[Villages PL]

Some were disappointed that the conversation was limited to hospitals, smoking and being overweight. It was limited because I was referencing an article I read in the newspaper. And I happened to add "being overweight."

But this thread is open to EVERYTHING that might raise health care costs. That means smoking, being overweight, being anorexic, driving too fast, being an alcoholic, or a drug user, etc..

My position: I stand for greater accountability in all areas where lifestyle plays a role. If people don't take personal responsibility to live a healthy lifestyle, they should be the ones to pay higher health insurance premiums. Higher costs should not be shifted to those who play by the rules.

Note: Getting older is not a lifestyle choice. Everyone gets older whether they like it or not.

[graciegirl]

What if the insurance folks would decide that being a vegan was unhealthy? And raise your premiums?

Who is going to make these decisions? I just read that my insurance says it is "wise" to get mammogram screening until 69. Hmmm I feel that screenings may well stop being reimbursed for older women. It is also "suggested" you get pap tests until you are 65. Who is in charge of these guidelines?

We will soon know.

[Parker]

Sigh. How I miss the good old days when we all paid a modest monthly fee for great coverage that paid for everything. One didn't even have to think about it. No options, checking fine print for exclusions, etc. Can't we go back there?

[ilovetv]

Originally Posted by Parker

Sigh. How I miss the good old days when we all paid a modest monthly fee for great coverage that paid for everything. One didn't even have to think about it. No options, checking fine print for exclusions, etc. Can't we go back there?

I wouldn't want to go back to the days of the dr. having nothing to offer except aspirin, penicillin shots and cobalt treatments for dreaded diseases. The incredible technology and knowledge we now have comes with a high price of research and development over decades for a single treatment, and medical workers' pay......all of which have to be heavily insured. When a major drug fails once approved and in use, like Vioxx...the lawsuits go on in perpetuity.

I do think however that people would be more accountable for their medical spending if THEY got the insurance payment to then pay the drs, hospitals and providers. Most people have NO idea how much they are spending and do not shop around for less costly treatment for things that can wait a bit.....or for things that have simple, over-the-counter remedies. Many people run to the ER for things responsible people would put a band-aid on.

[Suzi]

Originally Posted by Villages PL

Some were disappointed that the conversation was limited to hospitals, smoking and being overweight. It was limited because I was referencing an article I read in the newspaper. And I happened to add "being overweight."

But this thread is open to EVERYTHING that might raise health care costs. That means smoking, being overweight, being anorexic, driving too fast, being an alcoholic, or a drug user, etc..

My position: I stand for greater accountability in all areas where lifestyle plays a role. If people don't take personal responsibility to live a healthy lifestyle, they should be the ones to pay higher health insurance premiums. Higher costs should not be shifted to those who play by the rules.

Note: Just the fact of getting older is not a lifestyle choice. Everyone gets older whether they like it or not.

I absolutely agree. If I learned that, without any question, that ANY refined sugar was the cause of dementia (as an example), I would give it up in a NY minute. Those who couldn't give it up, should pay more for their medical insurance. Its the same for other "choices" that we make. As Americans we are fortunate to have the freedoms to do many things. But with those freedoms comes extra self responsibility. In Michigan you can drive a motorcycle with or without a helmet. If you choose to ride without, you must prove that you have extra (catastropic) insurance. Seems fair doesn't it? How about jobs. Should people who choose not to have a job be afforded the same priviledges that people who have jobs? I really like to have a nice big, fat lobster once a month. But I worked hard all my life to put money away so that I could afford that treat. Should someone who spent every penny they ever had in their pocket be afforded the same treat? No, of course not. We all make choices, good or bad, and we all have to be responsible for those choices. I had 2 children because I could only afford 2. And this was before BCP's. I love children, I love my grandkids (and everyone elses too) but I was a responsible person and knew my limit. So, is it fair that I restrict myself but other people have as many as they choose?

Yes, I believe that self responsibility is one of our greatest faults in America.

[gomoho]

BUT... how is it fair I give up things I enjoy so I can have a lower insurance premium, but someone else is doing whatever they please and don't have to worry about the cost of the premium 'cause the government is covering the cost???

I am not talking about the fact I may live longer and healthier, but just the cost of my insurance premium affected by what I do while someone on the government's role does not have the same responsibility or suffer the consequence as a result of this choice.

[KeepingItReal]

Originally Posted by graciegirl

What if the insurance folks would decide that being a vegan was unhealthy? And raise your premiums?

Who is going to make these decisions? I just read that my insurance says it is "wise" to get mammogram screening until 69. Hmmm I feel that screenings may well stop being reimbursed for older women. It is also "suggested" you get pap tests until you are 65. Who is in charge of these guidelines?

We will soon know.

Excellent question Gracie, many already note there are many risks to being vegan.

Age will soon be a primary determining factor, if not the only factor, for very expensive health treatments and procedures though no one will dare admit it right now.

[KeepingItReal]

Originally Posted by Villages PL

My position: I stand for greater accountability in all areas where lifestyle plays a role. If people don't take personal responsibility to live a healthy lifestyle, they should be the ones to pay higher health insurance premiums. Higher costs should not be shifted to those who play by the rules.

Note: Just the fact of getting older is not a lifestyle choice. Everyone gets older whether they like it or not.

Too bad, but it makes absolutely no difference where we stand as it won't change a thing. Are you saying you are playing by the rules? If so by whose rules are you playing?

[Easyrider]

Originally Posted by Villages PL

Some were disappointed that the conversation was limited to hospitals, smoking and being overweight. It was limited because I was referencing an article I read in the newspaper. And I happened to add "being overweight."

But this thread is open to EVERYTHING that might raise health care costs. That means smoking, being overweight, being anorexic, driving too fast, being an alcoholic, or a drug user, etc..

My position: I stand for greater accountability in all areas where lifestyle plays a role. If people don't take personal responsibility to live a healthy lifestyle, they should be the ones to pay higher health insurance premiums. Higher costs should not be shifted to those who play by the rules.

Note: Just the fact of getting older is not a lifestyle choice. Everyone gets older whether they like it or not.

Would have to disagree, age would have to included in the list of things that raise health care costs. Many are already arguing that that older people should be paying a lot more for health insurance since it's the older people that are a heavy burden on the health care system...Age is the main driver of the costs.

Do you think younger healthier people that seldom need health care should pay more to cover older people and those with pre-existing conditions while you pay less?

To apply your thinking would you argue that health insurance premiums should not go up as we get older and if so why?

What if all health premiums started going up say 5-10% each year after we reach say 60 since we are more likely to need health care each day we live.

Since you say we are all ageing like it or not it sounds fair if applied to everyone. View the numbers below and estimate the daily costs.....We all know a great number of these residents bills are being paid by only Medicaid after Medicare pays for the first 100 days or so.

http://www.nolo.com/legal-encycloped...ed-living.html

Nursing homes are getting even more expensive -- with the average price tag now standing at more than $80,000 per year.
NEW YORK (CNNMoney)
The cost of living at a nursing home has soared to a new high of more than $80,000 per year.
Over the past five years, the median annual cost of private nursing home care has jumped 24% from $67,527 to $83,950, according to Genworth's 2013 Cost of Care Survey, based on data from nearly 15,000 long-term care providers. From 2012 to 2013 alone, the price climbed 4%.




Facts about Nursing Homes

There are 17,000 nursing homes in the United States.

1.6 million people live in nursing homes.

The average number of beds per home is 107, with an occupancy rate of 88 percent.

More than 90 percent of current residents are 65 years of age and over. Almost half are 85 years or over.

The average age upon admission to a nursing home is 79.

Women are almost three times as likely to live in nursing homes than men.

In 2000, 4.5 percent of Americans 65 years and older lived in nursing homes, a decline from 5.1 percent in 1990.

In 1999-2000, the average nursing facility patient required assistance with 3.75 activities of daily living. Five common activities are used to measure the functionality of a patient - bathing, dressing, transferring, toileting and eating.

42 percent of nursing home patients suffer from some level of dementia.

33 percent of nursing home patients have documented symptoms of depression.

67 percent of nursing home facilities were for-profit in 1999-2000, 26 percent were nonprofit and 7 percent were government owned and operated.


Sources: American Health Care Association, American Association of Homes and Services for the Aging.



view-source:http://kff.org/other/state-indicator...ity-residents/

Total Number of Residents in Certified Nursing Facilities
View Table in New Window

Location
Number of Nursing Facility Residents

Alabama 22,759
Alaska 621
Arizona 11,507
Arkansas 18,033
California 100,065
Colorado 13,724
Connecticut 25,493
Delaware 4,266
District of Columbia 2,588
Florida 72,373
Georgia 27,564
Hawaii 3,012
Idaho 4,276
Illinois 74,564
Indiana 39,045
Iowa 25,165
Kansas 18,497
Kentucky 22,680
Louisiana 25,522
Maine 6,345
Maryland 24,432
Massachusetts 42,160
Michigan 39,683
Minnesota 28,150
Mississippi 16,342
Missouri 37,329
Montana 4,729
Nebraska 12,227
Nevada 4,732
New Hampshire 6,892
New Jersey 45,443
New Mexico 5,447
New York 107,480
North Carolina 37,399
North Dakota 5,737
Ohio 77,702
Oklahoma 19,694
Oregon 6,982
Pennsylvania 80,310
Rhode Island 8,076
South Carolina 17,143
South Dakota 6,448
Tennessee 29,910
Texas 92,359
Utah 3,855
Vermont 2,848
Virginia 28,168
Washington 17,597
West Virginia 7,155
Wisconsin 29,467
Wyoming 2,395

[Barefoot]

Originally Posted by graciegirl

What if the insurance folks would decide that being a vegan was unhealthy? And raise your premiums.

Originally Posted by KeepingItReal

Too bad, but it makes absolutely no difference where we stand as it won't change a thing. Are you saying you are playing by the rules? If so by whose rules are you playing?

Originally Posted by Villages PL

But this thread is open to EVERYTHING that might raise health care costs. That means smoking, being overweight, being anorexic, driving too fast, being an alcoholic, or a drug user, etc..

My position: I stand for greater accountability in all areas where lifestyle plays a role. If people don't take personal responsibility to live a healthy lifestyle, they should be the ones to pay higher health insurance premiums. Higher costs should not be shifted to those who play by the rules.

Who would make the decision on defining a "healthy lifestyle, and what criteria should be used? For instance ... I haven't eaten red meat in seven years! During a recent surgery, I lost a lot of blood and was prescribed iron pills which aren't doing the trick. The doctors are suggesting that I should include red meat as a daily part of my regular diet to buildup my blood iron and become healthier.

[Villages PL]

Originally Posted by graciegirl

What if the insurance folks would decide that being a vegan was unhealthy? And raise your premiums?

Insurance companies usually have statistics to go by. For example, I believe if you buy a convertible car you will be charged a higher insurance premium. Partly it's because people riding in convertables do less well in rollover crashes etc.. We assume the cost of the insurance policy will be fair because many companies will be competing for your business.

Who is going to make these decisions? I just read that my insurance says it is "wise" to get mammogram screening until 69. Hmmm I feel that screenings may well stop being reimbursed for older women. It is also "suggested" you get pap tests until you are 65. Who is in charge of these guidelines?

First wait to see if they stop paying for older women. They might not. They have also said that PSA tests for men are of little or no value, but HMOs are still offering them at no cost to the patient. If they stop paying, we always have the option of going to a doctor and paying for it ourselves. Who's in charge of these guidelines? The free market will decide based on statistics. We have competition between HMOs and insurance companies.

[Villages PL]

Originally Posted by gomoho

BUT... how is it fair I give up things I enjoy so I can have a lower insurance premium, but someone else is doing whatever they please and don't have to worry about the cost of the premium 'cause the government is covering the cost???

I am not talking about the fact I may live longer and healthier, but just the cost of my insurance premium affected by what I do while someone on the government's role does not have the same responsibility or suffer the consequence as a result of this choice.

I think you might be referring to those who are on medicaid. Those who are on medicaid usually receive food "stamps" too. Perhaps there should be stricter rules on what they can buy with their food-stamp-card. How about "no processed foods" like chips 'n' dips, cookies, donuts, ice cream, frozen pizza etc.? Just natural whole foods.

[Villages PL]

Originally Posted by KeepingItReal

Excellent question Gracie, many already note there are many risks to being vegan.

That's true because there may be some vegans who are not primarily interested in optimizing their health. Their main interest may have to do with the humane treatment of animals. They might like to drink lots of soda and eat BIG pancake breakfasts with lots of syrup etc.. The same could be said of carnivores who eat poor diets. This means testing of some sort is needed, just like they are doing at some hospitals to make sure their employees are not smoking. They could also test for weight, cholesterol, blood pressure etc.. A poor diet usually shows up in those numbers.

Age will soon be a primary determining factor, if not the only factor, for very expensive health treatments and procedures though no one will dare admit it right now.

It's already happening to a certain extent. Some hospitals have been known to turn people away because of their age. Big operations get riskier as one gets older and some hospitals don't want to take the risk.

[Villages PL]

Originally Posted by KeepingItReal

Too bad, but it makes absolutely no difference where we stand as it won't change a thing. Are you saying you are playing by the rules? If so by whose rules are you playing?

Rules, or generally accepted guidlines, can be found in many places. For example, the American Lung Association, the American Heart Association, the American Cancer Society and the American Diabetes Association, to name a few. Then there's the Center for Disease Control and Prevention.

Most people agree that smoking is an unhealthy habit and raises one's risk for lung disease, cardiovascular disease etc.. Most people agree that being overweight puts one at greater risk for heart disease, cancer, diabetes, etc.. So there are many (common sense) rules based on multiple long term studies.

Do I play by the rules? Absolutely! And I saw my doctor yesterday. The nurse said, "I would pay to have your numbers", keep doing whatever you're doing." My blood pressure was 95/55 (And I don't take any medication). All of my numbers are consistently good. Once, a few years ago, my blood glucose was at 100. I worked on it and on my next blood test it was 86. Anyone can do it. It's just a matter of taking one's health seriously and taking action. I don't take my health for granted. BTW, at the end of my office visit, my doctor said, "okay, we have to get you out of here, healthy people in my office is bad for business." ;-)

[Barefoot]

Originally Posted by Villages PL

.... at the end of my office visit, my doctor said, "okay, we have to get you out of here, healthy people in my office is bad for business."

We always like to hear of a fellow member getting good test results. If you are also happy and living a joyous lifestyle, then congratulations to you.