[OrangeBlossomBaby]

I'm still of the opinion that I'd rather go on a smaller river boat type of cruise, where there are fewer than 250 passengers and typically no one under the age of 30 on board, and much more room (per person) to spread out and social distance EVEN when it's not required.

I don't like being line line for anything, where the person behind me is breathing down my back. I don't care if they're vaccinated or not. I also don't like being pushed up against other people in line so closely that I can smell the stench of their aftershave.

If social distancing of 2-3 feet or more becomes normal, expected, and "what polite people just DO, naturally" then I'll reconsider my opinion. Til then, I'm pretty much done cruising on the mega-ships for awhile.

[JoMar]

Originally Posted by Tmarkwald

I was more referring to the CDC guidance that once vaccinated, and with other vaccinated people, there is no longer any need or risk to socially distance or wear masks.

That's the definitive - That a vaccinated person won't carry the virus and infect another vaccinated person. As stringent as CDC has been, when they say there is no longer any risk once vaccinated, and that the masks are no longer needed, I guess I'll take their word for it.

The vaccination is supposed to protect you from getting very sick or dying...it does not protect you from getting the virus. You can still get the virus and pass it around so your statement is not the definitive. Not wearing a mask around other vaccinated folks is because if you pass it around they won't get seriously sick or die. If someone does not have the vaccine they are vulnerable.

[Tmarkwald]

Originally Posted by JoMar

. If someone does not have the vaccine they are vulnerable.

Then they should stay home or protect themselves.

[Tmarkwald]

Originally Posted by Rosebud1949

mask up in close quarters ... or we will NEVER get rid of this virus.

We've never gotten rid of the common cold.

I'm not running my life scared.

[golfing eagles]

Originally Posted by JoMar

The vaccination is supposed to protect you from getting very sick or dying...it does not protect you from getting the virus. You can still get the virus and pass it around so your statement is not the definitive. Not wearing a mask around other vaccinated folks is because if you pass it around they won't get seriously sick or die. If someone does not have the vaccine they are vulnerable.

PLEEEEZEE!!!!!

I have tried a dozen or more times to dispel this myth/rumor. If you are fully vaccinated you CANNOT get the virus, you CANNOT spread the virus, and you CANNOT infect others. Period. PERIOD!!!!! (This does not include the 5% who do not acquire immunity). It is a VACCINE, it was developed to protect people from contracting COVID, not to mitigate any illness they acquire, and hence end the pandemic. Does anyone really think we spent trillions of dollars just to make some individuals less ill????? Nonsense. And yet this myth keeps getting repeated and repeated on this forum and elsewhere. (FYI, this myth started with an article in an obscure medical journal that suggested a vaccinated individual could come in contact with droplets from an infected individual and harbor them in their oropharynx for an hour or so and during that time possibly spread the virus. Their only conclusion was that more research was needed, but the whole premise was somewhat unlikely.)

Bottom line, the previous statement by T was DEFINITIVE

[Tmarkwald]

Originally Posted by golfing eagles

PLEEEEZEE!!!!!

I have tried a dozen or more times to dispel this myth/rumor. If you are fully vaccinated you CANNOT get the virus, you CANNOT spread the virus, and you CANNOT infect others. Period. PERIOD!!!!! (This does not include the 5% who do not acquire immunity). It is a VACCINE, it was developed to protect people from contracting COVID, not to mitigate any illness they acquire, and hence end the pandemic. Does anyone really think we spent trillions of dollars just to make some individuals less ill????? Nonsense. And yet this myth keeps getting repeated and repeated on this forum and elsewhere. (FYI, this myth started with an article in an obscure medical journal that suggested a vaccinated individual could come in contact with droplets from an infected individual and harbor them in their oropharynx for an hour or so and during that time possibly spread the virus. Their only conclusion was that more research was needed, but the whole premise was somewhat unlikely.)

Bottom line, the previous statement by T was DEFINITIVE

Exactly, and that 5% that the vaccine didn't work for seem to be the thread people use to say 'the vaccine doesn't really protect you....yada yada'.

So, simple math (theoretical)

- every is vaccinated, but in 5% of the people the vaccine doesn't work

- someone in the 5% group gets Covid and somehow manages to give it to someone else in the 5% group (we're already getting into the unlikely field here)

- of those that catch Covid, a great percentage are asymptomatic and don't know they even have Covid - so outbreaks in vaccinated people are about as common as one of us winning the Powerball lottery

[golfing eagles]

Originally Posted by Tmarkwald

Exactly, and that 5% that the vaccine didn't work for seem to be the thread people use to say 'the vaccine doesn't really protect you....yada yada'.

So, simple math (theoretical)

- every is vaccinated, but in 5% of the people the vaccine doesn't work

- someone in the 5% group gets Covid and somehow manages to give it to someone else in the 5% group (we're already getting into the unlikely field here)

- of those that catch Covid, a great percentage are asymptomatic and don't know they even have Covid - so outbreaks in vaccinated people are about as common as one of us winning the Powerball lottery

And here is some more food for thought that I don't believe has been studied:

To draw an analogy to recombinant hepatitis B vaccine, which is also about 95% effective----when a person who was in the 5% that did not acquire immunity gets re-vaccinated, about 90% of them acquire immunity. Would make an interesting COVID study, could probably get a few million in federal grant $$$.

[Tmarkwald]

Originally Posted by golfing eagles

And here is some more food for thought that I don't believe has been studied:

To draw an analogy to recombinant hepatitis B vaccine, which is also about 95% effective----when a person who was in the 5% that did not acquire immunity gets re-vaccinated, about 90% of them acquire immunity. Would make an interesting COVID study, could probably get a few million in federal grant $$$.

Great point!

Another aspect is - what if the person gets Moderna, but did not get immunity. So, they vaccinate with Pfizer?

Who's to say that maybe the 95% group is different between vaccines?

There is a study going on in the UK, where people were given two DIFFERENT vaccines to boost the immunity even farther..

U.K. Expands Its Mix-And-Match Covid-19 Vaccine Trial To Include Moderna And Novavax Shots

[golfing eagles]

Originally Posted by Tmarkwald

Great point!

Another aspect is - what if the person gets Moderna, but did not get immunity. So, they vaccinate with Pfizer?

Who's to say that maybe the 95% group is different between vaccines?

There is a study going on in the UK, where people were given two DIFFERENT vaccines to boost the immunity even farther..

U.K. Expands Its Mix-And-Match Covid-19 Vaccine Trial To Include Moderna And Novavax Shots

Interesting study. I wonder if they will do the "salvage" study as well.

For example, the two main chemotherapy regimens for advanced Hodgkin's are MOPP and ABVD. Both are 90+% effective alone. When both regimens are given simultaneously, they are 96% effective. But, if you let the patient fail on one of them and then start the other, you get 99% efficacy. So sometimes more all at once is not better

[kbace6]

Originally Posted by dougjb

Yes....masks are such an incredible burden. It is simply the hardest thing anyone could possibly imagine to do. Don't you just find it so difficult to put one loop over one ear and the other loop over the other ear? How dare anyone suggest we should give a damn about our fellow human beings! After all, it is our right to play a part in infecting others with a potentially deadly disease. Don't you just love showing others how little you care about them?

No problem getting a vaccine, but if I have to wear a mask after paying thousands of dollars to go on a cruise, that is a non-starter. Why would anyone have to were a mask if everyone on the cruise ship has been vaccinated? And even if a few folks got on the ship without a vaccination, why would I care if I have already been vaccinated? If someone WANTS to wear a mask out of an abundance of caution, they are free to do so without ridicule from me, but I will not be joining them. We already have a cruise booked for the fall, but will cancel it for sure if masks are required to cruise.

[Marine1974]

There is no evidence the vaccination will prevent you from getting or giving the virus to others . Provide your proof or believe what you want , but most people
are not buying the theory of vaccinated people can not spread Covid 19 .

[kbace6]

Originally Posted by Marine1974

There is no evidence the vaccination will prevent you from getting or giving the virus to others . Provide your proof or believe what you want , but most people
are not buying the theory of vaccinated people can not spread Covid 19 .

Marine1974. Never said anything to the contrary and do not dispute anything you said. You have clearly made assumptions about my position. Vaccines are only about 95% effective. That's enough for me. Again, if you want to wear a mask, go for it. I will not wear one on a cruise ship. If I want to be forced to wear a mask, I can live my life as I and we all have for over a year now. I am simply saying that if I am paying big $$$ to go on a cruise, it will NOT include a mask.

[J1ceasar]

Thank you for this link, it was interesting as well as the comments by the cruise industry. Of course everyone wants to be safe but a big? Still is what will happen once one passenger or a worker get sick even if a vaccinated after traveling to another Port destination? Will everybody have to stay on board for an extra two weeks? I have not been a cruiser for a while but I have friends who do and I worry for them

[J1ceasar]

As you said in others: Vaccines are only about 95% effective. That's enough for me. Again, if you want to wear a mask, go for it. I would hate to be in that 5% and be sick and symptomatic. Is it enough of a risk for you or me?

[Tmarkwald]

Originally Posted by kbace6

No problem getting a vaccine, but if I have to wear a mask after paying thousands of dollars to go on a cruise, that is a non-starter. Why would anyone have to were a mask if everyone on the cruise ship has been vaccinated? And even if a few folks got on the ship without a vaccination, why would I care if I have already been vaccinated? If someone WANTS to wear a mask out of an abundance of caution, they are free to do so without ridicule from me, but I will not be joining them. We already have a cruise booked for the fall, but will cancel it for sure if masks are required to cruise.

I think you speak for 90% of us cruisers...There will always be 10% Chicken Littles!
The CDC says vaccinated people can congregate with no social distancing or masks...
That defines a cruiseship in my book.