[golfing eagles]

Originally Posted by Justputt

I wouldn't be too quick to assume anyone walked away with the money, although that is possible. I retired from a hospital that was historically comfortably in the black pre-COVID and post-COVID grossing more money than ever but still losing $2M/month in large part because locum expenses and government's continued bundling and payment reductions. Many in healthcare left during and after COVID because of burnout, COVID/post-COVID culture changes, skimping on staff because of personal shortages, consolidation with "stronger/bigger" hospitals with different priorities, etc. I wouldn't be surprised if most of the money was burnt trying to keep operations running. But we'll have to wait and see.

Absolutely, positively the most likely scenario. But time will tell. The naiver posters on these threads believe that if there is an "overcharge", that money is just sitting in a drawer (or somebody's pocket). They have no concept of operational expenses

[BillyGrown]

I’m not sure what I’m disappointed about most. The thought of losing my provider or the Developer being so greedy. This doesn’t need settled as a bankruptcy as much as we all need to know and perhaps get back all the money that was stolen.

[dewilson58]

Originally Posted by BillyGrown

I’m not sure what I’m disappointed about most. The thought of losing my provider or the Developer being so greedy. This doesn’t need settled as a bankruptcy as much as we all need to know and perhaps get back all the money that was stolen.

What's your proof of greed??

[Aces4]

Originally Posted by golfing eagles

Absolutely, positively the most likely scenario. But time will tell. The naiver posters on these threads believe that if there is an "overcharge", that money is just sitting in a drawer (or somebody's pocket). They have no concept of operational expenses

But then again many of us have a great concept of operational expenses AND profits! And then to top it off you have Medicare Advantage, anything you want for free. Well, if you were able to get what you needed..

[golfing eagles]

Originally Posted by dewilson58

What's your proof of greed??

Or for that matter, what's his proof that the money was "stolen"????

[Stu from NYC]

Originally Posted by golfing eagles

Or for that matter, what's his proof that the money was "stolen"????

Forensic accts should be able to figure out where the money went

[dewilson58]

Originally Posted by Stu from NYC

Forensic accts should be able to figure out where the money went

Very easy to do, but we are miles away from "stolen", "greed", "throw the family in jail".

[tophcfa]

Originally Posted by Stu from NYC

Forensic accts should be able to figure out where the money went

Originally Posted by dewilson58

Very easy to do, but we are miles away from "stolen", "greed", "throw the family in jail".

Agreed, that’s all speculation. What is troublesome though, is the seeming resistance to open up the books, as evidenced by the insider DIP financing. One would think that if there is nothing to hide, TVH would be eager to open up the books to quell speculation and exonerate themselves?

[dewilson58]

Originally Posted by tophcfa

Agreed, that’s all speculation. What is troublesome though, is the seeming resistance to open up the books, as evidenced by the insider DIP financing. One would think that if there is nothing to hide, TVH would be eager to open up the books to quell speculation and exonerate themselves?

They are private companies.
They have no obligation to "open up the books" to the public.
I've never a privately held company wanting to open books to the public.

[Stu from NYC]

Originally Posted by dewilson58

Very easy to do, but we are miles away from "stolen", "greed", "throw the family in jail".

I suspect some of the above but there are others in a better position to determine what happened.

[tophcfa]

Originally Posted by dewilson58

They are private companies.
They have no obligation to "open up the books" to the public.
I've never a privately held company wanting to open books to the public.

I’m well aware that private companies aren’t required to “open up their books”. I had private placement lending specialists reporting to me when I managed the portfolio of a large life insurance company. That being said, not having an obligation to open up their books didn’t keep the private companies we lent to from opening up their books to us. If a company has nothing to hide, they would absolutely be willing to open up their books in exchange for more favorable loan terms. A couple of rules I always followed throughout my career was that I never did business with Companies that shielded transparency and I always ran away when seemingly expedited time constraints were imposed on a transaction. TVH appears to be taking evasive actions regarding transparency as well as pushing very hard for an expedited sale. Two huge red flags!

[BrianL99]

Originally Posted by tophcfa

Agreed, that’s all speculation. What is troublesome though, is the seeming resistance to open up the books, as evidenced by the insider DIP financing. ...

Originally Posted by dewilson58

They are private companies.
They have no obligation to "open up the books" to the public.
I've never a privately held company wanting to open books to the public.

Originally Posted by tophcfa

I’m well aware that private companies aren’t required to “open up their books”.
... TVH appears to be taking evasive actions regarding transparency as well as pushing very hard for an expedited sale. Two huge red flags!

"The books" are open. The Bankruptcy court isn't going to approve any DIP financing, without having a clear understanding of TVH's financial condition.

The legal "look back" period runs 1-4 years under Federal Law, depending on the circumstances. There are no secrets in Bankruptcy, especially one of this type.

[jimbomaybe]

Originally Posted by tophcfa

I’m well aware that private companies aren’t required to “open up their books”. I had private placement lending specialists reporting to me when I managed the portfolio of a large life insurance company. That being said, not having an obligation to open up their books didn’t keep the private companies we lent to from opening up their books to us. If a company has nothing to hide, they would absolutely be willing to open up their books in exchange for more favorable loan terms. A couple of rules I always followed throughout my career was that I never did business with Companies that shielded transparency and I always ran away when seemingly expedited time constraints were imposed on a transaction. TVH appears to be taking evasive actions regarding transparency as well as pushing very hard for an expedited sale. Two huge red flags!

Perhaps you knowledge can inform my lack ? Who would buy a failing business without examining the books ?

[tophcfa]

Originally Posted by jimbomaybe

Perhaps you knowledge can inform my lack ? Who would buy a failing business without examining the books ?

As best as I can tell, Centerwell (Humana) is willing to pay $50 million for essentially taking over the 55 thousand Villages Health patients. That is essentially the only asset they will be purchasing, since there won’t be any tangible assets remaining after the creditors bankruptcy claims. My guess is that Humana would back out in a heartbeat if the bankruptcy court attaches any of TVH’s unsettled liabilities to the sale. Another concern would be if Florida Blue’s objection is honored by the bankruptcy court, which would be to void the assignability of their MA contracts if TVH does not make good on the over billing associated with their contracts. Humana must believe that after shelling out $50 million upfront, they can generate enough future profit providing health care to TVH’s 55 thousand patients, using CMS compliant billing, to meet their hurdle internal rate of return. Humana obviously believes they can operate more cost efficiently than TVH, or they wouldn’t want to take on the acquisition risk.

[Mrprez]

According to a small article on the front page of the newspaper, TVH has accepted Centerwell’s offer pending approval by the bankruptcy court. The court is expected to make a ruling today.