[dbussone]

I hope this does not develop into a political debate, despite the topic. Please try to maintain a rational discussion - even though it might be personal.

For those worried about TVH and its recent happenings, or those who wring their hands over what they perceive to be poor access to physicians here in TV, or those who don't care for the local selection of physicians - these are the least of concerns in my opinion.

I have had several very large Canadian hospitals ask me to help them develop ways to generate income producing services; a group of German legislators request help in developing non-governmental programs, and watched the British NHS collapse upon itself. I helped another group of US hospitals find a way to care for Canadians who have alternative private insurance to provide them more timely care.

Instead, I suggest you consider the rules and regulations that exist here and are being developed in our country.

The link below will take you to an article that I hope you read. Universal healthcare is typically very heavily dominated by governmental fiat - whether part of a law or not. I believe Obamacare is the forefront of this effort in the US, and will continue to make changes most individuals find disagreeable.

This article should be particularly touching for couples who live here in TV. My wife and I celebrated our 47th anniversary this week. I will do whatever I can to eliminate the "pure governmental" option.

(I recognize that we have many wonderful Canadian seasonal residents in TV. IMO the US system of healthcare is second to none, but is being destroyed on a rapid basis.)

Elderly Couple Forced to Live Apart Weep in Heartbreaking Photo - NBC News

I look forward to hearing your comments.



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[Fredster]

I believe many people think we should have National Healthcare.

But I don't agree with those that do, and this is how I see it.
Our Federal government does not have a positive history or track record of administering
and running any large government program in an efficient or cost effective manner.
It just isn't in the nature of our governmement
bureaucracy to pull it off.

Yes, we need more accessibility, and lower costs, while
maintaining quality of care, but the Federal government
is not the answer.
JMHO

[dbussone]

Originally Posted by Fredster

I believe many people think we should have National Healthcare.



But I don't agree with those that do, and this is how I see it.

Our Federal government does not have a positive history or track record of administering

and running any large government program in an efficient or cost effective manner.

It just isn't in the nature of our governmement

bureaucracy to pull it off.



Yes, we need more accessibility, and lower costs, while

maintaining quality of care, but the Federal government

is not the answer.

JMHO

Thanks for your view on this topic.


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[villagetinker]

Dbusonne,

I agree and share your concerns. Recent news articles about 3 of the largest insurers pulling out of selected states (Obamacare) only points to more problems. They cannot turn a profit, apparently because there are not enough healthy young people signing up. Now add todays news that the insurance companies are going to raise rates (large significant increases) on long term care plans. None of this is good news.
We have decided to not accept VHS generous offer of using their Advantage plan because of the very real possibility of care being withheld due to excessive costs to the plan. This is not acceptable.

I have no idea where this is headed. I also have a very real concern with the current generation of youngsters that think they are "entitled" to whatever they want. I our era, no one was "entitled" to much of anything, we WORKED for what we wanted, and for our retirement.

It will be interesting to see how this discussion goes. Hope we can keep it civil.

[dbussone]

Originally Posted by villagetinker

Dbusonne,

I agree and share your concerns. Recent news articles about 3 of the largest insurers pulling out of selected states (Obamacare) only points to more problems. They cannot turn a profit, apparently because there are not enough healthy young people signing up. Now add todays news that the insurance companies are going to raise rates (large significant increases) on long term care plans. None of this is good news.
We have decided to not accept VHS generous offer of using their Advantage plan because of the very real possibility of care being withheld due to excessive costs to the plan. This is not acceptable.

I have no idea where this is headed. I also have a very real concern with the current generation of youngsters that think they are "entitled" to whatever they want. I our era, no one was "entitled" to much of anything, we WORKED for what we wanted, and for our retirement.

It will be interesting to see how this discussion goes. Hope we can keep it civil.

Thank you for your thoughtful response, VT.


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[VApeople]

Yes, Universal Health Care is in our future. Death is also in our future. However, right now we are alive and we are very satisfied with our healthcare, so we are just trying to enjoy every day of our life together.

[Nucky]

This is the number one issue on my mind. After doing the correct thing and raising a family and working hard our whole life we end up in TV. What a stroke of luck we have been blessed with. Now for us its a matter of getting and staying healthy quickly. We truly have no say in what will become of our healthcare. We have to hope for the best. I had a great boss for about twenty years who was an old school man and didn't have his managerial staff pay a penny for the health care of themselves and the employee's family. What a guy. He covered everything. Then when he sold the company after 9/11 a humongous corporation took over and shortly after we were paying about $200 a week for terrible coverage. I'm still paying a few bill's from back then.

I just do my best, make decisions the best I can and have faith that things will work out. I spent the winter of 2014 barely sleeping because of worrying about health care. I almost drove myself to the point of needing health care because of health care....no more for me. The only reason I shared here is because of dbussone....a good man looking for EVERYONES thoughts. I just want to finish out my time as happy as I can and take care of my wife....but reality is she is taking care of me.

[goodtimesintv]

Keep in mind while reading the Canadian article below:

- Population of USA = 318 million. Population of Canada = 35 million.

- USA "Gross domestic product increased at a 1.0 percent annual rate instead of the previously reported 0.7 percent pace, the Commerce Department said on Friday in its second GDP estimate.

Economists polled by Reuters had expected that fourth-quarter GDP growth would be revised down to a 0.4 percent pace."
(CNBC "US Q4 revised GDP up 1.0% vs 0.4% growth expected" 2/26/16)

Now consider:

(Canada) Missing on the campaign trail: Talk of health care

Pharmacare, a seniors strategy, home care: All relegated to passing references. Evan Solomon on the missing heart of the election campaign

"....The federal government promised to continue the so-called escalator—a six per cent increase in funding each year—for five years, until 2016-17.

Then, reality hits. The government will tie its health care contribution to the provinces to economic growth, with a floor of three per cent. So, here we are, four years later, and, in case you haven’t noticed, economic growth is pretty hard to come by. In other words, get ready to hit the floor. Hard.

Health care spending by the provinces is almost certain to outstrip GDP growth, and the aging demographic will make it worse. “Premiers feel strapped, regarding fiscal sustainability,” Page says.

For the provinces, which spend about 40 per cent of their budgets on health care, it will soon seem like a patient learning to function without a limb. This explains why Quebec Premier Philippe Couillard, a surgeon who knows an amputation when he sees one, is raising the matter of the Canadian Health Transfer payments.

Elections are as much about controlling what is not being debated as they are about what is being debated. That’s why Stephen Harper has not sent out a Franklin-style search party looking for the lost health care debate. He wants this election to be about the economy and security, not health care, which he knows plays well for the opposition......."

Why we're not talking about health care this election

[njbchbum]

The cost of healthcare in America is not an independent factor. It is significantly impacted by a litigious society, the cost of lawsuits aganist medical facilities and personnel as well as the costs associated with pharmaceutical and therapeutic care and of malpractice insurance. Asking America's government to step in and step up to address the matrix of all of those factors in a way that would design a comprehensive plan to address each and all of those factors equitably and generate a fiscally sound and affordable healthcare-for-all program/policy is unrealistic. An economy based on the permissiveness of deficit spending is as solid as a house built on sand.

[dbussone]

Great discussion so far. Thanks for posting. What do YOU think?


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[rubicon]

goodtimesintv and njbchbum. I appreciate and agree with your resourceful remarks and statistics.

Fraud and abuse in our healthcare system, welfare system etc abounds and government is ineffective in managing these abuses. simply stated the government doesn't care because its only taxpayers money

We suffer greatly now because our government is too large and too complex and too political to be effective. Its a monster out of control. The VA comes to mind

I am by nature against central power. The founders made it clear that the states created the federal government and not the reverse.

In the corporate world while I understood the benefit of a home office I found too often that a home office never understood what field operations people really did

All of this makes me very much a free enterprise aficionado and I believe the better way to achieve nirvana in our health care system vis a vis health insurance system is to open competition countrywide. As to regulations a balance has to be struck between open enrollment and pricing based on realistic underwriting criteria. Perhaps for the truly less fortunate subsidizing is a reality and a must?

But never in my lifetime would I vote for universal healthcare because it will only leads to sub-standards for all of us but the very rich and powerful. Government makes for bad business practices as medicare, Fannie and Freddie etc have shown because its all based on politics which has another name votes

And as Ronald Reagan humorously reminds us "the closest thing to eternal life is a government program. Bad programs never die they are implemented, funded and simply continue under the coverage of darkness

[Cedwards38]

Frankly, I see no other solution to the problem of unbridled greed in the pharmaceutical industry and the skyrocketing cost of all forms of healthcare, than a universal single payer system.

If the Declaration of Independence, adopted as the basis for our structure of American government, states that we are entitled to certain unalienable rights endowed by our Creator, and those include LIFE, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness, then healthcare should be thought of as a right rather than a privilege. Thus if we have a right to healthcare, then it follows that our federal government, as the only earthly entity with authority over us all, should provide for that right. Besides that, I just think that no man, woman, or especially child should suffer, or lose their life, or face personal or family bankruptcy in America because they can not afford health insurance or health care, and I'm willing to pay for that.

Yes, the federal government attempts to manage incredibly massive programs like Social Security, Medicare, FEMA, and our military defense, and we often hear of the abuses within these programs. But there are abuses in private sector systems also, and I don't think we can or should allow the fact that mistakes will be made keep us from trying to fix this or any other problem. America has always done it's best things for moral reasons, and this is another one of those.

Thanks for bringing up the topic!

[ColdNoMore]

...that I'm surprised it is upstairs and not down in the basement in the Political Forum.

Kudos to the mods for allowing it to be here, where more folks can see it.

As to the subject, it still amazes me that the greatest nation this planet has ever seen seems to put more emphasis on sending our young men and women to war...than in taking care of the health of its citizens.

Particularly sad and infuriating is the fact that we don't even properly take care of those who come back from those wars. And this isn't a problem that can be pointed at a particular party...as it has been happening at least since the Vietnam War.

It isn't coincidental that those most opposed to UHC are also those that already have decent health coverage either from companies that once provided it (which so many no longer do) or are covered under what is in essence UHC...through Medicare.

It's my opinion that if the real reasons for opposing UHC were honestly expressed, a lot of it would come down to a "I got mine, forget you" or "your kind doesn't deserve it."

I also recognize the huge obstacles of having a government run this type of program, as we can see how so many other government programs are so riddled with waste and inefficiencies. While I believe ACA was a great idea, it should have never been allowed to have been written by the health industry special interest groups and should have been handed off to an academic group...without influence from lobbyists and those whose interests were self-serving.

It's just my deep and firm belief that if we can find the money and expertise to so efficiently operate and fund a military that exceeds the next five (7?) nations combined...we can figure out a way to try and take care of our citizens health.

And while no country has a 'perfect' system, the ones in the link below have at least made the decision that their own citizens are what is most important...and they've made the effort.

7 Countries That Show Us How Health Care Should Be Done | Mic


In addition, it's not like our current system is actually that effective for the average person...based on the same link above.

The World Health Organization ranked American health care 37th in the world, and in a recent comprehensive, comparative study, the

Commonwealth Fund ranked America’s health care system last on the basis of 21 indicative factors. Analyzing the countries that have surpassed the U.S. in these rankings highlights a puzzling reality: What places these other countries ahead of the U.S. is not just their universal health care systems, but also their significantly lower health care costs and undeniably greater efficiency and equity. How’s that possible? Read about seven of those countries and find out.

And since I have obviously taken a different view than the majority on TOTV have, I am hopeful that the mods will delete the personal attacks and allow for an honest discourse of the merits of the thread subject...not attacks on individual posters.

[graciegirl]

I am concerned because I have a friend who lives in Austria who had to wait four months for a mastectomy and the income tax there is at fifty percent. NO...honest, check on it.
Taxation in Austria - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

It isn't that in theory it is something good, but just like most things in theory, when a huge government adopts the practice, and greedy people and their lawyers get involved, not to mention those with NO moral compass, then it becomes a terrible mess and the quality of healthcare becomes not nearly as good. NOT anywhere close to what we are used to.

It is a glittering generality to say that people are just selfish who don't want it. That offends me. I don't want it because it doesn't work well at all. Your choices are gone. If we didn't have the choice to take our daughter to a skilled surgeon who had done dozens of corrections on supra valvar aortic stenosis, she wouldn't be here today.

[NotGolfer]

Great discussion! Thanks Dbusonne for beginning it. I for one am againest UHC for all the reasons the others here have stated. I have many serious health issues and need to see specialists from time to time. So far, I've had fairly good luck with my health-care providers here in T.V. (we have TVHC). That said, when I read what the government is putting into place....remember when Obamacare wasn't quite there yet and ALL the promises being given?? Folks will have to wait (it's already happening in some instances) and if I remember correctly, once one reaches 75 there will be concerns. The healthcare system will have the power to deny care. Folks scoffed at the notion of "death panels"...well I think that will also become a reality. It's never a good thing when governmental agencies get their fingers in the "pie". Already Big Pharma and Insurance companies have way too much power. One more thing came to my mind as well....a few years ago 2017 was given as a year for changes in H.C.