[coffeebean]

Originally Posted by billethkid

How about a bruise/black and blue from the point where the needle went in to the elbow.......welt the full length of the upper arm immediately after needle withdrawn.
By the time we got home the bruise replaced the the welt.

Went to the ER and it was diagnosed as a hematoma, not to worry, it will go away.
It took three months to finally "go away".

A very, very isolated incident most likely related to the technique (or lack of it) by the one giving the shot.

Did you say "elbow"? That is not anywhere near the supposed site of injection. Yikes!

[coffeebean]

Originally Posted by MDLNB

Glad you get your flu shot. I totally advocate for flu shots for other folks that have sensitive health issues. Never had the flu and don't get the shot, but I did get the shingles shot and pneumonia shot. Had to get all kinds of shots when traveling overseas, but keep them to a minimum now. I consider vaccinations to be wonder drugs and a miracle. Why don't I get the flu shot? Never felt the need for it since I have been around folks suffering from the flu and never caught it. Maybe that will change if I ever catch the flu AND survive.Glad to see folks trying to be safe. I am not an Anti-Vaxxer, just haven't decided to get some vaccinations. My family tends to live long lives, in the 90's on average.

At least COVID deaths are down and even though the infection rate has risen, deaths from COVID are still down. That's a good thing.

Covid deaths are down because our many of our most vulnerable population are vaccinated. Declining deaths must be attributed to the vaccines.

[coffeebean]

Originally Posted by PennBF

We currently go to Mayo at least once a month for treatment and have been going to them for over 5 years. At our last visit one of the Doctors we see advised us to wear masks as things are getting worse. The Dr. was quite serious as opposed to a casual piece of advice. Within the last couple of weeks a rule has been passed at Mayo that all employees must be vaccinated. When there you must wear a mask. It is beyond selfish and uncaring to refuse to wear a mask to protect others and to refuse to get a vaccination given the level of concern by the medical world! This is not a game, it is the real world and it is too late when your in the hospital on all sorts of equipment to say you should have followed the advice.

Let me turn that around.......it is beyond foolish not to wear an N95 mask if you are not vaccinated or are worried that you may have a break through infection if you are vaccinated. Those who need the protection should protect THEMSELVES. Don't expect me to wear a mask to protect those who refuse to protect themselves with a vaccine. Sorry, NOT going to do it.

Having said that, I always comply with wearing a mask if an establishment or health care facility REQUIRES a mask. There must be a posted sign for me to don that mask.

[coffeebean]

Originally Posted by drducat

Infection-enhancing anti-SARS-CoV-2 antibodies recognize both the original Wuhan/D614G strain and Delta variants. A potential risk for mass vaccination ?


ADE..Look Out

This reaction is forever...you can't go back once jabbed....watch out!

There is no evidence that ADE is caused by mRNA vaccines.

Antibody-dependent Enhancement (ADE) and Vaccines | Children's Hospital of Philadelphia

[coffeebean]

Originally Posted by drducat

How about preliminary...

Key word is "possible".

[coffeebean]

Originally Posted by drducat

Read it.....from Nature Mag...Very very possible yet to come.

Antibody-dependent enhancement and SARS-CoV-2 vaccines and therapies | Nature Microbiology

Very important line in the conclusion.......However, clinical data has not yet fully established a role for ADE in human COVID-19 pathology.

[Escape Artist]

Originally Posted by coffeebean

There is no evidence that ADE is caused by mRNA vaccines.

Antibody-dependent Enhancement (ADE) and Vaccines | Children's Hospital of Philadelphia

How can they know yet? Only time will tell. I think the picture will become clearer once booster shots are administered in the future with new/different spike protein.

[coffeebean]

Originally Posted by Escape Artist

How can they know yet? Only time will tell. I think the picture will become clearer once booster shots are administered in the future with new/different spike protein.

How many millions of people have been vaccinated with mRNA vaccines world wide so far? That should be an excellent indication if ADE were a problem which it is not.

[drducat]

Originally Posted by coffeebean

How many millions of people have been vaccinated with mRNA vaccines world wide so far? That should be an excellent indication if ADE were a problem which it is not.

Cold season has not began, Boosters have not began and what is putting the vaccinated in the hospital with Covid19 or???

All we need is a multi protein vaccine or a good early treatment is what is needed......stay safe!

[Bill14564]

Originally Posted by drducat

Cold season has not began, ...

The fall cold season has not begun in the US but the vaccines spanned the spring cold season and the summer cold season. Plus, many colds do not respect their season and occur throughout the year.

Originally Posted by drducat

...Boosters have not began ...

But they have. Not officially, but many have been going back for third or more doses unofficially.

Originally Posted by drducat

...and what is putting the vaccinated in the hospital with Covid19 or???...

I imagine Covid is putting vaccinated people in the hospital with Covid. No vaccine is 100% effective. The efficacy of the vaccine (95% in the case of Pfizer) was determined by counting the number of vaccinated individuals who became sick during the trials. Since vaccinations began, only 8,054 vaccinated individuals have been hospitalized with Covid and only 1,587 have died; more than that many unvaccinated people have died since this thread began.

Originally Posted by drducat

All we need is a multi protein vaccine or a good early treatment is what is needed......stay safe!

What we need is to stop raising baseless concerns in an attempt to scare people away from the vaccine. The more who get vaccinated, the fewer who get sick and the fewer who die.

[MDLNB]

Originally Posted by coffeebean

Covid deaths are down because our many of our most vulnerable population are vaccinated. Declining deaths must be attributed to the vaccines.

Duh, did I say different? And yet some on here are saying that the deaths are on the increase and want everyone to panic.

[Bill14564]

Originally Posted by MDLNB

Duh, did I say different? And yet some on here are saying that the deaths are on the increase and want everyone to panic.

Assuming you are referring to me.....

Deaths are on the increase - I've provided five sources. Can you provide two that say otherwise?

No one needs to panic but many need to go get vaccinated.

[PennBF]

If it weren't so serious a subject it would be a comedy to think of those who say there is no proof of the long term effects of being vaccinated therefore they ignore the need to get vaccinated HOWEVER they ignore the impact of the short term effect if you get the virus, like you die or are sick for a long period of time with a variety of ills. As they say you can't make this stuff up! Hey, wait. How about those who refuse to wear a mask and haven't because it is uncomfortable. Lets consider how uncomfortable it is lying in a bed in ICU in the hospital while trying to get your breath. Of course there is some unsavory things going on like overcharging, mid level Doctors acting like experts, the demand of a mask to enter a business, etc. Ahh, some of the above are getting back at them by not wearing a mask and not getting vaccinated. Their answer is to potentially die to get even. These are the same people who were acting out, crying, etc in the first grade when getting there vaccination and are fearful. Some may go so far as to smoke pot or use some other drug to escape life in general!

[Bay Kid]

Want to help get everyone vaccinated just require vaccination before you get your welfare checks. Vaccinations are free too.

[ThirdOfFive]

Originally Posted by PennBF

If it weren't so serious a subject it would be a comedy to think of those who say there is no proof of the long term effects of being vaccinated therefore they ignore the need to get vaccinated HOWEVER they ignore the impact of the short term effect if you get the virus, like you die or are sick for a long period of time with a variety of ills. As they say you can't make this stuff up! Hey, wait. How about those who refuse to wear a mask and haven't because it is uncomfortable. Lets consider how uncomfortable it is lying in a bed in ICU in the hospital while trying to get your breath. Of course there is some unsavory things going on like overcharging, mid level Doctors acting like experts, the demand of a mask to enter a business, etc. Ahh, some of the above are getting back at them by not wearing a mask and not getting vaccinated. Their answer is to potentially die to get even. These are the same people who were acting out, crying, etc in the first grade when getting there vaccination and are fearful. Some may go so far as to smoke pot or use some other drug to escape life in general!

When COVID first came on the scene, my wife and I made the decision to actually LIVE our lives, not just to keep drawing breath while huddled behind some door, or mask, or whatever. We lived in Minnesota at the time and the panic hit full-bore up there. We wore masks where we were required to do so; places like the dentist waiting area, our family doctor's office, unavoidable government offices, etc. Otherwise, no. I have severe asthma as well as a coronary artery condition so wearing a mask is problematic for me; businesses up there recognized that fact and made exceptions for those of us with such conditions, so I rarely wore a mask even at the height of the original breakout. Moving to Florida last fall made mandated mask-wearing moot. My wife and I both had COVID. Not particularly fun but not the bubonic plague - level affliction one sort of suspected when reading the daily hype in local media. I've since had the vaccination; not because I particularly fear the medical consequences if I don't but because my family lives in Minnesota and there is always a chance that this-or-that state might start requiring proof of vaccination, and I guarantee that Minnesota would be one of the first to do that. My wife chose not to get the vaccination.

Bottom line: we've lived a very full life since the outbreak of the disease, to date. And we haven't regretted one minute of it. It is far better than to live in fear.

People are free to do whatever they think they should do to protect themselves from COVID. Wear masks, get vaccinations, don't touch anything in a public place without wearing gloves, disinfect your grocery cart handles, etc. etc. Hell, they can wear full-body condoms for all I care. But no one is going to tell me that must do similar things, or anything at all, because THEY fear that I may have the bug. Because I won't.

My liberty does not stop, where their fear begins.