-

But do not speak to me about “bubbling” anger.

I will always speak out against lies, commission or omission. I start out assuming everyone is like that, then I am confronted with this “anger”. This same charge has been made, always on the same thing.....I allowed a fact you just were uncomfortable with.
—————-
This was not “political click bat”. BTK started a good thread about the lack of vaccinations. He alluded to non Americans being the reason. I tool exception to that, using just a few recent statements to make my point.

NOBODY has posted disagreement with what I said. Just, as said here “same led same old” while totally ignoring the thread subject. And calling me out personally for making this political. I was at no rallies.....I did not exhort people to not get a vaccine.....I did not mock anyone, as this is important.

So, please....at least be honest with your posts. Stop making things up, and if you wish to converse, do so ON WHATEVER THE SUBJECT OF THE POST YOU RESPOND TO.

There are some who enjoy, NOT conversation, but concentrated attacks.

I am not the one to be angry at.....try facing truth about who leads the attacks on truth. Try discussing the content, and stop coming after the person who is sharing the truth, although it may be uncomfortable for you to hear.

Truth, I speak of. If my opinion, I say that. To say what I posted here today is not true.....well, a problem then exists that only you can resolve,

Again, thank you....a well deserved spanking.

JMintzer 07-14-2021 10:23 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill14564 (Post 1972673)
You have your opinion. About 1500 of those that shared your opinion died from/with COVID last week (and the week before and the week before that.....) Using the numbers from "one estimate," that particular opinion on taking the shot will keep COVID in contention for the fourth leading cause of death.
The most recent weekly death report was 154, not 1500..., Down 25% from the prior week...

COVID Data Tracker Weekly Review | CDC

Bill14564 07-14-2021 10:36 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by JMintzer (Post 1972854)
The most recent weekly death report was 154, not 1500..., Down 25% from the prior week...

COVID Data Tracker Weekly Review | CDC
I believe you will find that is the 7-day average of daily deaths.

154 -> 1078 deaths in a week
205 -> 1435 deaths in a week (1500 seemed close enough)

It's odd that those numbers are about 50 less than what the WaPo presents. It *could* be that the WaPo accumulates on the day the deaths were reported rather than assigning them to the day they occurred.

Wyseguy 07-14-2021 10:43 AM
Hard to know what to believe
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by billethkid (Post 1972288)
It would seem there is a message in the current run up in numbers of "cases".

Is the infection and or death rate acceptable to those choosing to not vaccinate?

The politicians, the media and ultimately medical experts are flip flopping daily and even within the day!

Any different than those who elect to not wear seat belts? Who elect to continue smoking? We don't see these numbers being reported daily in the headlines!!
What is the difference?
It is increasingly difficult to know what to believe in the press or social media. Last year I had my accounts first stamped with a fact check then my account was suspended. My crime was suggesting that the Covid was created in a lab. Back then the main media labeled anyone with such a view as a nut. The social media banned any posts. If you googled the origin of the virus there were no posts that offered a possibility of the lab leak.

Wyseguy 07-14-2021 10:46 AM
Fauci Is Not Credible
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Byte1 (Post 1972835)
Fauci is just a political hack. At one time he might have been at the top of his game, but he's been political for at least two decades. He might as well be a lawyer for all the credibility I give him.
Fauci, like Mueller and Biden, should have been retired many years ago. It is cruel to destroy the memory of people who have dedicated so many years to public service because some want to use them to further their extremist beliefs.

Bill14564 07-14-2021 10:50 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Becca9800 (Post 1972850)
Your previous assumption was incorrect? What does that say about you then? That you lacked the ability to identify 'unintelligent' when you saw it? That you ignorantly entrusted your life to the 'unintelligent'? So either your statement, "Previous assumptions were incorrect" is ignorant OR you were. I'm going to go w your statement, it is so beneath your usual responses.
Just to clear things up, "WHY would a previously assumed intelligent person not accept the vaccine?" Because the previous assumption that they were all intelligent persons was incorrect. Just because someone works in a medical office or wears a badge from a medical facility does not guarantee they have sound medical opinions.

But to turn the question around a little, if there is a good reason why these previously assumed intelligent persons did not accept the vaccine then what does it say about their coworkers who DID accept the vaccine?

I will absolutely question my choice of healthcare workers based on the choices I see them making.

Though to agree with part of your previous post - it is improper to demand to know if someone is vaccinated and mandates are the wrong way to go.

Wyseguy 07-14-2021 11:01 AM
Do you have herpes?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Girlcopper (Post 1972615)
True. Anyone smoking and dying from lung cancer or not wearing a seat belt and dying in a car accident isnt my problem. Its your stupid choice and doesnt affect me in any way.
Your not getting vaccinated affects me, my family and friends since this is a contagious virus. It isnt my choice to grt the virus. You forced it on me. Big difference in comparisons
Oral Herpes is a very contagious disease that infects and affects millions. I would like to know the status (pertaining to oral herpes) of my waiter and chef when I go out to restaurants. Someone with oral herpes can easily transmit the disease to a plate at a restaurant. This is the case even when dormant and there are no symptoms. As this directly affects the patron, should he have the right to see the recent test results of his waiter?

Bogie Shooter 07-14-2021 11:08 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Aces4 (Post 1972879)
Where the devil was Fauci’s indignation when the vice presidential candidate said she wouldn’t take the vaccine if it has President Trump’s support? Where was everyone’s indignation since that statement really kicked off the distrust since President Trump does support the vaccines. Talk about horrifying, Fauci should have been front and center on that one and VERY loud. Perhaps many people would be more confident now.
Now that is a POLITICAL POST!

Byte1 07-14-2021 11:13 AM
To preface my comment, I have my shots. That said, I do NOT encourage or discourage anyone from getting the vaccination. The reason I refuse to encourage my children and grandkids/great grandkids to get vaccinated with this vaccine is that I am NOT totally positive that there are not some possible negative side effects that may occur several years from now. I just do not know and they can not give us guarantees. I doubt I would believe them if they did. You can give me tons of subject matter to study, but the ONLY way one is to get true, historical facts is after a period of time. Since my children and grandchildren have had the virus (most of them) and have survived with little effort, hardly more than suffering a cold, I do not see the harm of them refusing the vaccination. If they get it, so be it. I will not discourage them from getting the shots. My opinion is that children should not be given the vaccination until we are sure it is essential. Yes, I understand there was much research and testing. BUT, I would feel much better after we have the results of the vaccinations after a decade or two to be sure something as serious as sterility or other forms of disease are not cased as a side effect.
Don't get me wrong, the vaccination HAS been a miracle and has saved probably millions of lives in the world. Would I have gotten the vaccination if not for my spouse's medical condition? Maybe not. Am I glad I did get my shots? So far, yes.
To summarize, the reason I will not encourage or discourage anyone to get the shot is that I do not want to be responsible for the guilt I would feel if I was instrumental in a bad reaction or permanent damage caused by the vaccine.

Rosebud1949 07-14-2021 11:18 AM
My should my death be in the hands of Anti Vaccers
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by camaguey48 (Post 1972374)
It's horrifying to see this weasel on television.
Why cant folk see that if we are all vaccinated the virus has no host to infect, pass on to others and possibly kill. How can you take that risk with family and loved ones. Insurance Co. may decided NOT to pay for hospitalizations for Covid and Varients. They may charge additional fees for those not fully vaccinated.

Why should Doctors and Nurses have to treat those who flaunt their "non vaccinated" attitude. I know its their job, but these non vaccinated folk wont help themselves, and just keep spreading it.

LianneMigiano 07-14-2021 11:19 AM
Schools will close if kids get it badly! There goes day care for working parents!
 
Food for thought for anti-vaxers..... If the schools have to close again what will they do for day care? All those two-family earners with young children will be unemployed again - just when so many states are doing away with enhanced unemployment benefits!

Aces4 07-14-2021 11:22 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bogie Shooter (Post 1972888)
Now that is a POLITICAL POST!
Not any more than that other guy pointing out Fauci’s horror at a “ conservative gatherings”. I simply pointed out the start of the whole public anti vaccine statements vs that other poster’s political posturing.

Surely you can see it’s not political.:)

GrumpyOldMan 07-14-2021 11:25 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Byte1 (Post 1972893)
To preface my comment, I have my shots. That said, I do NOT encourage or discourage anyone from getting the vaccination. The reason I refuse to encourage my children and grandkids/great grandkids to get vaccinated with this vaccine is that I am NOT totally positive that there are not some possible negative side effects that may occur several years from now. I just do not know and they can not give us guarantees. I doubt I would believe them if they did. You can give me tons of subject matter to study, but the ONLY way one is to get true, historical facts is after a period of time. Since my children and grandchildren have had the virus (most of them) and have survived with little effort, hardly more than suffering a cold, I do not see the harm of them refusing the vaccination. If they get it, so be it. I will not discourage them from getting the shots. My opinion is that children should not be given the vaccination until we are sure it is essential. Yes, I understand there was much research and testing. BUT, I would feel much better after we have the results of the vaccinations after a decade or two to be sure something as serious as sterility or other forms of disease are not cased as a side effect.
Don't get me wrong, the vaccination HAS been a miracle and has saved probably millions of lives in the world. Would I have gotten the vaccination if not for my spouse's medical condition? Maybe not. Am I glad I did get my shots? So far, yes.
To summarize, the reason I will not encourage or discourage anyone to get the shot is that I do not want to be responsible for the guilt I would feel if I was instrumental in a bad reaction or permanent damage caused by the vaccine.
Very good post, thank you.

Two things, not to argue but expand on what you say.

1. There will never be a guarantee. There was only be a reason to believe it is better than the alternative. I don't believe there is a single medication that is without side effects - and sometimes those side effects seem worse than the issue the medication is supposed to treat.

2. Time - I am not a doctor or medical researcher, I am not aware of what methods are available to predict long-term effects. I know in the computer industry. And long term reliability is a crucial component of total product life cycle costs for companies (it should be for people too, but most people impulse buy) There are numerous methods to do accelerated aging and to determine probably or expected component failures. Since the healthcare industry deals with people's lives and has a history of "oh darns" (Thalidomide among others) I would be amazed if they don't also have methodologies that allow for accelerated long-term outcome prediction.

Aces4 07-14-2021 11:27 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rosebud1949 (Post 1972897)
Why cant folk see that if we are all vaccinated the virus has no host to infect, pass on to others and possibly kill. How can you take that risk with family and loved ones. Insurance Co. may decided NOT to pay for hospitalizations for Covid and Varients. They may charge additional fees for those not fully vaccinated.

Why should Doctors and Nurses have to treat those who flaunt their "non vaccinated" attitude. I know its their job, but these non vaccinated folk wont help themselves, and just keep spreading it.
I don’t believe it will ever be eradicated. They are now looking into the possibility of another booster shot for the original vaccinations. It will just go on and on like influenza and probably keep morphing the same way.

GrumpyOldMan 07-14-2021 11:32 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rosebud1949 (Post 1972897)
Why cant folk see that if we are all vaccinated the virus has no host to infect, pass on to others and possibly kill.
That is a good point, but I think an even more important point is that the longer the virus is free to spread, it is also mutating (slower spread results in slower mutation rate) and the more mutations there are the more likely a WORSE variant will appear that the vaccines will not be effective against. And we have to start all over again.

And the economy will not withstand too many more shutdowns.

Quote:
Why should Doctors and Nurses have to treat those who flaunt their "non vaccinated" attitude. I know its their job, but these non vaccinated folk wont help themselves, and just keep spreading it.
Well, please understand I am posting the next partially "tongue in cheek", but many of those (not all) that refuse vaccinations also disagree with paying for healthcare for obese people, or at least believe health insurance companies should charge premiums to people that smoke, overweight, etc, etc.

So, what if hospitals refused to treat people COVID that were not vacinated?

Altavia 07-14-2021 11:33 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by nick demis (Post 1972820)
If you want to get vaccinated, do if, if not, don't. It has gotten to the point of, "who cares". What ever happened to the, "you mind your business and I'll mind mine".
Things have changed, this varient is a different animal, increasing numbers of children are ending up infected, in the hospital, on vents and dying. This is just the beginning.

Those closest to them are now besides themselves for not protecting their children from themselves.

GrumpyOldMan 07-14-2021 11:33 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Aces4 (Post 1972900)
Not any more than that other guy pointing out Fauci’s horror at a “ conservative gatherings”. I simply pointed out the start of the whole public anti vaccine statements vs that other poster’s political posturing.

Surely you can see it’s not political.:)
See it wasn't the gathering, or that they were conservatives, it was the lack of precautions taken to prevent infections.

Aces4 07-14-2021 11:38 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by GrumpyOldMan (Post 1972913)
See it wasn't the gathering, or that they were conservatives, it was the lack of precautions taken to prevent infections.
“Anthony Fauci said on Sunday that he was horrified to hear the crowd at a conservative gathering this weekend cheering anti-vaccination comments.


It was Fauci’s indignation at that political gathering giving vaccines a thumbs down. But the largest audience witnessing thumbs down came the night that question was asked during a debate which millions were watching and the answer was no. Hard to backtrack after that.

Dana1963 07-14-2021 11:39 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by billethkid (Post 1972288)
It would seem there is a message in the current run up in numbers of "cases".

Is the infection and or death rate acceptable to those choosing to not vaccinate?

The politicians, the media and ultimately medical experts are flip flopping daily and even within the day!

Any different than those who elect to not wear seat belts? Who elect to continue smoking? We don't see these numbers being reported daily in the headlines!!
What is the difference?
Only 15,000+ Covid cases reported by Florida 7/13/2021
"The state is reporting daily cases close to four times the national average...the second-highest number in the country. The state’s latest covid-19 death rate is almost double the national figure."

Byte1 07-14-2021 11:39 AM
I want to apologize for getting sidetracked on my recent post from the subject. It is easy to do when there are many other posters, with their own ideas.
I believe the subject of this thread was in regards to a "spike" in COVID infections? IMO the infection count is not as important as the stats on COVID related hospitalizations and especially COVID related deaths. Wasn't the ambition of the vaccinations aimed at lowering deaths and hospitalizations? Was there any guarantee that the vaccine would eliminate positive test results? No. The flu shot does not eliminate the FLU, it makes infections less dangerous for the vaccinated, right?
Stats show that the vaccinations OR weakening of the virus OR the rising immunity have resulted in less COVID related deaths. Sorry, I am not providing a "link" to such stats, but everyone here seems to have their own preference as to where the information must originate in order to pass their muster.

Byte1 07-14-2021 11:40 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Aces4 (Post 1972906)
I don’t believe it will ever be eradicated. They are now looking into the possibility of another booster shot for the original vaccinations. It will just go on and on like influenza and probably keep morphing the same way.
Last I heard, the CDC (:1rotfl:) said that a booster is not necessary. Did that change again?

Aces4 07-14-2021 11:45 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Byte1 (Post 1972921)
Last I heard, the CDC (:1rotfl:) said that a booster is not necessary. Did that change again?
Yeah, it was a sound byte on the news yesterday. I don’t get why that would be funny but if boosters do it for you, go for it.:BigApplause:


CNN Friday stated that Pfizer has seen waning efficacy in immunity and third dose may be necessary 6-12 months after vaccination.

Byte1 07-14-2021 11:55 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Aces4 (Post 1972923)
Yeah, it was a sound byte on the news yesterday. I don’t get why that would be funny but if boosters do it for you, go for it.:BigApplause:


CNN Friday stated that Pfizer has seen waning efficacy in immunity and third dose may be necessary 6-12 months after vaccination.
Sorry, the laughing emoji was supposed to be associated with the current reputation that the CDC has in the public eye/news by many Americans. We have received so much "evolved" changes in their directives that many find it difficult to grant them the credibility or respect that I am sure they deserve.

GrumpyOldMan 07-14-2021 12:00 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Aces4 (Post 1972906)
I don’t believe it will ever be eradicated. They are now looking into the possibility of another booster shot for the original vaccinations. It will just go on and on like influenza and probably keep morphing the same way.
The chances are you are right. It will not be easy. Smallpox, Polio, etc, are not eradicated, but are "controlled".

The Influenza virus is not eradicated and is related to the corona virus. To eradicate it would require massive mandatory vaccinations worldwide. And they would have to address all current variants and would have to be distributed faster than the virus could mutate.

Not a likely outcome.

So, we are likely entering into an era of cyclic profit for the vaccine companies where we get vaccinations every year for this year's variant.

Of course, the problem is we don't know if that will slow COVID as effectively as it does the seasonal flu.

Aces4 07-14-2021 12:01 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Byte1 (Post 1972932)
Sorry, the laughing emoji was supposed to be associated with the current reputation that the CDC has in the public eye/news by many Americans. We have received so much "evolved" changes in their directives that many find it difficult to grant them the credibility or respect that I am sure they deserve.
Ah, I agree that makes sense.


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