[Bill14564]

Originally Posted by biker1

Maybe, it depends on visual acuity issues. For example, the size of the TV and how far you are sitting from it. Beyond a certain distance from the TV, you will not be able to discern the differences. However, a properly prepared, true 4K source has more information than a 1080p source upscaled to 4K. If you sat close enough to the TV you could see it. Say a couple of feet; where most of us don't sit ;-)

Sorry, wasn’t what I was getting at.

The quality of the picture, the information it contains will be less. The 4K signal itself, the rate, the structure, what the decoder inside the television cares about, will be a 4K signal.


The broadcast will transmit a native 4K signal. The signal being received at the television will be a native 4K signal. The image may be a 1080 image which was upscaled to a 4K image but that 4K image will be carried on a native 4K signal.

And yes, most people won’t see the difference between 1080 and 4K and really won’t see the difference when the 1080 image has been enhanced/upscaled to 4K.

[biker1]

Yes, I now understand where you were coming from, thanks.

Originally Posted by Bill14564

Sorry, wasn’t what I was getting at.

The quality of the picture, the information it contains will be less. The 4K signal itself, the rate, the structure, what the decoder inside the television cares about, will be a 4K signal.


The broadcast will transmit a native 4K signal. The signal being received at the television will be a native 4K signal. The image may be a 1080 image which was upscaled to a 4K image but that 4K image will be carried on a native 4K signal.

And yes, most people won’t see the difference between 1080 and 4K and really won’t see the difference when the 1080 image has been enhanced/upscaled to 4K.

[Jerry101]

… for the love of God … it’s a football game!!! 🐣

[retiredguy123]

Originally Posted by Jerry101

… for the love of God … it’s a football game!!! 🐣

I don't think anyone will argue that it is not a football game. But it is also one of the most watched TV shows of the year. It seems like they would use the latest cameras and broadcast technology.

[retiredguy123]

Originally Posted by Bill14564

A 1080 signal upscaled to 4K will be a 4K signal when you receive it. It will be indistinguishable from "native" 4K when it enters your home.

Although you may be correct that "I" may not be able to see the difference, if you Google "native 4K vs upscaled 4K", almost every TV expert says that the native 4K signal produces a higher quality screen image than an upscaled 4K signal.

[Bill14564]

Originally Posted by retiredguy123

Although you may be correct that "I" may not be able to see the difference, if you Google "native 4K vs upscaled 4K", almost every TV expert says that the native 4K signal produces a higher quality screen image than an upscaled 4K signal.

You are arguing a different thing. You are using "signal" to mean content. I am using signal to mean the way the data is structured as it comes into your home.

I don't think anyone would argue that content captured on a 4K camera will produce a better screen image that content captured on a 1080 camera.

The upcoming superbowl might be captured on a 1080 camera but the 4K broadcast from Fox/Tubi will be transported on a 4K signal, exactly the same signal it would be transported on if it was captured on a 4K camera.

[retiredguy123]

Originally Posted by Bill14564

You are arguing a different thing. You are using "signal" to mean content. I am using signal to mean the way the data is structured as it comes into your home.

I don't think anyone would argue that content captured on a 4K camera will produce a better screen image that content captured on a 1080 camera.

The upcoming superbowl might be captured on a 1080 camera but the 4K broadcast from Fox/Tubi will be transported on a 4K signal, exactly the same signal it would be transported on if it was captured on a 4K camera.

Not correct. The signal that Fox will produce will be an upscaled version of 4K, which will be made by interpolating the 1080 data and it will not be an exact reproduction of the live game. Almost every TV expert will tell you the signal produced by a native 4K signal is superior to an upscaled version of 4K, and definitely not the exact same signal. Here is just one expert opinion among many:

"Native 4K" refers to video content that was originally shot and produced in 4K resolution, while "upscaled 4K" means a lower resolution video (like 1080p) has been digitally enhanced to appear as 4K, resulting in a less detailed image even though the displayed resolution is the same; essentially, native 4K is considered significantly superior to upscaled 4K as it contains more inherent detail."

[Bill14564]

Originally Posted by retiredguy123

Not correct. The signal that Fox will produce will be an upscaled version of 4K, which will be made by interpolating the 1080 data and it will not be an exact reproduction of the live game. Almost every TV expert will tell you the signal produced by a native 4K signal is superior to an upscaled version of 4K, and definitely not the exact same signal. Here is just one expert opinion among many:

"Native 4K" refers to video content that was originally shot and produced in 4K resolution, while "upscaled 4K" means a lower resolution video (like 1080p) has been digitally enhanced to appear as 4K, resulting in a less detailed image even though the displayed resolution is the same; essentially, native 4K is considered significantly superior to upscaled 4K as it contains more inherent detail."

I've explained this four times now but you refuse to understand. Everyone else is tired of reading about it.

[retiredguy123]

Originally Posted by Bill14564

I've explained this four times now but you refuse to understand. Everyone else is tired of reading about it.

I do understand it. Broadcasters use upscaled 4K as a cheap substitute for the real thing.

[jrref]

Originally Posted by retiredguy123

I do understand it. Broadcasters use upscaled 4K as a cheap substitute for the real thing.

The problem is with the cameras they use. The 4K high resolution camera are incredibly expensive and with technology today, they are not going to broadcast or stream in that resolution so you will see very little content at native 4K. Also, the facility, like the superbowl stadium probably has all 1080P camera and the associated infrastructure.

[retiredguy123]

Originally Posted by jrref

The problem is with the cameras they use. The 4K high resolution camera are incredibly expensive and with technology today, they are not going to broadcast or stream in that resolution so you will see very little content at native 4K. Also, the facility, like the superbowl stadium probably has all 1080P camera and the associated infrastructure.

So, native 4K is the latest technology, but it is too expensive to use. Sad. One question I do have is, if you have an 8K TV, is the upscaled 8K picture better than the upscaled 4K picture?

[jrref]

Originally Posted by retiredguy123

So, native 4K is the latest technology, but it is too expensive to use. Sad. One question I do have is, if you have an 8K TV, is the upscaled 8K picture better than the upscaled 4K picture?

Not really which is why 8K TV has stalled. There is very little 8K content. But 8K TVs tend to have the best picture processing electronics which may make the picture quality "look" better.

[kkingston57]

Originally Posted by retiredguy123

Again this year, the Super Bowl will be broadcast in 1080p using 4K (2160p) upscaling. So, the picture quality will be basically the same as if you watched it in 1080p on a 4K TV with 4K upscaling. Bummer.

Bummer? Sarcasm? 99% of the people probably can not discern the difference. When HD TV;s 1s came out bought one for my father. Went to his house and noted that he was using the non HD channels. He claimed that they were OK. Showed him the difference and he claimed he did not see the difference. He was 80. We just bought an OLED TV. Straight on picture is very close to non OLED, Big difference is when watching it from an angle. In meantime demand for tickets at game have gone down. Another rapper as the half time show. Pass

[kkingston57]

Originally Posted by Snakster66

100%. Plasmas are great

Had a plasma for 10+ years and loved it. Nothing close to them until OLED came out. THey are a little more expensive($1500 Sony 65) than others. Best picture for a person who sees the TV from an angle

[retiredguy123]

Originally Posted by kkingston57

Had a plasma for 10+ years and loved it. Nothing close to them until OLED came out. THey are a little more expensive($1500 Sony 65) than others. Best picture for a person who sees the TV from an angle

I think that plasma TVs have become essentially obsolete because they cost more to make, they are heavier, and the picture is not as bright as an LED backlit screen. OLED TVs produce the best picture, but you need to be careful of screen burn-in, especially if you watch the same channel with a logo for hours at a time.