[joerocker]

Originally Posted by swimdawg

I like to remain "open" but I'm with you, Eliz, on this one. I turned 70 last year and I declared it "The Decade of the Fun"! (like the Chinese Year of the Cat, Rat, Dog, etc). So.....of course, I told all my friends that this is The Decade of the FUN. One of my closest friends was going out to Colorado to visit her brother. Mind you, I never even smoked a cigarette no less MJ! So I told her, "Barb....this is 'The Decade of the Fun', let's try marijuana." You can try it out there....and then we'll try it here". So....her brother, who was ill, had a "brownie". She enjoyed a bit of the brownie.....til her heart started racing and she felt terrible. Her head was spinning and she was up all night long. She said, "No way, Karen!" So....since I am super sensitive to medications, I will never try it. I can't even enjoy a cup of decaf coffee after 3 PM, so the idea of trying something that might rev me up is a real turn off.

Bottom line: There are side effects to every single medication and certainly a lot of side effects to marijuana. No thanks!!!!

Your friend had WAY too much. I'd compare it to someone who has never had an alcoholic drink sitting down and doing shots of whiskey. She/you need to take 1 small toke (one puff will not harm your lungs) from a pipe or a joint. And wait. It should be enough to give you a very (why so many want it legalized) pleasant feeling, the "buzz". Do is somewhere you feel comfortable, with some music. You may move to Colorado. You'll certainly change your stance on legality. You just feel good. And isn't that what it's all about? We eat fine food to feel good. Drink fine wine to feel good. Have friends that make us feel good. Pick a partner because they make us feel good. We seek things that make us feel good.

Originally Posted by PennBF

It is so sad that a number of individuals believe that Marijuana is OK and nothing worst than alcholol, or it is like a "victimless" crime to use where not legal and many so on's. These same individuals have no experience with patients in Rehab either on Alcoholol or Marijuana. They have not seen the human pain from usage of these drugs. They have not seen the 16 or 17 year old in the throws of grand mall sizeures from these drugs or the results of starting on them and then growing into bigger "kicks" from stronger drugs. It is truly sad to watch these users go through the pain of withdrawal. There are many thousands involved in the illegal activity of pot and it is a huge cost to the citizens. There are kids pushing drugs and getting hooked and spreading the crime. These are NOT victimless. The impact on family life is a whole other story. Who cares if Pot is not as bad (although a stupid argument) as alcholol.
Has anyone watched the latest report by Patrick Kennedy who is totally against making it legal. He just came out of a Rehab. I think a lot of TOTV readers know I am strongly against making it legal. I have seen too much devestation. It is so sad.

People don't go to rehab for marijuana. Nice try. I have no idea what "drug" you're referring to, it's not marijuana.

Originally Posted by Parker

Thank you for the answer to my question. Very interesting. I have also read that many times marijuana has dangerous additives depending on the source of it, so perhaps it is sometimes even worse. That would be a good reason to avoid it.

To the contrary. People who produce it are very aware that it's going into their/others body. They take great care to ensure purity. Of course I'm referring to individual growers who supply medical marijuana to dispensaries. Or supply marijuana to legal merchants where legal. When/if it becomes a commercialized product, well then it will probably end up full of chemicals, additives, enhancers.

Originally Posted by Barefoot

Like Polar Bear, I haven't decided whether I'm yay or nay. But I do have a problem with the above comments about the intent of people that drink alcohol versus the intent of people who smoke grass.

If I understand the comments correctly, both PB and Rubicon believe that people who smoke grass do so ONLY to get high. And that for the most part, people who drink alcohol do so ONLY for the taste, not to get high, and not for the reason that it tends to relax people who are stressed out. (Although I have noticed the popularity of two-for-one happy hours).

Perhaps I'm naive, as I haven't been around pot smokers for many years. Perhaps things have changed. But with both alcohol and grass, I think the intention of mature adults is to enjoy the relaxing benefits of a drink or a toke, and not to get drunk or high.

Exactly...people drink for that "buzz", that relaxing effect it provides. Not to get falling down drunk or with marijuana, just wasting it. That's the thing about marijuana, it only attaches to certain receptors, when they're full, they're full, so you can't get "too high" and you're not damaging anything. The extra just floats around waiting for an opening to attach to. You have all kinds of receptors, many change how you feel. Endorphins, serotonin, etc, all have receptors that change how you feel.

Alcohol is a poison, you're literally feeling the effects of poisoning yourself when you get your "buzz" from alcohol.

[nitehawk]

this is one interesting thread --- cant wait for florida

[Golfingnut]

I am too old to change my love of beer, but hope younger adults see the change from alcohol to pot for recreation.

[PennBF]

The writer is correct most don't go to rehab for marijuana they go BECAUSE of marijuana. It is not arguable that marijunana is a "gateway" drug. That 15-20% of users move on to herion, coke, meth, etc.etc. That is also not debatable. It is not debatable that marijuana has serious health effects on user between 14-21 beyond it being a gateway drug for them . Thus you have 15-20% going to other drugs and inaddition those that don't move on have serious health problems becuase of their usage. None of this can be argued or debated as they are statistical facts. As far as alcholol is concerned that is another story and should be discussed separately from marijuana. Maybe it would bring some knowledge to the doubting Thomas's by looking up the AA meetings currently going on in The Villages. I am getting off the soap box but it is terrible to down play the serious effects of drugs on society. Does the fact that alcholol has the same chemial interation as "embalming fluid" interesting?

[JB in TV]

Originally Posted by PennBF

The writer is correct most don't go to rehab for marijuana they go BECAUSE of marijuana. It is not arguable that marijunana is a "gateway" drug. That 15-20% of users move on to herion, coke, meth, etc.etc. That is also not debatable. It is not debatable that marijuana has serious health effects on user between 14-21 beyond it being a gateway drug for them . Thus you have 15-20% going to other drugs and inaddition those that don't move on have serious health problems becuase of their usage. None of this can be argued or debated as they are statistical facts. As far as alcholol is concerned that is another story and should be discussed separately from marijuana. Maybe it would bring some knowledge to the doubting Thomas's by looking up the AA meetings currently going on in The Villages. I am getting off the soap box but it is terrible to down play the serious effects of drugs on society. Does the fact that alcholol has the same chemial interation as "embalming fluid" interesting?

You state that 15-20% of users move on to herion, coke, meth, et. How is that percentage calculated? Do these "statistics" that you mention count every marajuana user? 100% of them? Really? How can you include all of the people who smoke marajuana and never go on to anything else? I'm willing to bet that there are many on (even on TOTV) who have used marajuana yet were not counted in any survey. So I respectfully question your stated facts.

[rubicon]

An addiction is an addiction and the costs personal and to society have been well documented.

The posters who are "open minded" all seem to vote yea because they should have the freedom to do what they want.

the posters who are "closed minded"all seem to vote nay do so because they consider that legalizing pot will increase personal and societal costs and the stronger foothill by the criminal element.

Self interests always win in this country in the short run but in the long rum the country continues to suffer

[joerocker]

Originally Posted by PennBF

The writer is correct most don't go to rehab for marijuana they go BECAUSE of marijuana. It is not arguable that marijunana is a "gateway" drug. That 15-20% of users move on to herion, coke, meth, etc.etc. That is also not debatable. It is not debatable that marijuana has serious health effects on user between 14-21 beyond it being a gateway drug for them . Thus you have 15-20% going to other drugs and inaddition those that don't move on have serious health problems becuase of their usage. None of this can be argued or debated as they are statistical facts. As far as alcholol is concerned that is another story and should be discussed separately from marijuana. Maybe it would bring some knowledge to the doubting Thomas's by looking up the AA meetings currently going on in The Villages. I am getting off the soap box but it is terrible to down play the serious effects of drugs on society. Does the fact that alcholol has the same chemial interation as "embalming fluid" interesting?

You have the whole "cause and effect" thing wrong. Backwards.

Their personality is an addictive personality, therefore they become addicted to something, anything. Marijuana is just one step in their ultimate addiction. Most who end up in rehab are/have been addicted to many things. Cigarettes, alcohol, drugs, usually all of them. It's like banning Cheerios because every one of the obese all have eaten cheerios. Like banning beer/wine because all alcoholics have at one time drank beer/wine. Marijuana didn't cause their addiction. It didn't do anything but happen to be widely available. It's available because nearly everyone likes it. So, they tried it. They didn't get addicted to marijuana. The marijuana didn't cause their later addiction to something else. People with addictive personalities will end up addicted to something. Whatever is available.

It's still illegal for people under 21. Why is this always brought up? Are ALL laws for the underage worthless because nobody follows them? Then marijuana being illegal is a worthless law because nobody follows it.

Those who have never tried it are the ones who scream most loudly against it. How can you hate something you've never tried? Especially when you see millions who like it so. You're falling for the party line here. You're being misled.

[joerocker]

Originally Posted by rubicon

An addiction is an addiction and the costs personal and to society have been well documented.

The posters who are "open minded" all seem to vote yea because they should have the freedom to do what they want.

the posters who are "closed minded"all seem to vote nay do so because they consider that legalizing pot will increase personal and societal costs and the stronger foothill by the criminal element.

Self interests always win in this country in the short run but in the long rum the country continues to suffer

Yes, the yay's are for freedom of individual choice, the nay's don't think people can make their own decisions and decisions need to be made for them.

Pretty close?

[rubicon]

Originally Posted by joerocker

Yes, the yay's are for freedom of individual choice, the nay's don't think people can make their own decisions and decisions need to be made for them.

Pretty close?

joerocker: Two points (1) Do you think many of these free choicers would desire to be free of government freebies?

2. do you really believe a person's choice to smoke marijuana's is a good choice? If so when the health/mental effects of this drug affect them they need to be free choicers as to situation #1

For me I'll exercise my free choices following healthy choices

[Polar Bear]

Originally Posted by Barefoot

...If I understand the comments correctly, both PB and Rubicon believe that people who smoke grass do so ONLY to get high. And that for the most part, people who drink alcohol do so ONLY for the taste, not to get high...

Not exactly, Barefoot. I do believe that people only smoke to get high. But regarding alcohol, I stated that SOME people drink alcohol to just enjoy the taste and to sip a drink in a social setting, not to get high. I know many (most?) do drink for the buzz. But not all.

Still a big difference to me.

[PennBF]

Good question regarding "statistics". Who really cares abour the "base". 15-20% of anything is significant. In the case of 5% of youth going to more addictive drugs (e.g. herion, coke, meth.etc.) that is enough to classifiy it as a crisis. There are places a person can go to learn and educate themselves on addictions while not being an addict. A good place is the Caron Foundation in Pa. It would be worthwhile to spend a week going through intensive workshops, lectures, etc. to truly understand the problems. I would have much more faith in a person who could certify they have actually tried to understand the crisis we are facing with Marijuana and all other drugs. It is costly ( about $2500-3000) for a week but it demonstrates a true desire to be educated before pontificating on a subject without formal knowledge. This facility is the same one Miss America was sent to for help and they also have a program to help others to understand addictions including those who are not addicts. They have a terrific knowledgeable staff and it is pretty intensive. I am not and have not been an addict but felt I should be educated before I discuss the subject and this was referred to me by some very smart people on addiction.

[Villages PL]

Originally Posted by Parker

Thank you for the answer to my question. Very interesting. I have also read that many times marijuana has dangerous additives depending on the source of it, so perhaps it is sometimes even worse. That would be a good reason to avoid it.

To take it one step further, I heard a doctor on the radio say that they use pesticides and herbacides to grow marijuana. I wouldn't want that in my lungs. Lung cancer is one of the leading causes of death in the U.S..

Not everyone will get lung cancer from smoking marijuana, but why raise your risk? There are enough risks in life as it is.

[nitehawk]

I wonder if they put pesticides and herbicides on the grapes for the wine we all drink and maybe the hops for the beer Ban all processed food and beef with steroids - Ban everything -- would you be happy

[rubicon]

Back in the day we had a rule to recruit only those with college education. We didn't necessarily believe that all college educated people were the only smart ones but we did believe they we were selecting from a better pool of prospective employees . And before anyone gets their dander up, I did personally promote people w/o college educations over the years.

My real point here is that what do you suppose you would get from a pool of people who admitted to smoking pot and a group of people you verified did not smoke pot? Who would you hire? Who would you let take your daughter out on a date?

My other thought is that some posters view this has a right. Since when are vices rights. I can answer that question for you, when the government can tax you for it. The government arrested criminals for promoting gambling for years sending them to jail until they figured out they could collect taxes for it. So they legalized horse racing among other things. What was ironic is that in a moment these criminals became businessmen. Also ironic are the posters found at these establishments warning people if they had a gambling problem to call------- I abhor hypocrisy . And what became of America's moral imperative? Should Americans be spending their time in a fight over legalizing marijuana or for the return to the rule of law and our political leaders to abide by the US Constitution et cetra et cetra et cetra.

[billethkid]

Originally Posted by rubicon

Back in the day we had a rule to recruit only those with college education. We didn't necessarily believe that all college educated people were the only smart ones but we did believe they we were selecting from a better pool of prospective employees . And before anyone gets their dander up, I did personally promote people w/o college educations over the years.

My real point here is that what do you suppose you would get from a pool of people who admitted to smoking pot and a group of people you verified did not smoke pot? Who would you hire? Who would you let take your daughter out on a date?

My other thought is that some posters view this has a right. Since when are vices rights. I can answer that question for you, when the government can tax you for it. The government arrested criminals for promoting gambling for years sending them to jail until they figured out they could collect taxes for it. So they legalized horse racing among other things. What was ironic is that in a moment these criminals became businessmen. Also ironic are the posters found at these establishments warning people if they had a gambling problem to call------- I abhor hypocrisy . And what became of America's moral imperative? Should Americans be spending their time in a fight over legalizing marijuana or for the return to the rule of law and our political leaders to abide by the US Constitution et cetra et cetra et cetra.

Well stated position that reflects a very large segment of the populations position on legalizing pot?

Once again.......... for those who are beating the drum about how good it is and great to be legal and all the benefits from using it.......if it in fact has no harmful side effects or does not lead to bigger and better drugs and is so medicinally effective, why did it take until now for it to become legal? Why not 30-60 years ago?