[rrthoresen]

Don’t know any of the chiropractors. But maybe the clue was that they had openings and the others did not?

[Cybersprings]

Originally Posted by rrthoresen

Don’t know any of the chiropractors. But maybe the clue was that they had openings and the others did not?

No problem taking a swipe with no knowledge of the people. Nice.

[golfing eagles]

Originally Posted by Cybersprings

I see. Maybe it's like this other person I knew who was a retired doctor intimidated by people who don't prescribe drugs after getting wined and dined by drug companies. Too bad chiropractic is not real medicine like prescribing Thalidomide to pregnant mothers.

Originally Posted by Cybersprings

And since it is wikipedia, there is clearly only objective information.

Wow, your insight is amazing. You've got this whole practice of medicine nailed down---kickbacks, dinners, golf outings---physicians basically owned by drug companies and doing their bidding. Yep---how did you know???? And thalidomide is a great example---a drug banned by the FDA in 1962. How about leeches and bloodletting? they were used by doctors 300 years ago as well. Thank God we have chiropractors to heal the wounded and cure the sick.

But seriously, the ignorance exhibited in those posts is astounding. Pharmaceutical reps can't even give out free pens.

But the best is citing "Wikipedia" as an objective source. Yep----if it's on the internet it must be true.

[wisbad1]

Originally Posted by Denbal82

///

They start you out with the top guy and then pawn you down to some other guy. Way too expensive, I’d rather stand in shower, feel better.

[Pugchief]

Originally Posted by rrthoresen

Don’t know any of the chiropractors. But maybe the clue was that they had openings and the others did not?

Or maybe they had a last minute cancelation and the others did not. I love when people think they are mind readers.

Some people think chiro is voodoo. Others, like myself, have had years of relief from good chiropractors. The reality is that not all chiros are talented (someone had to graduate last in the class) but good ones are gold.

As far as billing, if they are IN-network, they can only bill for allowed procedures and only up to the maximum contracted amount. It's the system that has them charge more for initial visit vs periodic, and the system that has them take xrays and do a thorough evaluation lest they be sued for missing something.

[Cybersprings]

Originally Posted by golfing eagles

Wow, your insight is amazing. You've got this whole practice of medicine nailed down---kickbacks, dinners, golf outings---physicians basically owned by drug companies and doing their bidding. Yep---how did you know???? And thalidomide is a great example---a drug banned by the FDA in 1962. How about leeches and bloodletting? they were used by doctors 300 years ago as well. Thank God we have chiropractors to heal the wounded and cure the sick.

But seriously, the ignorance exhibited in those posts is astounding. Pharmaceutical reps can't even give out free pens.

But the best is citing "Wikipedia" as an objective source. Yep----if it's on the internet it must be true.

Cute. Say it like it's a fact and say it arrogantly and I guess you think people will believe it.

But, from the NIH:

"Financial payments from the drug industry to US physicians are common. Payments may influence physicians' clinical decision-making and drug prescribing.

"https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8315858/#:~:text=Financial%20payments%20from%20the%20drug, decision%2Dmaking%20and%20drug%20prescribing.

So, try again on convincing everyone how knowledgable and virtuous you are and how ignorant I am.

The example of Thalidomide was old, just very easy and known by everyone in our age group. There are many examples of drugs prescribed by doctors that have since been taken off the market or limited due to the harm they caused.

And if you bothered to read my post, I said "Thank God" (paraphased) people stay in their own lane and do what they know. I never claimed that doctors are not hugely valuable. Just don't try to tear down other practictioners because you think you are so much better. You know what they call a medical student that graduates last in their class, right?

The level of hubris in your posts is also astounding.

[golfing eagles]

Originally Posted by Cybersprings

Cute. Say it like it's a fact and say it arrogantly and I guess you think people will believe it.

But, from the NIH:

"Financial payments from the drug industry to US physicians are common. Payments may influence physicians' clinical decision-making and drug prescribing.

"https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8315858/#:~:text=Financial%20payments%20from%20the%20drug, decision%2Dmaking%20and%20drug%20prescribing.

So, try again on convincing everyone how knowledgable and virtuous you are and how ignorant I am.

The example of Thalidomide was old, just very easy and known by everyone in our age group. There are many examples of drugs prescribed by doctors that have since been taken off the market or limited due to the harm they caused.

And if you bothered to read my post, I said "Thank God" (paraphased) people stay in their own lane and do what they know. I never claimed that doctors are not hugely valuable. Just don't try to tear down other practictioners because you think you are so much better. You know what they call a medical student that graduates last in their class, right?

The level of hubris in your posts is also astounding.

Please see post #38 which followed yours, but let's play anyway

The NIH is clueless about what goes on in the real world, great for research, not so good on a daily basis, so i have no idea what they were babbling about. Could a few doctors be influenced by some illegal payments? I'm sure they're out there. But pretty rare.

Didn't claim that you were ignorant, just the content of some of your posts. I'm sure you're intelligent when it comes to subject matter you are familiar with, but medicine is clearly not it.

Oh, and do I merely think I am a better health care practitioner than a chiropractor? No, I know it. Not even close

[JMintzer]

Originally Posted by Cybersprings

I see. Maybe it's like this other person I knew who was a retired doctor intimidated by people who don't prescribe drugs after getting wined and dined by drug companies. Too bad chiropractic is not real medicine like prescribing Thalidomide to pregnant mothers.

Thalidomide?

That was last used when?

I'm surprised you didn't bring up the "Leeches" and "Blood Letting" lobbies...


Edit to add: Damn! I broke my own rule about posting before reading thru the thread...

[JMintzer]

Originally Posted by Cybersprings

Cute. Say it like it's a fact and say it arrogantly and I guess you think people will believe it.

But, from the NIH:

"Financial payments from the drug industry to US physicians are common. Payments may influence physicians' clinical decision-making and drug prescribing.

"https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8315858/#:~:text=Financial%20payments%20from%20the%20drug, decision%2Dmaking%20and%20drug%20prescribing.

So, try again on convincing everyone how knowledgable and virtuous you are and how ignorant I am.

The example of Thalidomide was old, just very easy and known by everyone in our age group. There are many examples of drugs prescribed by doctors that have since been taken off the market or limited due to the harm they caused.

And if you bothered to read my post, I said "Thank God" (paraphased) people stay in their own lane and do what they know. I never claimed that doctors are not hugely valuable. Just don't try to tear down other practictioners because you think you are so much better. You know what they call a medical student that graduates last in their class, right?

The level of hubris in your posts is also astounding.

""Financial payments from the drug industry to US physicians are common."

Wait, what? WHERE'S MY MONEY???

The most I ever got was donuts...

[golfing eagles]

Originally Posted by JMintzer

""Financial payments from the drug industry to US physicians are common."

Wait, what? WHERE'S MY MONEY???

The most I ever got was donuts...

You got donuts????? Really?????

I'm pretty sure I've prescribed 10x as many drugs as you, just by the nature of our specialties, but I never got a donut. That sucks. I feel cheated!!! Maybe the NIH confiscated my donuts

But I'm pretty sure if I could have caused some phocomelia with thalidomide they would have given me 2 donuts. And maybe a croissant for every case of gyn cancer from DES. But if I revive the treatment protocols of Theodoric of Yok, medieval barber, I might get a hamburger from Mcdonald's. NAH!

[golfing eagles]

Originally Posted by JMintzer

Thalidomide?

That was last used when?

I'm surprised you didn't bring up the "Leeches" and "Blood Letting" lobbies...


Edit to add: Damn! I broke my own rule about posting before reading thru the thread...

I thought it was a strange reference to bring up---thalidomide.

But my wife came back from her dental appointment a little while ago and she saw an article---now get this----in "People" magazine about thalidomide victims that are still alive today.

So now we know the source of the thalidomide reference---"People" magazine
Maybe the claim that drug companies pay physicians can be found in "people" as well. Right next to the dress so and so wore to the Oscars and whose celebrity marriage is on the rocks. At least now we know what we are dealing with.

[JMintzer]

Originally Posted by golfing eagles

You got donuts????? Really?????

I'm pretty sure I've prescribed 10x as many drugs as you, just by the nature of our specialties, but I never got a donut. That sucks. I feel cheated!!! Maybe the NIH confiscated my donuts

But I'm pretty sure if I could have caused some phocomelia with thalidomide they would have given me 2 donuts. And maybe a croissant for every case of gyn cancer from DES. But if I revive the treatment protocols of Theodoric of Yok, medieval barber, I might get a hamburger from Mcdonald's. NAH!

[Cybersprings]

Originally Posted by golfing eagles

I thought it was a strange reference to bring up---thalidomide.

But my wife came back from her dental appointment a little while ago and she saw an article---now get this----in "People" magazine about thalidomide victims that are still alive today.

So now we know the source of the thalidomide reference---"People" magazine
Maybe the claim that drug companies pay physicians can be found in "people" as well. Right next to the dress so and so wore to the Oscars and whose celebrity marriage is on the rocks. At least now we know what we are dealing with.

The source of the Thalidomide reference is that it is common knowledge to everyone in our age group. The fact that People magazine covered it (which I never saw because I don't read People but get your reference material wherever you choose), is proof of the common knowledge part of it. Although your point about it being very old is not relevant, here are some more recent ones:
1) VALDECOXIB
It was an NSAID pain medication that had been in the market from 2001-2005 but this was recalled by the FDA in 2005 because it was causing adverse heart effects including heart attack, and severe serious skin reactions like epidermal necrolysis and erythema multiforme.

2) PEMOLINE
It was a nerve stimulant drug that was used to treat ADD and ADHD till 2010. It was firstly given a slight warning in 1999, but due to no further improvement, it was finally recalled and now it is among those drugs that are banned in the US.

3) SIBUTRAMINE
It was an appetite suppressant drug that was causing serious heart threats to the patients who used to take it, so it was banned by the FDA reviewer Dr. David Graham in the senate hearing of 2004. Now it is a completely banned drug in the USA by the FDA.

4) TROGLITAZONE
It was used as an antidiabetic and anti-inflammatory drug in the span of 1997-2000 but due to its severe adverse effects on liver and heart lead to lawsuits and ultimately a recall by the FDA.

5) EFALIZUMAB
This chemical drug was used to treat psoriasis but it caused progressive multifocal leukoencephalopathy in many patients who then had to face inflammation and damage to their central nervous system, so it was recalled in 2009

The point which you are so strongly trying to divert from is that medical doctors are not so above reproach that they can start asserting that chiropractic is a scam. In fact, "10 percent of all U.S. deaths are now due to medical error" which is the 3rd leading cause of death in the U.S.

Study Suggests Medical Errors Now Third Leading Cause of Death in the U.S. - 05/03/2016

I know, I know, since it contradicts your point of view, we will discount it as only Johns Hopkins, not a reputable source, just like the National Institute of Health.

My point in this discussion has never been to attack or disrespect doctors. I have great respect for many in the medical profession. My point has been, don't act all high and mighty attacking a profession that has done great medical benefit to many and has killed way less than your profession.

And the whole vibe in the posts from the two (obvious) doctors in this thread totally reinforces the stereotype of arrogant and dismissive, which results in the 3rd highest cause of death.

That is a real shame. So sad as to preclude me throwing a bunch of ROFL emojis in my post to try to make me seem so much better than others.

[Cybersprings]

Originally Posted by JMintzer

""Financial payments from the drug industry to US physicians are common."

Wait, what? WHERE'S MY MONEY???

The most I ever got was donuts...

Wait. The other doctor made it clear they couldn't give so much as a pen. You must be making up some wild story about receiving donuts since THAT could never happen according to your colleague.

[JMintzer]

Originally Posted by Cybersprings

Wait. The other doctor made it clear they couldn't give so much as a pen. You must be making up some wild story about receiving donuts since THAT could never happen according to your colleague.

That was 20+ years ago, before they changed the rules...

They also used to give us pens and post-it notes...

I can't be bought by donuts, but post-it notes? I'll write for any drug you got!