Holy cow.....I cannot believe this.....all posts have clearly VERY CLEARLY defined he was caught up in this mess because he visited a massage parlor that was part of an ongoing investigation by Florida police into human trafficking.

He committed a misdemeanor (defined several times), and if lived in that county he would have received a notice in the mail (like a traffic citation) and paid a fine.

Police goal was to get the TRAFFICKERS.....THEY DID.....WHY we do not applaud the police instead of defending a stupid decision by a man who certainly knows better simply escapes me.

Just hard to accept that people, instead of applauding law enforcement for doing their job and doing it well over months, are posting how they like the Jets, or how much money Kraft gave to charity, or how it is the women's fault............all extremely minor to the real story but maybe I read differently. Dont come on here and post about law and order though.

This is from your link

“USA Today reports Kraft was one of “at least 100 men” involved in the “human trafficking ring."

Did you read it?

I said that many times....listed those rich guys in addition to Kraft who were caught up in it.....SO FAR.

You are so hung up on Kraft, you simply refuse to learn anything or learn how to put things in the proper prospective.

Since I am just getting into the subject of Human Trafficking and have a whole lot to learn admittedly, is it true Mr. Kraft was not just a guy going to a prostitute for a fling. He actually arranged the trafficking of the People Who "Worked There". Maybe not all Women, I don't think they released the Video yet! Who Knows Today?

The first question that comes to mind is how did these people who are held hostage get into our country in the first place? What they are going thru is cruel. Can it be stopped? Can it be slowed down? Won't the operation just move to another spot? Like I said I don't know but it will be interesting to learn. I think the majority of men I know play their game on their own home field not an away game like this seems to be. If it's all true it's terrible. Insane if you ask me! :ohdear:

Yes, he could have explained what the charges were against the women who operated the SPA and the women who allegedly sold their bodies for cash were.
And why they needed 200 men to make the case.

Instead as is noted in this article, it is all speculation and allegations.

Read this:

“Restriction of movement is a classic page from traffickers' playbook. IF the women working in the massage parlor were not allowed to leave the premises — and IF when they left they were accompanied and/or monitored — then this might be a trafficking case," she said. "IF we learn that their passports were taken, then we are looking at trafficking."

Brennan also made clear that the sex work itself is not a calling card of human trafficking, but rather it's the lack of autonomy.”


IF IF IF IF IF IF

I gave links to a few government agencies and tried to stay away from opinion type. I have linked a few but here are more...

Global Report on Trafficking in Persons

Human Trafficking: The Myths and the Realities

Personally, and with minor knowledge, enforcing existing laws the require certain EMPLOYER actions when hiring would help but it goes much deeper I am afraid and the entire subject is pretty much ignored.

You should contact the various law enforcement agencies in Florida and tell them how they botched this months old investigation and how your ideas are better.

I read most of them but the question is where has it been PROVEN?

Let me ask you both. What do you think this very moment as things sit now what will be the outcome for 1) The People Who Are Being Held, Hostage? 2) Mr. Kraft? 3) The others who were caught?

What do you think the outcome will be after court for all the listed above?

Those men who were caught up in this, Kraft and such, committed a misdemeanor and will be fined....they would not even have to go to court if they lived in the same county (simply get a letter and pay the fine like traffic ticket).

Those who are running the deal are charged with felonies.."The penalties for human trafficking are severe. A conviction for holding a person in peonage carries potential fines and a maximum prison term of 20 years. If a death results or the violation included kidnapping, sexual abuse, or other aggravating factors, the maximum punishment increases to life imprisonment.

Sex trafficking of children, or by fraud, force, or coercion carry enhanced penalties. Prison sentences for these offenses carry a potential life sentence and a minimum of 10 years in prison (or more, depending on the details of the offense and the victim).
The law also prohibits and punishes attempts and conspiracies relating to human trafficking. It orders the forfeit of any property used in violation of the law as well as any proceeds from the act. The law includes clauses for the mandatory payment of restitution to the victim for the full amount of their losses, as determined by the court.



Human Trafficking and Slavery - FindLaw

Bottom line as I said or someone else said....Kraft is one of many "rich white man" with power attorneys so who knows

Bottom line is simply embarrasment for all......police say they are on video so if they want that played, fight the fine

Holy Crow, they let it go on for months when they had proof after one week? Of course, I support the Police. Why did it go on for so long when people were being trafficked?

I don't like seeing anyone get hurt on either side or on here. I just hope things work out for the people held against their will and the accused get their day in court and no I didn't read every single attachment cause it all boils down to what happens in court.

This seems simple to me why is it getting so complicated. How do we really know the facts that we attach to our post are in fact facts? Wheres the proof? After court, we will know.

First of all, Mr Kraft has not been arrested. It has been alleged that he participated in a misdemeanor. Which if he is found guilty requires that he pay a fine.

The police say that they have video of him and several other high profile people engaging in sex acts. The police have often said things that have later turned out to be untrue.

If they do indeed have evidence against Mr Kraft and several other high profile people, why is it that Mr Kraft's name is the only one that has been released.

It's also been reported that the Jupiter police have waited several months before busting this place. Why would they let that kind of activity go on for that long? Why would they knowingly allow forced prostitution and human trafficking continue in their town for months?

Something doesn't seem right about this.

Nothing about outward appearance of The Orchids of Asia Day Spa in Jupiter would suggest that they are a legitimate operation. Nothing in their advertising or website indicates that there is anything funny going on there.

One of the services listed is massage. It's entirely likely that a 77 year old man with a lot of money might enjoy a massage on a regular basis.

It's entirely possible that Mr Kraft visited the spa for a perfectly legal massage and got caught up in something. His attorneys state that he did nothing illegal.

If the police do have video of Mr Kraft participating in a sex act, it will be shown to the courts and to Mr Krafts attorneys. Until then, I think that we should all keep our opinions to ourselves.

It says Kraft was “involved in Human Trafickking Ring “

HE WAS NOT

Please clear up the link you sent and correct your aggregious post.

One more time and then I give up.

The stumbling around to defend Kraft, and it appears only him. As I mentioned, more than him were cited.

The police spent months satisfying the law to be able to outfit the spa with cameras. They also, prior to that, stopped customers and many of them gave the police information as to what the place was about. Then, police went in with cameras. ALL done to satisfy the strict laws allowing police to use the cameras etc.

I said he "enabled" human trafficking.

Why such violent defense of Kraft. Nobody even mentions the other rich guys. What is it about Kraft that inspires such love and protective action.

Hell, in the last few years, I have seen folks publicly excoriated with ZERO evidence or facts.

Great idea in theory..

Yeah, you are right and correct.

I really meant it until simply browsing I saw a post from someone who chronically uses this forum as a playground and thus I just had to respond. A bad habit, which I think you pointed out to me, but I believe truth is truth and everyone on this forum, and in life, should call out folks spouting crap, and it is crap by insinuation or outright lies.

If you or yours wish to criticize me for that, so be it.

If you care more about defending someone because of whatever, than complimenting our law enforcement for protecting people and stopping illegal activities, that's on you ( collective you, not personal aimed)

Show me where I defended ANYONE. I did make a post warning not to jump to conclusions based on other recent events. But nowhere did I defend anyone.

I'm just surprised that you continue to pontificate knowing you're not going to change the views of anyone.. You're going down the road of obsessiveness with almost 1/3 of the total posts in this thread. For your own mental wellbeing you might want to step back for awhile.

Boy they are all out for me now.

Did you not read when I said....."collective you, not personal" ?

I am passionate, but you are also, especially along with another, how often I post (much less than you or her). I think a forum serves little purpose if we do not express our views and point out, WITH REFERNCE) where you feel they fall short.

This is become the story on here with any serious subject....keep lying and making things up and then attack those who want to keep it straight.

Sorry to bother you with a serious subject for discussion, truth or passion.

I note that always brings out the same posters to go at me.

Again, did you not see where I clarified....." a collective you, and not personal" ?

Or simply choose to ignore ?

This sub-forum is NFL Football. The alleged misdemeanor by Kraft is the only element of the story that is even remotely related to NFL Football. Surely there is another forum better suited for crusades.

Who exactly is it that I'm allegedly aligned with? Do you honestly believe there is a concerted effort to shout you down?

I understand you are passionate about many things. But stating your case ad nauseum isn't going to change anyone's mind.

This thread started with the subject of Robert Kraft's arrest. You turned it into a crusade about Human Trafficking. You've made your point. I guess you have the right to keep making it if you want.

If all this is True it is a case of WOMEN abusing other WOMEN. But that does not read well or sell newspapers so the headline reads that 200 not 20, 200 MEN were caught in a thus unproven Sex Traficking INVESTIGATION sting wherein they went in for a massage and may have received something extra. If o So the MEN who paid the WOMEN who were not forced into anything (No Rape charges) are the real culprits? They are exposed not the WOMEN?. This is another example of disgraceful journalism. To add fuel to the fire the man caught was a friend of the President. THE HEADLINE SHOULD HAVE BEEN:

“TWO WOMEN WERE ARRESTED FOR RUNNING A MASSAGE PARLOUR IN WHICH OTHER WOMEN VOLUNTARILY SOLD THEIR THEIR BODIES FOR CASH. POLICE SUSPECT THAT THE WOMEN OWNERS MAY HAVE BEEN INVOLVED IN A SEX TRAFFICKING OF OTHER WOMEN BUT SO FAR HAVE NO PROOF AND NO CHARGES OF RUNNING A SEX TRAFICKING OPERATION HAVE BEEN FILED. Men involved in visiting the Massage Parlour May have to pay a fine for the Misdemeanor they allegrdly committed but so far this has not yet happened and it is noted that some of the men are denying the charges. At this time no names will be released as the case is still under investigation. “

Instead we get: “THE MONSTERS ARE THE MEN”...from The NY Times. No mention that WOMEN ran the place.

Kraft and the other white Millionaire were not charged with anything and both deny it. No matter, their reputations are sullied since the headlinesnever leave the Internet. No one noted that in 2015, Bob Kraft has given over $100,000 of his hard earned money to an organization that fights Sex Trafficking.

Not ignoring. I guess I didn't read close enough. I apologize.

Classy. :thumbup:

Allowing human traffickers to bring people they use into the country constitutes enabling. Enable | Definition of Enable by Merriam-Webster

Kraft was possibly merely a customer, if that. He did not enable human trafficking.

Let’s face it, the only reason the trafficking case became public interest was the names of some caught in the sting. If not for Kraft, et al., it would have been a very local story. Personally, I’m glad this has gotten national attention. More people need to understand just what these women are forced to do. They are not the hookers who made a conscious decision to sell their bodies for drugs, money, food or whatever. These are women who were given no alternatives.

So far, the police have alleged that the victims were brought to America under false pretenses, their passports were withheld from them, they were poorly fed, severely abused and FORCED to have sex with men willing to pay for theses services. If you knowingly pay for the services of someone forced into a role against that person’s wishes, you are, in my book, as guilty as the person forcing them into that role. It might be worth making sure someone wants to have sex with you before you pay them. It is not a choice for many.

I don’t know if Kraft knew the girls/women were forced into their roles, but he is PROBABLY guilty as charged of solicitation. We shall see.

In the meantime, kudos to the police force for doing their job and doing it well. It will be difficult for those operating the massage parlor to claim sex did not happen given the amount of videos. Cases like this need a lot of evidence. A week or two doesn’t cut it — too easy to lay the blame on one manager that way. 200+ instances with video done at different times with different women/customers paints a very graphic picture.

:bigbow:



EXACTLY!! :boom:


It gives the police the time and opportunity to root out...as many scumbags involved as possible.

Frankly, with his means I wonder why Kraft didn't hop into a private jet for a quick trip to Costa Rica where prostitution is legal. Prostitution in Costa Rica - Wikipedia

Many ticos speak English as well as of course Spanish, especially in Gringo Gulch.

First of all, I accept your apologies in post

Now, I never posed here until post #23, where I said in general that we did need to wait for more information...THEN the posts started about Smollet and how sorry they felt for this man.

I asked why and got a stream of criticisms of the girls, why not legit prostitution and this is NOT about prostitution and the bigger picture of human smuggling was lost.

Hard for me to hold my tongue at that point because this is a serious problem not only in our country but throughout the world. Posters were all over the place and I attempted to deal with facts and gave links, which were obviously ignored.

Then it was turned into a P discussion, probably my fault. I simply alluded to the Jeff Epstein case which recently re entered the news, and I never thought with all the links and posts I made about the human trafficking, the links to statistics who try and show the problem beyond Kraft getting....whatever he got, and suddenly I am accused of having "contempt" for Robert Kraft and in that post we had to mention "red hats". Me, who has steadfast defended the legal position of Kraft and not once mentioned him personally have "CONTEMPT" for him......it hit me...this poster and others jumping on my case for subjects not covered in this thread, are going to make this a P discussion which it is not nor intended to be.

iT SHOULD be about Human Trafficking.....but it turned into a pity party for Kraft and a harrangue about words used....no pictures of the girls....it was the girls fault. I posted links to show that was BS because, and I know this sounds preachy, BUT I believe in TRUTH AND MORALS.

I forward that no matter how I ended it and that was shown a number of times, it was going to be pity Kraft....bad judicial, etc.

This forum is composed of adults, old enough to discuss serious issues, at least I thought so.

I did not mean to say you were conspiring in any way at all, although there is a "cult" behavior on here.......just noticed that correcting untruths became wrong somehow.

Things that don't seem to be very popular these days...by some folks. :ohdear:

STep back. Watch out for your shoes.

Where is a moderator when you need one? This thread is overdue to be closed.

I agree.

Now we are aware it was hijacked for P reasons, which I didn't realize until too late.

A topic like the trafficking of human beings turned into a defense case for some instead of caring about the victims.

It is sad, but not surprised.

Several posts have been deleted as directed at member and/or politically slanted. Please discuss the original topic without directing posts at another member and avoid inserting political comments. If such posts continue, the thread will be closed.

Moderator

To solve any problem it has to be correctly defined. Once the Politicians and the Sensational Press get hold of a story, it becomes convoluted.so every Whorehouse is now a Sex Trafficking operation. Every Pimp is a Sex Trafficker. There is no such thing as a women selling her body for cash as a profession. “Men are the Monsters” as The NY Times noted yesterday. Let’s arrest every man who patronizes these Operations and publish their names. By no means should the women selling their bodies for cash be named or charged. Just the men. That should do it. Problem solved. Or maybe we could all take a page out of Bob Krafts book and donate to organizations that help real victims of actual sex traffickers. He gave $100,000 which was just part of the $1.6 million the New England Patriots Charitable foundation gave to various charities related to domestic violence and sexual exploitation. Or if it makes you fell better you can incessantly post on TOTV and claim that you seem to be the only one that cares about the issue of Sex Trafficking. That will do it.

Well said. Thanks.

Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk

Or we can incessantly defend those who make human trafficking (for sex and domestic work)...possible and profitable.

Just as we prefer to ignore, those who do the hiring of undocumented workers...to increase profits.

Throw those who are willing to pay, therefore creating the 'market' in the first place, in jail...and watch how quickly the problem is dramatically reduced.

It really is THAT simple. :ohdear:

Police have over 200 videos of men having sex with these women. Nowhere have I seen list of the names of every man arrested in any news report. (Easy to find — arrest records are public records.) I have heard the names or at least job descriptions of six of the men. They are all considered prominent men of their communities. The women having sex with these men are not prominent members of any community nor, apparently, are the other 194+ plus men who are not mentioned. Kraft and his lesser known brethren are newsworthy, no one else arrested really is, except the individuals who ran the whole operation. Why would non-prominent names be listed? Because it’s not fair to the ones named?

As to what has been donated to charitable organizations, absolutely irrelevant. The fact is Krafts, et al., were caught on tape soliciting sex from women for money.

Is every prostitute a sex slave? NO. Some really do it by choice. Is every massage parlor a cheap whore house? Probably not but the vast majority seem to be. Is every woman who works at a massage parlor a victim? Probably not but I’d be willing to bet that the vast majority are. Most that work the parlors are of Asian descent, many brought here illegally. Some are more like indentured servants — pay your debt and you can go on your way. However, paying the debt of being smuggled to America is not an easy feat at less than minimum wage. This is not something new. This is common knowledge to most of us. Krafts had to have an idea of what went on, especially if he believed in human trafficking enough to donate to organizations fighting it. He is not innocent. At the very least, he helped enable the trafficking trade. To me, he is as culpable as the women who ran this massage parlor.