[Kenswing]

Originally Posted by Bucco

This is one of your quotes from the thread...

"Nope. They are making it about race. It isn't." This was in post 30.

Also in post #14...you said...

"Tal, I don't think this is about race and I never have thought it was about race, but the players are trying to make it about race.



Now, I do not know the truth, but then DNA was brought up and clearly stated it WAS ABOUT RACE.

So I do not know....comments seem to indicate that the reason for the protest in the first place was racial and while that never was addressed, my assumption was/is that race then was a factor in the disruption and loud comments about the protest. We did not hear that in other use of the flag to protest, so I suppose I made some wrong assumptions.

Difficult thread....some with great fervor, it is not about race, even though the protest was about race. Then those who say the participants dna might reflect so..not sure of the exact words...but proper behavior and moral character...then clearly went to race.

So.....hard to follow.....if the original protest was about race, and it was not addressed, cant see how the fallout is not just a bit racial in nature.

lol.. Don't over think it. The protests were about race. The reaction to the protests were perceived disrespect to the American Flag and National Anthem.

[graciegirl]

Originally Posted by Kenswing

That's not an apples to apples comparison. Standing for the National Anthem is not religious. Besides, the players are given an option to stay in the locker room.

It's about workplace protests. If we want to be honest it's about declining viewership. The owners know that a majority of Americans disapprove of the kneeling and are no longer watching football. All they're trying to do is protect their investment by catering to their paying customer. If there were no more paying customers there would no longer be a need for the players.

I think you nailed it.

[graciegirl]

Originally Posted by Kenswing

lol.. Don't over think it. The protests were about race. The reaction to the protests were perceived disrespect to the American Flag and National Anthem.

Exactly.

[Taltarzac725]

U.S. national anthem protests (2016–present - Wikipedia)

These protests do seem to be about unequal treatment of people of race by police and other matters. These are by celebrities using the loudest megaphone so to speak they have available to them. Doing something passive in an entertainment setting-- a football or basketball arena.

[Bucco]

Originally Posted by eweissenbach

So, you have a well paid job you love, your employer is Muslim and requires employees to bow to Mecca at an assigned time each day you would:
A. Bow to Mecca
B. Resign
C. Refuse, get fired, and sue the employer for wrongful termination and religious discrimination.

"E PLURIBUS UNUM" does not seem to apply to our country any longer

A pretty smart guy said....

"Try not to become a man of success, but rather try to become a man of value."

Albert Einstein

The Congressional prayer conference, and they actually wrote to President Obama to tell him that his use of that phrase was unpatriotic.

"E Pluribus Unum has never been considered controversial. The motto, which is Latin for "out of many, one," was adopted by the Founding Fathers in 1782 as part of the Great Seal of the United States, intended to represent the federal nature of the nation - out of many states, one country. The framers sharply disputed many issues in the formation of the nation, but E Pluribus Unum was not one of them."

"E Pluribus Unum" becomes controversial | Psychology Today

Now to be honest they wanted "In God we Trust" to be front and center, and thats cool, but you can get carried away and thus my inclusion of the Einstein quote

[Bucco]

Originally Posted by graciegirl

Exactly.

Got it....do not disagree.

Here is my personal problem.

In one post you said....instead of this protest...

"then wear a pin, march, wear a bracelet, rent a billboard, buy TV Time, do a miniseries on PBS, write a book, form clubs, tutor in schools, give money to endangered youth or to organizations supporting them."

Ok....shown that all of that has been attempted.

Legit foundations established where much of the salary of many players goes along with NFL promoting the same thoughts as the players have used a basis for the protests. "Pins, marches, bracelets, billboards TV time, miniseries, books, clubs, tutoring, and money" ALL DONE...greeted with the same response.....SILENCE.

To my knowledge, has anyone actually discussed the problem that was behind the original protest before it was made a political issue to rally folks ?

[Allegiance]

Dna is about dna.

[Bucco]

Originally Posted by joldnol

A non issue all the way. It was nothing more than a red meat issue thrown out to distract the base.

Until proven otherwise I agree.

Another false fear or issue to rally around.

I have opposed phoney patriotism all my life. I do not say that people who really rally around this are all phonies.

I do say that patriotism is so much more and so much deeper than this and ignoring moral decay but jumping on this issue is simply phoney and political.

If truely a patriot, you respect not only the flag but our justice system, our government, laws, veterans etc.

Speaking to this or simply selected "red meat" thrown at you is NOT PATRIOTISM.

[ColdNoMore]

Kneeling, has ALWAYS been about race...just ask Kaepernick.

His kneeling was meant to bring attention to the unfair and unequal treatment people of color were subjected to...compared to whites in the exact same situation(s).

And then those same whites who have no problem with how minorities are unfairly treated, have tried to divert, obfuscate and change the narrative...to try and make it about 'patriotism.'

Smart and decent people however...won't let them change the real issue.

One only has to look at the posts in this and other threads, to see those who Kaepernick and other protestors are pointing out...as the ones who have no problem with this unequal treatment and are happy with the status quo.

[graciegirl]

Poll: 53 percent of Americans say it’s ‘never appropriate’ to kneel during the national anthem - The Washington Post

[ColdNoMore]

Blacks and whites see racism in the United States very, very differently - CNNPolitics

Meanwhile, six in 10 Americans (61%) said racism against blacks is widespread in the United States in a Gallup poll last August -- up from just 51% at the beginning of President Barack Obama's first term in 2009. But that includes a broad racial split: 82% of blacks vs. just 56% of whites.

And nonwhites take the topic a lot more seriously. A Quinnipiac University poll in March found 66% of nonwhites labeled prejudice a "very serious" problem, while only 39% of whites felt the same way.

Meanwhile, one in four whites (25%) said it was not a serious problem and only one in 10 nonwhites (11%) felt the same way.

Looking forward, an overwhelming 88% of blacks say the country needs to keep making changes for blacks to have equal rights with whites. A small majority (53%) of whites agree with them, according to a Pew Research survey from last June.

And blacks seem to be less optimistic about that is happening. About half of that group (43%) is skeptical that these changes will ever happen in the United States, while only one in 10 whites (11%) say they're doubtful the country will eventually change.

[ColdNoMore]

[mac9]

Originally Posted by graciegirl

You just changed the focus and direction of this thread.

Who are these people? I know no one who would ever mock the flag. Are these KKK? They are hated by all political groups. The Southern Poverty Center says there are less than eight thousand in the whole country and most people would agree that is eight thousand too many.

Not true that the KKK is hated by all political groups. Our president stated that there are good folks on both sides.

[graciegirl]

Originally Posted by mac9

Not true that the KKK is hated by all political groups. Our president stated that there are good folks on both sides.

I do not speak for the president. I am hurt and angered that so many people think that moderates and conservatives are mostly racists.

It seems to me that people are trying to inject race into many situations. I don't know how the recent royal wedding got to be all about race. It just seemed like romance to me.

Hatred of any kind for no reason, is not good for us.

[Bucco]

Originally Posted by graciegirl

I do not speak for the president. I am hurt and angered that so many people think that moderates and conservatives are mostly racists.

It seems to me that people are trying to inject race into many situations. I don't know how the recent royal wedding got to be all about race. It just seemed like romance to me.

Hatred of any kind for no reason, is not good for us.

I am trying to be civil on this and only reply to posts, but they keep taking them down, which makes it extremely difficult to even reply.

You are hurt and angered that so many people think a certain thing.

You understand that, for example, a leader of a baseball, football, or any sports team represents and creates public opinion of them.

Same for political movements. I will,stop there and hope you are able to fill in the blanks.

I assume this will get deleted and complained about which simply adds to your frustration, as it represents also.

Almost as you don't like IT, but don't want to hear about IT.

There have been a number of very serious articles written on what I think is troubling you, but not linking them because if you or someone else has just shut down, I will be deleted and there will be no discussion